This x 100 :thumb:

On Smith, I agree he's not playing like he was last year, but playing hurt and with a pretty murderous schedule maybe it's not regression. One of the harder things for me is remembering that progression isn't linear. There's a LOT of guys with great rookie years that take a step back year 2 or just never take the step forward. There's a couple on this team that might apply to. Tempting to think it's just all uphill as long as a guy stays healthy but it's not how it works.

But I also think we're overstating his rookie year because of the insane value for a 6RD pick. He was excellent, but still very much a work in progress. He wasn't an All Pro.

He needs to play better, maybe it's a step back this year but I think just as likely it's a ****ling injury and going up against killer DLs.

That play was designed for Smiths strengths and he lost the rep anyway. He has probably 80 lbs on Cunningham and got stood up. Gotta win that rep, man.

Coulda just said 'this'

Yes we did.

The vast majority of OTs need help to their inside. Wylie absolutely does so he can cheat outside a little. He's not getting it and it's exposing his limitations.

I wouldn’t say it’s a MUST. But if I’m Veach I’m eating the 4 mil dead cap on MVS and putting his money towards Juju. He’s becoming a consistent zone beater, and you can tell him and Mahomes are developing a major chemistry. Something that no matter how good of a receiver you bring in you aren’t guaranteed to get

Quentin Nelson has been declining since his rookie year so it happens.

MVS spent plenty of time open yesterday - we just weren't getting the ball to him.

Without reading the replies yet...

Kelce was off last night. That is uncharacteristic and I don't expect we'll that again this year.
When should we expect to see some sacks from Karlaftis?
When should we expect to see some yards and touchdowns from Skyy?

It just feels like he's a long speed guy who'd work if we gave Pat the time, but this OL with these OTs...I don't think he works. Maybe he's clearing guys out but I don't see the openness. But I miss plenty of this stuff so you could be right

Easier to see from the stands than the television. He was there. Maybe being a 3rd read just keeps him off the sheet as much

Everyone wants to trash this OL.

God damn it, the QB needs to take some of the heat on this. Yeah, you got hit a few times. Shit happens.

Stand in there and throw the football to the guys getting open.

I'm going to be honest, if Karlaftis ends up a bust then I'll own that, i liked him as much as everyone. If Moore busts I'm 100% blaming that f***er Toub and his s****y ST coaching. Zero acceptance of being wrong, I will die on this hill.

Yeah don't disagree entirely. But man, those OTs are just...not good. I mean come on.

With Karlaftis work ethic I really don't see bust being a label he could earn. He will take time, absolutely but he will have every bit as good a career as Tamba had IMO.

Pretty much my take, but I also thought he'd do a lot more this year

The QB who threw for 450 yards last night is leading the NFL in passing yards per game and is running this offense?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa59c7159c.png

Mahomes stood inside a collapsing pocket plenty of times last night..Took a few sacks because of it, too...

The Chiefs offense has struggled in 5 of 8 games. That's 5 games against AFC opponents where they scored about 21 points per game, excluding Justin Herbert's Pick 6. The only 3 games where the Chiefs offense looked great was against NFC opponents. That's great for a potential Super Bowl matchup against a NFC team, but what about making it through the AFC playoffs? 21 points per game against AFC opponents is a bad trend.

Mahomes, the OL, the RB's, the receivers, and the coaches need to find a way to have much stronger performance in the later part of this season, especially the AFC playoffs. 21 points per game against the likes of Buffalo, Miami, or Cincy is going to prevent you from reaching a Super Bowl. They're damn lucky the Titans had a struggling backup QB or they probably lose that game last night against Tannehill.

I think Karlaftis will be fine. He is trying to chain moves together, as evidenced by that clip I posted a few days ago. He's about a step slow going from one move to the next, imo.

So he's been about a step to a step and a half away from actually getting some sacks this season. That can be cleaned up.

In the meantime, he's obviously been getting quite a few pressures, and he's been pretty solid vs. the run so far. He even made a couple last night, as I recall. A really nice one where he was supposed to be rushing, but recognized that the ball went to the RB (not Henry), reversed himself and made the tackle for just a two or three yard gain.

He'll be fine.

I mean, he threw 68 passes. Yeah, he had alot of yards.

When we talk about the Chiefs defense, yards don't matter points do.

Now yards matter?

He didn't play a good game and I'd guarantee he'd be the first to tell you so.

You are reading way too much into the breakdown of what conference the teams are from. They have had tight games against teams that typically play them tight with the exception of the Raiders but it was a division game so they are always a challenge.

The fact is they have the best offense in football so if they are "struggling" they are doing that better than any other team in the NFL.

No they aren't perfect, Mahomes isn't perfect, but usually when they aren't scoring its mostly self inflicted. Last night they just got outplayed up front. Mahomes was pressured 22 times. So that's about 1/3rd of his drop backs and he actually stood in the pocket more than usual.

There's a lot of talent on this offense and only one football. Agree, though, that Pat didn't see him a couple times.

Wasn't his "best" game but to say he didn't play a "good" game is absolutely and totally absurd.

And yea 500 total yards of offense and 2 TD's absolutely matters. Just like the 7 total yards the defense gave up after half.

BTW how many drops did KC have? 4?

Now you're using TD's. Yes, scores matter.

But 14 points?

"Best offense in football" is like the tallest midget right now. Tom Brady was correct a few weeks ago when he said there's a ton of ugly football being played in the NFL these days. The Chiefs are part of that, with 5 of 8 games being very ugly performances on the offensive side of the ball. Defenses are playing well this year and refs are messing up the flow up the game for many teams. Combine those two factors and it's a lot of ugly football if you aren't a defensive coach/player right now.

Yards mattered in this game (offensively) because it allowed KC to keep TEN pinned deep in their own half of the field. That matters when that offense is having as much trouble as they were having just moving the ball into scoring position.


As for our defense, i don't know how anyone can complain today about the job they did yesterday. Outside of about 6 plays, they were dominant.

And I call BS on whoever said that stupid shit about Tannehill being able to win that game. He's been marginally better than Willis this season, and Tannehill never escapes the rushes that Willis escaped last night.

Defenses are playing much better this year. Any ideas why?

Exactly. I think the Titans would have, somehow, been worse with a hobbled Tannehill trying to throw the football around.

I'll be curious to see the film review and analysis from Seth Keysor this week to see how much of that was purely on our QB.

People here forget that Justin Houson didn't get a sack until his 12th game of his rookie season, when he broke out for 3. He still only got 5.5 total in 2011.

Thing is, Houston didn't have the spotlight of being a 1st round pick, and the 2011 Chiefs sucked. They had a lot more things to complain about instead of lack of production from a 3rd round rookie pick.

Dude I'm not trying to homer out here or anything but I just cant keep having a conversation where 5 of 8 games the offense has been shit yet almost halfway through the season KC has the most efficient offense in the NFL and its not even marginally close. The gap between KC and Buffalo (#2) is as big as the gap between Buffalo and the #16 offense.

I mean mother of God those other 3 games were really really really powerful by your argument.

Hip.

I need to rewatch, but that's not the description I remember seeing. I thought he held on in the pocket longer than I wanted, but most times, he knew exactly when the pressure was coming and got rid of it.

I was profoundly impressed by Mahomes performance from the couch.

Admittedly I am open to being an idiot here. I was very much not watching for analytical review, I was an emotional wreck.

I'm starting to get interested in the idea of stealing a star FA RB to round out our attack this offseason. Saquan's up for a contract this offseason, Kamara could become available after next year. Our passing attack is unstoppable, imagine if we also had an A running game!

Right now, a top RB would be wasted behind this offensive line. Gotta improve there first.

Points are the only thing that matter IMHO. 21 points per game in the 5 "struggle" games I mentioned against AFC teams. That low rate of scoring is similar to the 20th best offense in the NFL. They scored over 40 points per game in the 3 strong games against the NFC.

I don't think it's too much to hope for 27-30 points per game against AFC opponents. They are capable of this, but they aren't doing it so far this year. Gotta find a way to be better in the later part of the season against AFC teams, especially the playoffs. Do you think 21 points per game will be good enough in playoff games against teams with explosive offenses like Cincy, Miami, or Buffalo?

Shut up about Saquon. I've had wet dreams about him in this offense, and consciously master-bated more than a few times thinking about it, but it will never happen. Can't afford a high-dollar RB on this team for the foreseeable future.

Seemed like on several plays he pumped on a quick strike before moving to different reads. My pure speculation is Tennessee was knocking guys off their routes forcing Mahomes to hold it longer.

Meh, the 30th pick is not going to get you an elite pass-rusher 99% of the time. Basically it was like a second round pick.

Obviously he needs to keep working on his skills, and let's remember that he didn't come into the league in NFL shape.

Next season, after a full NFL training program and diet program, I'm sure he'll be a lot better. I wouldn't bd surprised if we found out that he takes some kind of training for his flexibility as well during the offseason.

Now, if he comes into next season and he's no better than he is right now, I'll be concerned.

I would have to add that Pats will to win is probably unmatched anywhere

The other correlation you could make is the low scoring games have come at home mostly.

Yep, multiple times. I caught myself wondering what his motivation might be? Relative?

Been a fan of his clear back to when he was a WR and know he knows a lot more about the game than I do, and maybe even more than some others on CP.

Yeah, that's been an interesting trend with the Chiefs for a number of years.

That's not exactly true. I saw in another thread we have the capability of extending/adjusting contracts to produce $60-$100m in cap space next year. That's one of the contributing factors to my interest.

Spend the money on the OL & defense. The OL needs to be a hell of a lot better for the run game to improve.

Didn't know this but we had the most drops of any team this year in this game.

oh..Sam McDowell is saying on Petro that ESPN now tracks WR's getting open and MVS is next to last in the league right in front of AJ Green.

:eek:

Wylie blows goats, and nothing you or anyone else can say is going to convince me otherwise.

One quick add on to this thread: there is a lot of blame flying at individual chiefs here, but the other team gets paid too. The titans Dline is crazy deep and good. Their linebackers played incredibly and their secondary was in receivers' pockets all night. For all the hype about the chiefs playing the best defenses in weeks prior, this was the best defense they have played. I tip the cap to Vrabel and the titans. Literally the 90s chiefs.

Barkley isn't running through the non-existent holes, either.

Agree completely. That defense was stout, better than the Bills, 49ers, Chargers.

Tamba was nearly a 100 sack guy.

That's an ABSURDLY high bar.

I mean if the guy manages 50-60 career sacks, that's pretty acceptable to me. I mean if he's Kyle Vanden Bosch you take that 100 times out of 100.

Like most other things in life, it is a confluence of complicated answers full of nuance.

The reality is each team is different and there is a lot going on. The fact is, if 1 team goes to shit it is 3.125% of the league.

Green Bay trading Adams and Rodgers quitting is 3.125% of the league.
Tom Brady finally getting old is 3.125%
Baker being a bag of shit is 3.125%
Russ being a bag of shit (ROFL **** Donk Forever ROFL) is 3.125%
Herbert breaking his self is 3.125%
Dumb**** Carr coming apart at the seams is 3.125%
9ers inexplicably sticking to Trey Lance and trying to **** over Garoppollo is 3.125%
NO - whatever the **** is going on down there is 3.125%
The wheels coming off the Brother****ing Cheatriot ****bags is 3.125%
Indy was somehow better with Carson Wentz (ROFL) is another 3.125%

And those are the easy ones. That's 28% of the league just having weird shit happen.

That’s because most of our games against the AFC have been at home, where the offense is less explosive and always has been in the Mahomes era

And I wouldn’t call our offensive effort against the Raiders “a struggle”. 30 points in a comeback win is pretty good

The offense gained 387 yards against the Bills elite defense, but a red zone turnover and a questionable OPI kept us from scoring more points against a great defense

I agree the offense struggled to move the ball and get rhythm against LAC, IND, and TEN.

Indy was a road game.

And LAC has Derwin James, who has been hell on us since he came into the league.

I'm not a big homer (IMO) and if he stinks I'll say it. I honestly believe barring injury he will be a guy that gets between 6-10 sacks a year for ten plus years. He's not going to be the guy who gets you 15 in one season but I think his relentless effort will make him an above average pass rusher.

The Mahomes effect.

Teams get excited and nervous when they are up late vs Mahomes/chiefs.

Then blow it.

Yeah Indy was our only bad road performance. Still most AFC teams have gotten us at Arrowhead as of now

SF and TB have better defenses than Indy, we just decided to play flat against the Colts for 60 minutes. We made one too many mistakes and it bit us in the ass

Raiders defense is not good, but the Chiefs offense struggled for 90% of the first half. It was ugly and they were down 17-0 at one point. I didn't like the very end of the game with a 3rd and 3 chance to seal it, and Mahomes blew it with a failed deep ball attempt. Just go for the short yardage throw to get your 3 yards. This opened the door for the Raiders to win it. Luckily Carr also messed up by going for a deep ball on 4th and 1, which led to those Raider guys tripping over each other on their routes.

It takes a special effort to find shit to worry about these days, but goddamnit if we have to break down splits until we find the Chiefs struggle on offense at home on 3rd and 7+ in the 3rd quarter of prime time games when the other team is playing on a short week, we'll get there.

I just think we lose track of how rare that is. 8 seasons of 8 sacks each is 64, right?

There haven't been 200 defenders in league history to hit that mark. And to get to 90 like Hali puts you in the top 100. All time.

I mean that's a damn stout 'expectation', IMO.

No idea of the validity but I'm going to use this to say my eyes from the TV are better than yours in rhe stadium DJ! Jk

Do you know what EPA is?

Do you think Buffalo has a better offense? Or Cincy?

Yeah, but I was thinking more in terms of all the other guys we probably have to pay first, before we get to paying a running back $10 million a year.

Just noticed that the Titans ran a lot of 5 man DLine, with a backer immediately shooting in as well. That's six dudes committed to stopping the run on many downs. It really shouldn't be a mystery as to why we had trouble running the ball against that front when they're:
1) really good
2) really big and
3) there's often 5-6 of them.

They play old school trenches football better than maybe any team in the league right now. i didn't really believe it until last night, seeing it on the big screen in the living room by myself. They're playing 80's/90's run-centric football, very similar to the kind the Chiefs played back then.

And KC can't play that kind of football against TEN, period. We don't have the horses.

I think Andy tried to a bit, but quickly realized that was a mistake. We were never going to beat TEN at their own game. Andy needed to play the Chiefs game which is more sophisticated and less about beating the tar out of the opponent and more about outsmarting them.

I'm pretty sure we did just that. Didn't we walk Gay down to play DE a few times?...

Excellent item to pick up on.

Tennessee: always the bridesmaid, never the bride

This is a good point and I think all true.
ALSO:
You'd have to work pretty hard to talk me out of the idea that a LOT of all the crazy shit that happened this offseason isn't all a part of what I'll call THE MAHOMES EFFECT.

As in, "we're not going to be able to get past KC without an elite WR", and "we need to trade for an elite QB or we'll never compete with Mahomes and KC!"

There was a whole lot of that going around, like everyone in the NFL without a top 5 QB lost their minds.

Now maybe it's not Mahomes, but I think the fact that the rest of the league is looking at him and realizing that he's 27 years old has them all doing desperate things.

I was really hoping Kerry Collins would get a ring that year. I like redemption stories. Ah well...

Heard commentators today talking about how the Chiefs abandoned the run and should have at least tried to stick it out. My thinking was, "Why?" If they want to play that nonsense 6-man front, we need to throw the ball every damn down. Running the ball at that point was a wasted down.

"Vrabel is sending the Chiefs a thank you card for every time they run the ball" - One of Collinsworth's better ones

Coach Heck will get that cleaned up/Andy

If he's benching Wylie, then yeah, ok, I'll bite.

Austin Reiter and Wylie have been most two most hated Chiefs. Finally got Reiter gone, but still have %$%#$#$#$# Wylie STARTING, for gods' sake.

You have to at least show that you're willing to run. Now, with KC (and say BUF) you can get away with running a bare-ass minimum number of times because Mahomes/Allen, but you can't just not run the ball ever. Teams that try that get beat, more often than not.

But part of what happened last night is all the errors and turnovers forced Andy's hand at a certain point. About when that INT happened with Kelce late in the third or whenever.

That was about the 6-minute mark in the third, iirc, and i remember checking the clock and realizing the Chiefs really only had about three drives left to score 8 points just to tie, and at least two score (min. 9 pts) to win the game in regulation. At that point, you abandon whatever is extraneous and roll with your best players and your best plays, which for KC are all in the passing game.

If we had a Saquon/McCaffrey/Henry maybe you still do some ground and pound, but the Chiefs don't any such thing. We have a Travis. And an Andy. And a Mahomes. Not one of those guys is an elite RB, obviously, but they comprise the core of one of the greatest air attacks in NFL history.

Sorry, I meant kore.

i dont think its "nuts" to be unhappy with spags


it has been tears of poor tackling, no linebackers until literally bolton and gay


under performing DL , until the last part of that game when they HAD to pass...


Hats off to the D last night. But im not gonna crown anyone for holding the titans to 17.


We just got mcduffie and gay back so hopefully things will be getting better and better.... we NEED to be able to rely on our D like we did last night sometimes... as great as mahomes is, no one can carry that much weight.



The titans are one dimensional with a shitty QB last night. Lets see this D improve and do well against some high powered offenses. I think we have the personnel with mcduffie, bolton, gay, sneed, clark, jones, etc.. dunlap and karlaftis too. So its not a personnel issue if we continue to have issues

thats was funny


and when mahomes did that shot-put pass, i laughed at how giddy collinsworth got over how good it was.

I don't mind running the ball but use your speed and make the other guys fight to make the stop. Running straight ahead headlong into a mass of humanity over and over and over again just makes zero sense. I'm sure in the playbook there are all kinds of holes opening and the play is obviously designed to work, but after 10 attempts at variations on the same thing, you have to hang it up. Jet sweeps and bubble screens aren't necessarily an elixir for this kind of defensive game planning, but it would have been great to see us try a bit more of that and to get the Titans' interior moving laterally more to tire them out if nothing else.

Good post. :thumb:

Wtf are you talking about? Cardinals were the 8th best offense 2021, LAC 4th, BUF 5th, SF 7th, LVR 11th, TB 2nd. That's 6 of the top-10 best offenses from last year that we played to start the 2022 season.

Only two of those offenses scored more than 24 points against our defense.

Only one team has scored more than 29 points.


What are you, blind?