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-   -   Chiefs "The Chiefs offense is better without Tyreek Hill" (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=345711)

Hoover 10-24-2022 08:10 AM

I think some credit should Nagy's way too. He and Patrick really seem like the perfect pair.

Marcellus 10-24-2022 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16550400)
First time in 22 years that the Chiefs had two WR's go over 100 yards.

Holy shit this is surprising to say the least. Figured Mahomes would have accomplished this with Hill and somebody else before now.

ThaVirus 10-24-2022 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16550027)
not really, we're 7 games in

can easily point to any 0 TD game to counter that

They're extreme statistical outliers. A 0 TD game is not a statistical outlier.

Hammock Parties 10-24-2022 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16550495)
They're extreme statistical outliers. A 0 TD game is not a statistical outlier.

over the course of a season these things balance out - for instance, kelce getting robbed of a TD yesterday, and dropping one in Indy

i'm here to tell you, you can have full confidence in the pace of the kansas city chiefs, your favorite football team

tredadda 10-24-2022 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16549787)
Man and they have all kinds of options this offseason too.

Skyy is going to start emerging next year, and may emerge more late this year.

JuJu has already taken a pay cut to play here, he may take a sweetheart deal to stay. MVS is under contract.

Mecole is a FA, will probably get a deal elsewhere to net us a comp pick. Watson is a FA but will almost certainly want to stay, and stay cheap.

The Chiefs have more draft picks to continue building that unit, and Veach's draft picks have been stellar the last two years. Andy Reid could use a #1 elite option but if you give him more speed he's going to be just fine.

Travis Kelce looks so damn good I'd be willing to trade Noah Gray, but keeping him and Fortson keeps that unit elite. Blake Bell is a luxury we can afford to part with, but the Chiefs love him so who knows.

Gotta either keep McKinnon or get a similar RB who can kill in the passing game.

If they land a WR in the 1st who can wreck man coverage, it's over for the next two years folks.

Just a good time to be a Chiefs fan.

I don’t think they keep Bell at this point. He isn’t very valuable at this point. I disagree about an elite WR. They don’t need one. I would rather funnel money and draft picks on strengthening the OLine. The two games KC lost this year was because Mahomes was under constant pressure. When he isn’t pressured constantly he torches elite defenses with the WRs we currently have.

VAGOMO 4 LIFE! 10-24-2022 08:20 AM

More juicy stats

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only eight games since 1981 have seen a team put up offensive DVOA above 100%.<br><br>Kansas City had 103.5% today.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a></p>&mdash; Aaron Schatz �� (@FO_ASchatz) <a href="https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1584391738109485056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

mlyonsd 10-24-2022 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16550400)
First time in 22 years that the Chiefs had two WR's go over 100 yards.

Wow.

tredadda 10-24-2022 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 16550438)
Do you think the issue that game was WRs, gameplan, or OL?

IMO, the biggest issue that game was OL followed by gameplan.

It’s absolutely the OLine. Give Mahomes time and he will shred a defense. If he’s constantly running for his life he isn’t nearly as effective.

RunKC 10-24-2022 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16550492)
Holy shit this is surprising to say the least. Figured Mahomes would have accomplished this with Hill and somebody else before now.

I’m sure Tyreek and Kelce together have done it a few times over the years but Kelce is a TE even though he’s basically a big WR in this offense

Lzen 10-24-2022 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16550591)
If he’s constantly running for his life he isn’t nearly as effective.

Absolutely! And that's true of every QB ever.

Direckshun 10-24-2022 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 16550462)
I don't know about trading Noah Gray. He's only in his 2nd year and the Chiefs seem to really like him. He's developing into a decent TE. Why would you trade him?

I wouldn't, but if there's a tackle or some other contributor to be had, I'd consider it.

Kelce's going to be playing at an elite level for the entirety of Gray's rookie contract. It's a small step back at TE (with Bell returning anyway) to take a large step forward at somewhere more critical.

Just thinking out loud, really.

crispystl 10-24-2022 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16550492)
Holy shit this is surprising to say the least. Figured Mahomes would have accomplished this with Hill and somebody else before now.

It's crazy, but it's sort of a skewed stat since Tony G and Kelce took so many targets.

scho63 10-24-2022 10:11 AM

No one has said this that I am aware of but I think the trade has worked out PEREFCT for BOTH the Chiefs and Tyreek.

He is getting the MAJORITY of attention in Miami per his request along with the Dolphins and the Chiefs are able to have MORE dependable WR's that are weapons aside from Kelce and Hill from last year. We have SO many weapons.

This trade was a WIN-WIN

Hammock Parties 10-24-2022 10:13 AM

last 17 games hardman has 2 more TD than tyreek

he reached his point of diminishing returns

penguinz 10-24-2022 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16550789)
last 17 games hardman has 2 more TD than tyreek

he reached his point of diminishing returns

MH had a better YAC in 2021 than Hill. MH is not the level he needs to be at but he is much better than 99% of people here think.

Hammock Parties 10-24-2022 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16550835)
MH had a better YAC in 2021 than Hill. MH is not the level he needs to be at but he is much better than 99% of people here think.

not really about mecole

just shows that andy gonna andy as long as he has patrick

this offense was demonstrably worse last year as a top heavy endeavor, and defenses had adjusted

R Clark 10-24-2022 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16550789)
last 17 games hardman has 2 more TD than tyreek

he reached his point of diminishing returns

Lol that’s crazy

VAGOMO 4 LIFE! 10-24-2022 11:06 AM

I’d re sign Hardman 3/30

Hammock Parties 10-24-2022 11:21 AM

3.35 yards per snap for MVS and JUJU yesterday.

League leader is around 2.2 for the year.

JohnnyHammersticks 10-24-2022 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16549383)
If the OL holds up it's the best in the league. Their performance is absolutely vital.

The way Mahomes looks when he has an actual pocket to step up into should keep other teams coaches up at night. He looked as good as I've ever seen him look yesterday. Completely unstoppable. It was interesting reading yesterday's 49ersWebZone.com game thread to see their reaction. Some were calling him the best QB in NFL history, and if he gets the time he got yesterday there's just no way to deal with him.

If our O-line plays even 90% as well as they did yesterday for the rest of the season we're winning the SB.

dirk digler 10-24-2022 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16549811)
tyreek never gets that wide open on the game-clinching TD (bracketed wherever he goes in critical situations), and tyreek never gets that coverage on the 3rd and 11 MVS ripped off

yes, we are better, period, because those plays are now open, and they weren't last year

The plan was to have Hill + JJSS and I believe the results would be close to the same.

That TD that Hill got against the Bills in the playoffs was single coverage and he smoked their entire D.

carcosa 10-24-2022 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks (Post 16551381)
The way Mahomes looks when he has an actual pocket to step up into should keep other teams coaches up at night. He looked as good as I've ever seen him look yesterday. Completely unstoppable. It was interesting reading yesterday's 49ersWebZone.com game thread to see their reaction. Some were calling him the best QB in NFL history, and if he gets the time he got yesterday there's just no way to deal with him.

If our O-line plays even 90% as well as they did yesterday for the rest of the season we're winning the SB.

I'm looking at that game thread and some of those 49ers fans call him "Mcdomes," which is a nickname i've never encountered before. What's the etymology there? After that Super Bowl are they somehow under the impression that he only plays well in domes...?

JohnnyHammersticks 10-24-2022 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcosa (Post 16551409)
I'm looking at that game thread and some of those 49ers fans call him "Mcdomes," which is a nickname i've never encountered before. What's the etymology there? After that Super Bowl are they somehow under the impression that he only plays well in domes...?

Don't know, lol. I wondered the same thing.

Hammock Parties 10-24-2022 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 16551401)
The plan was to have Hill + JJSS and I believe the results would be close to the same.

That TD that Hill got against the Bills in the playoffs was single coverage and he smoked their entire D.

JJSS smoked their entire D ROFLROFLROFL

literally he smoked the Bills and then smoked the 49ers

HC_Chief 10-24-2022 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcosa (Post 16551409)
I'm looking at that game thread and some of those 49ers fans call him "Mcdomes," which is a nickname i've never encountered before. What's the etymology there? After that Super Bowl are they somehow under the impression that he only plays well in domes...?

Probably due to the way his helmet fits. It makes him look like he has a huge head.

ThaVirus 10-25-2022 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16550497)
over the course of a season these things balance out - for instance, kelce getting robbed of a TD yesterday, and dropping one in Indy

i'm here to tell you, you can have full confidence in the pace of the kansas city chiefs, your favorite football team

Right, they will balance out as the season goes on (and you will see that), but we're talking about on pace stats 7 games into the season.

Kelce's played 134 games and has only ever had that 1 game with 4 TDs. Kelce is not likely to hit 17 TDs and Hardman is even less likely to hit 12 TDs.

ThaVirus 10-25-2022 08:04 AM

I've got another one. According to the NFL.com power rankings, the Chiefs have a league-best 22 plays of 25+ yards this season, compared to the 14 they had in the entirety of the 2021 season.

We traded away Tyreek Hill and are, apparently, even more explosive.

Chris Meck 10-25-2022 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16552937)
I've got another one. According to the NFL.com power rankings, the Chiefs have a league-best 22 plays of 25+ yards this season, compared to the 14 they had in the entirety of the 2021 season.

We traded away Tyreek Hill and are, apparently, even more explosive.

Because:

Defenses now have to pick their poison.

When it was only Kelce or Hill to worry about, you could play 2 deep, because we couldn't beat you with anybody else. (Although we still could beat you anyway, most of the time.)

You wanna play two deep now? No problem.

ALSO-get a load of the new backshoulder stuff! i'd been wondering why we didn't do that stuff with even our crappy bigger receivers we had in the past. Now, with Juju and MVS the back shoulder stuff is on the menu. Just another way to kill opposing defenses.

None of our current WR's are Hill, but all of them do pieces of Hill's game well.

Chris Meck 10-25-2022 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16552936)
Right, they will balance out as the season goes on (and you will see that), but we're talking about on pace stats 7 games into the season.

Kelce's played 134 games and has only ever had that 1 game with 4 TDs. Kelce is not likely to hit 17 TDs and Hardman is even less likely to hit 12 TDs.

The thing with the 'on the pace' argument is that we just went through the toughest part of the schedule with all new WR's and a struggling OL due to injuries. (I guess. I hope.)

So now the schedule lightens up quite a bit, along with the new WR pieces obviously becoming more comfortable.

So I don't expect this offense to slow down dramatically.

Hammock Parties 10-25-2022 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16552936)
Kelce's played 134 games and has only ever had that 1 game with 4 TDs. Kelce is not likely to hit 17 TDs and Hardman is even less likely to hit 12 TDs.

this is a post tyreek world where anything is possible

also, you need to consider the stats are being looked at as an aggregate

it is HIGHLY likely kelce, juju and MVS combine for 22 TD this year, because juju is going to score more than 2 TDs in the last 10 games, and MVS more than 0

i'd say kelce hits 12, juju 6 and MVS 4, conservatively

ThaVirus 10-25-2022 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16553028)
this is a post tyreek world where anything is possible

also, you need to consider the stats are being looked at as an aggregate

it is HIGHLY likely kelce, juju and MVS combine for 22 TD this year, because juju is going to score more than 2 TDs in the last 10 games, and MVS more than 0

i'd say kelce hits 12, juju 6 and MVS 4, conservatively


Well, sure, but that's not what you were saying.

SupDock 01-14-2023 11:34 AM

https://youtu.be/PPHS1SCFAdI

I don’t know how to embed on mobile.

Good watch

Hammock Parties 01-14-2023 11:50 AM

Quote:

Tyreek Hill 2021: 1,239 yards

Travis Kelce 2021: 1,125 yards

Mecole Hardman 2021: 693 yards

Total touchdowns: 20


JuJu pace 2022: 1,200 yards

Kelce pace 2022: 1,343 yards

MVS pace 2022: 896 yards

Total touchdowns pace: 22
Let's revisit, with adjustments for Hardman's injury.

Quote:

Hill/Kelce/Hardman: 3,057 yards, 20 TD

Total targets: 376
Quote:

Kelce/Juju/MVS: 2,958 yards, 17 TD

Total targets: 334
Since it's not a fair comparison here, let's find 40 more targets to even out. Where could we find 40 targets...well hell, how about Hardman's 34?

Quote:

Kelce/Juju/MVS/Hardman: 3,255 yards, 23 TD

Total targets: 368
Notes: Chiefs scored 1 more PPG in 2022 and had over 250 more yards passing.

Thread title: TRUE

RealSNR 01-14-2023 12:53 PM

The Chiefs trading Tyreek for all those draft picks plus cap space is like trading a zit on your face for a free trip to Belize

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 16732775)
The Chiefs trading Tyreek for all those draft picks plus cap space is like trading a zit on your face for a free trip to Belize

yeah! with a hot babe with a great ass and a big rubber glove! Oh wait...

philfree 01-14-2023 01:01 PM

This discussion isn't complete without including McKinnon. I don't think a RB gets as many targets if Hill is on the team. 512 yards and 9 TDs.

Bearcat 01-14-2023 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16732649)
https://youtu.be/PPHS1SCFAdI

I don’t know how to embed on mobile.

Good watch

It's kind of a pain in the ass on a phone... in the youtube app, you have to click share and get the link. Then open in a browser and find the 'full desktop version' option in the browser settings (fortunately, Chrome has finally started remembering the preference), then share and embed as you would on a desktop.

That said... subscribed.


He mentioned in another video that the Vikings have a negative point differential. Hadn't noticed that.... a bit insane for being 13-4.

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 01:12 PM

It seems like it ought to be very clear that this offense is BETTER when it spreads the ball around. less predictable, almost impossible to defend.

Yet people want to go drop a bunch of money on Hopkins or whoever.

No, man. Draft and develop, and keep a diversified offense that can beat you any number of ways. It's better.

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 16732786)
This discussion isn't complete without including McKinnon. I don't think a RB gets as many targets if Hill is on the team. 512 yards and 9 TDs.

You're right. You don't play man against Tyreek Hill, you play zones with deep help. That means defenders are facing the line of scrimmage.

Now, teams are playing man a lot, which means most defenders are turned and running with receivers downfield.

We've got zone beaters all over the place. Mckinnon, Toney, Hardman-and yeah, MVS to some extent-those are the man beaters.

Hammock Parties 01-14-2023 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 16732786)
This discussion isn't complete without including McKinnon. I don't think a RB gets as many targets if Hill is on the team. 512 yards and 9 TDs.

darrel williams disagrees

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16732825)
darrel williams disagrees

Yeah, but Darrel was a plodder. Mckinnon is fast and shifty. Darrel wasn't going to burn your for a long one one a screen or a pass to the flat.

Hammock Parties 01-14-2023 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16732872)
Yeah, but Darrel was a plodder. Mckinnon is fast and shifty. Darrel wasn't going to burn your for a long one one a screen or a pass to the flat.

yes, but as far as pure targets, i don't think that matters in the discussion, which is why i didn't include it

chiefs RB targets didn't change noticeably year over year

philfree 01-14-2023 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16732872)
Yeah, but Darrel was a plodder. Mckinnon is fast and shifty. Darrel wasn't going to burn your for a long one one a screen or a pass to the flat.

McKinnon had more targets, more receptions, more yards and a lot more TDs. He's more of a receiver then he is a RB.

CasselGotPeedOn 01-14-2023 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 16732775)
The Chiefs trading Tyreek for all those draft picks plus cap space is like trading a zit on your face for a free trip to Belize

A real trip to Belize?

R Clark 01-14-2023 01:56 PM

McKinnon has been a blessing and to think he wasn’t signed till way late

Chief Pagan 01-14-2023 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn (Post 16732896)
A real trip to Belize?

With a cherry on top?

Plealize.

Skyy God 01-14-2023 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn (Post 16732896)
A real trip to Belize?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan (Post 16733062)
With a cherry on top?

Plealize.

Again, I will provide plenty of proof of the Belize trip to the mod of my choice to shut you dumb****s up.

ThyKingdomCome15 01-14-2023 03:29 PM

Juju in the slot has been really good as well. He's having one of his better years.

Megatron96 01-14-2023 03:29 PM

More about the 2021 supporting cast, or lack thereof, vs. the 2022 supporting cast, than Hill by himself. Last year, it was Hill, Hardman, and then a bunch of JAGs (or worse). This year, No Hill, but the entire WR room is better, even Skyy, than Kemp, Pringle, DRob, and whoever. And Toney might be a virtual 1-for-1 vs. Hill on all those short- to intermediate routes to convert 3rd downs with his quickness and agility, which is more important than sheer speed anyway.

KCJake 01-14-2023 03:45 PM

What's with all the Belize talk? I've got a buddy headed over there in a month

Megatron96 01-14-2023 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJake (Post 16733132)
What's with all the Belize talk? I've got a buddy headed over there in a month

There is no Belize . . .

Bl00dyBizkitz 01-14-2023 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16733095)
More about the 2021 supporting cast, or lack thereof, vs. the 2022 supporting cast, than Hill by himself. Last year, it was Hill, Hardman, and then a bunch of JAGs (or worse). This year, No Hill, but the entire WR room is better, even Skyy, than Kemp, Pringle, DRob, and whoever. And Toney might be a virtual 1-for-1 vs. Hill on all those short- to intermediate routes to convert 3rd downs with his quickness and agility, which is more important than sheer speed anyway.

Mahomes is having one of his best years too. Hill felt like a crutch the last couple years and he wasn't developing as a QB like he should. Now, his decision making is impeccable, his 10 yard dropkick are nonexistent, he doesn't run from clean pockets nearly as much, he rarely makes mistakes, and yet he's still taking risks and making Mahomes plays on the regular. He's ascended even further, its unbelievable.

Megatron96 01-14-2023 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz (Post 16733222)
Mahomes is having one of his best years too. Hill felt like a crutch the last couple years and he wasn't developing as a QB like he should. Now, his decision making is impeccable, his 10 yard dropkick are nonexistent, he doesn't run from clean pockets nearly as much, he rarely makes mistakes, and yet he's still taking risks and making Mahomes plays on the regular. He's ascended even further, its unbelievable.

Mahomes is definitely having a great year. I'd pump the brakes a little on the 'impeccable' decision-making, but agree with the rest. Helps a ton when he can trust that his receivers will run the right routes and be in the right places, plus catch the ball most of the time as well. Last year it seemed like he'd get frustrated with the WR4/5/6 just failing consistently in those areas, and say to himself, "screw it, where's Kelce/Hill?"

This year, that's happened in a few spots/games, but mostly he's been able to spread the ball around and not get into those mental traps.

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson (Post 16733071)
Again, I will provide plenty of proof of the Belize trip to the mod of my choice to shut you dumb****s up.

why would that shut anyone up? Just post the vaca pics.

tredadda 01-14-2023 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson (Post 16733071)
Again, I will provide plenty of proof of the Belize trip to the mod of my choice to shut you dumb****s up.

Belize it when we see it.

Skyy God 01-14-2023 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16733277)
why would that shut anyone up? Just post the vaca pics.

Already posted some.

Skyy God 01-14-2023 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJake (Post 16733132)
What's with all the Belize talk? I've got a buddy headed over there in a month

I went last year this time with my now former gf.

Posted some pics (with her consent) and the CP rabble claims they were fake or some shit.

tyecopeland 01-14-2023 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 16732800)
It's kind of a pain in the ass on a phone... in the youtube app, you have to click share and get the link. Then open in a browser and find the 'full desktop version' option in the browser settings (fortunately, Chrome has finally started remembering the preference), then share and embed as you would on a desktop.

That said... subscribed.


He mentioned in another video that the Vikings have a negative point differential. Hadn't noticed that.... a bit insane for being 13-4.

From the athletic

Quote:

Minnesota is the league’s most inexplicable assemblage. Since 2000, 57 teams have won 13 or more games in the regular season. The lowest point differential among those teams until the Vikings came along was plus-63 (the 2019 Packers). Minnesota’s point differential is minus-3. Football Outsiders’ weighted DVOA (defense-adjusted value over average weighted to value end-of-season performance more highly) ranks the Vikings 28th in the league. Three of the four teams behind them fired their head coach.

seamonster 01-14-2023 05:34 PM

Why is Belize a humble brag? It's the hairy taint of middle class american vacation destinations. No sloths. Scumbucket beaches. Camden NJ-like crime. Why? I'd take my chances with the jalisco new generation cartel and go with mexico over some shithole like Belize.

But I've got too much love for Tyreek Hill. Too many good memories. You just can't put Hill on a team with a bolistic hothead like eric bieniemy. Playing with fire.

Megatron96 01-14-2023 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster (Post 16733560)
Why is Belize a humble brag? It's the hairy taint of middle class american vacation destinations. No sloths. Scumbucket beaches. Camden NJ-like crime. Why? I'd take my chances with the jalisco new generation cartel and go with mexico over some shithole like Belize.

.

Yes, but apparently Belize is replete with virtual girlfriends

Chris Meck 01-14-2023 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson (Post 16733533)
Already posted some.

WITH the girl in the photo? How'd I miss this?


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