Because the same folks that refuse to concede that Moore was a staggering disappointment this year are scared to actually rely on him next year.

Odd how that works out...

It's the same situation with Thornhill at safety.

You drafted Cook and let him have a year of dipping his toe in.

Well, now it's time to insert him at safety next to Reid and roll forward.

Even if you do that, you still have to invest again with how often 3 safeties are out there.

Next time they yell at me for wanting to trade draft picks.....I'm gonna yell back.

Go find a 3rd safety on the scrap heap. Doesn't seem like a real difficult spot to fill.

I wouldn't extend Gay. I love his energy, and his speed flashes from time to time, but you can't pay everyone and it's one of the more replaceable positions. I don't think we'd miss him some crazy amount. Get Chenal in there and let's roll. Especially after Roquan's new deal - not that Gay gets anywhere near that, but I'm sure it's bumped up the off-ball LB price tag. No thanks.

And that, friends, is why you don't use a 2nd round pick on one.

But I digress...

Eh, if he steps in and replaces Thornhill as the starter, it is what it is. I get it alteast.

I don't think he was meant to be the 3rd safety here for long.

In short we're gonna be very high in rookie snaps again next year.

People keep bringing up Juju as the role that Skyy fits but I don’t think that’s the correct comparison.

It’s Watson. Justin Watson is doing everything that Skyy fits, which is some of the same things Juju does.

Other than Watson has this real problem holding on to the ball.

When JJSS was out, Moore's snaps were the highest, IIRC

You guys think Skyy is going to be running those deep posts and such?

I don't see it, would be nice though.

Have a neatly trimmed beard.

To be fair, Watkins' performance in the few games before the SB run were not any better, but playoff time came & his numbers jumped / was clutch.

I'm hoping they will use Juju in the same manner as Watkins.

Not disagreeing, and I don't really care if he's on the roster or not, but I highly doubt they cut him to save ~$1 million against the cap and then they have to replace him too.

If he doesn't get traded, he's probably still here next year.

Watson's getting 30 routes a game - THAT'S the guy you want Moore to be next season?

Watson's fungible as shit, as is the role he plays. If your plan for our 2nd round pick is to have him be that, then you're all but conceding that Moore was a bad pick in the 2nd round.

And Moore simply isn't that kind of player anyway. He wasn't in college when he was running 80% of his routes underneath. He's a stick/hitch guy. In college he was EXACTLY what JJSS has been this year and he's given no indication that he should be relied on as MORE than that, if he should be relied on as that at all.

Hope you are right as we need to get some production out of our WR's. Hoping with Toney and we get Mecole back we will throw shit at teams they haven't seen.

It just cannot be said enough - JJSS is being used as a glorified TE.

Average depth of target is 7 yards, fellas. Among guys with his volume, there are like 3 dudes who are running shorter routes than he is.

Ignore this idea that he's a Z receiver here - he isn't. he's being used in an extremely specific capacity and it's exactly the role Moore was used in with success in college.

JJSS isn't being used downfield. Moore has never been a downfield receiver either and his toolbox doesn't indicate he should be.

The role JuJu is being used in is Moore's natural fit.

Nope. It was Watson

What Skyy does well is get open quickly the first 5 yards.

That's about it, which is a decent slot but those guys are available every year in FA for not much $$$.

Tbh, prob not much of a market of CEH.

Both of our top two WRs disappear for large stretches honestly. MVS had 9 catches the last 5 games.

As of now, I think the whole WR room other than Toney is easily replaceable. Toney is the only one who has a truly unique skill set and talent/potential.

He is. And that’s why I don’t think Moore can be compared to his role as much as Watson.

Again I think this was by design. Teams are deploying the Fangio cover 2 to cut off the deep ball and Andy has countered with this plan using Kelce/Juju/Gray/Fortson/Bell as well as utilizing McKinnon in the flat and it has worked beautifully.

We’re killing teams in the flat and middle intermediate and they can’t stop it.

This is bizarre. Moore’s college tape shows him on the outside catching along passes as a vertical receiver.

Some things yes. But I think Watson is his ideal role.

If you can't replace Juju with Skyy in year 2, what exactly did you draft him in the 2nd round for?

To play Justin Watson’s role, which is the 3rd most snaps at WR this year.

If you listen to the pod in the OP, Veach was a big fan of Watson at the senior bowl. Didn’t get him, so he brought him in last February before FA.

Nate himself said it was their best sneaky acquisition that helped them win the division.

Watson was signed to a futures deal guys. Expectations were low. They didn’t expect him to be this good. As Nate pointed out, Watson cooked JC Jackson in the 2nd game of the year. He’s done a nice job. Patrick was even surprised with how fast Watson was in the off-season.

Skyy isn’t getting Watson’s snaps

So Watsons snaps went up when JJSS went down (along with Hardman) and it was during that time that Moore got the most snaps of the year, then as they came back his went down.

Yes, Skyy beat alot of north dakota state CB's on the outside, he's not likely doing that in the NFL.

So the 2nd round WR we drafted is behind the future's pick FA we signed. That's not the most ideal situation.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it sure seems like KC keeps drafting slot/gadget guys in the 2nd round (Hardman/Moore) instead of trying to find an X type receiver for the first time ever in the Reid era.

Look at the numbers. He was used overwhelmingly as an underneath receiver. Highlights lie - the stats don't.

And if Watson is your goal for him, that's a bad pick in the 4th round, let alone the 2nd.

3rd among WRs means 4th among targets and 5th if Hardman is healthy.

You don't draft a 5th option in the second round.

Brett Veach clearly does

Only if he missed on the pick.

So which is it, Run?

Was Moore a good pick or should he be replacing Justin Watson next year?

Because it can't be both.

He strikes me as a guy not totally driven by money. He likes it here and he likes winning. Playing with Mahomes he will take a fair deal and stay. That's the way he sounds when he's been asked. I am sure he's aware that we won't blow the top of the market on him. We already put that out there with Hill getting traded.

I just looked and there’s another target you didn’t mention. Noah Gray. 597 snaps this year. More than Watson and 4th behind Kelce, Juju and MVS.

I think that proves the whole “Andy countering cover 2 with bigger intermediate weapons and McKinnon” theory.

But yes I agree that Skyy should have done more this year, but Watson proved his value this year. Beating JC Jackson in week 2 for a TD really upped his value and earned trust from Patrick.

Need to see what Skyy does next season though.

A 'fair deal' still meets or exceeds Christian Kirk's contract.

We shouldn't be paying that for a wealthier Jarvis Landry.

You really think someone is gonna offer him a Christian Kirk contract?

I think he'll end up getting a BETTER offer than Kirk got.

I don't think his agent takes the call from anyone offering less.

Juju turned down a $14 million contract with Baltimore to come here. I think he would do a team friendly deal.

JMO

Because he felt KC set him up better to rehab his value and become a more attractive FA target.

Taking a 1 year deal to better position yourself in the FA market isn't evidence that he'll take a sweetheart deal to stay. It's quite the opposite.

Plus, I wouldn’t take much away from any of his public statements.

He’s playing it absolutely right with his comments. He should say he loves it here and wants to stay. Badmouthing the Chiefs and Reid hasn’t worked out too well for other guys.

Sounds like he made a really good decision last offseason. I hope similar players see that and follow his lead.

He had to know that Baltimore is not the place a wide receiver goes to maximize future earnings.

MVS + CEH + 5th = Hopkins?

Man......nah, no thanks on that.

I'm pro JJSS if it's reasonable, but damn.

Maaan, i just don't see it.

If I remember correct, Spotrac has JJSS Calculated Market Value at $14.6M AAV, and Kirk is getting $18M AAV... so it's not far off.

I think Baltimore even calls the position "Wide Blocker" now.

Wanna bet that Spotrac didn't have Kirk's AAV any higher than $14.6 million heading into LAST offseason?

So would McKinnon be listed under 'tight receiver' under a similar naming scheme?

Tailreceiver? Halfreciever?

No argument there, but I don't think that the Jags making a move that made sense to literally nobody in the footaball world is anything that anyone could account for, nor something that will happen 2 years back to back.

The market overadjusted, and you're already seeing actions occur to adjust it back (The AJ Brown trade being one such action)

I'm not saying Spotrac is a soothsayer, but I am saying that usually they provide a pretty solid jumping off point.

Here's the thing though, as much as everyone jumps for joy with the "the cap is rising" stuff, they fail to mention that player salaries do as well.

Yup.

It's why I caution folks against using the 'available cap space' approach.

Look at where we are relative to the league. And then look at where we are in terms of players under contract for next season.

Because the cap going up by 15% means that every agent in the world is gonna start with 2022PlayerX+15% as his opening salvo.

Those guys do this for a living - they ain't stupid.

If we have $40 million in cap space and there are 20 teams in the league who have more than that (or around that and 5 more players under contract than we do), then we're still not going to be in a position to be major players in the FA market.

The only ENORMOUS advantage we have over everyone else when it comes to the rising cap is that our All-Universe Quarterback is under contract for a decade at figures that would be nearly manageable under the present cap figures.

The surplus value built into his deal is going to be so absurd as to almost require that we go back to the table with him at some point in the next 3-5 years like we did with Kelce this year.

I'm guessing they tear up his deal and do a new one in 3 or 4 years, right? YOu pretty much have to.

Watson only has the 3rd most snaps, because Hardman's been out, JJSS missed some time, and Toney got injured. Watson had 108 snaps through the first 8 games of the season. That's 14 snaps a game. Hardman got hurt and for some reason Watson started playing a ton and still did jack shit.

"Best sneaky acquisition" lmao, stfu.

What is everyone's deal with MVS? Sheesh.

Still not crazy about either guy. We will be spending $25m - $30m on a slow guy who is more of a possession WR and a fast guy who can’t do much else. I don’t want to hear that we can’t afford a WR1. Pay the money for a WR1. Use the draft to fill in everybody else. I’m good with skyy, Toney, Watson and a relentless focus on finding good WRs in the draft. I like juju but I can’t fathom resigning the guy for big money in a wr room that lacks a wr1.

I don’t see a problem with Juju getting $15-18 million on a 3 year deal. It benefits both parties.

Year 1-low cap hit
Year 2-medium high cap hit
Year 3-high cap hit/can cut and save money

Chris Jones and Orlando Brown Jr extensions push immediate cap hit money out. The problem is wanting to trade for Brian Burns and blow $30 million a year on him.

One thing they could probably do is appeal to his competitive nature.

It's not easy to ask a competitive person to give you some of his money to go sign players. But it's pretty easy to prevent that same competitive person from asking you for MORE money if it prevents you from signing players.

In that sense, just having numbers in black ink should work to the Chiefs advantage.

But they have to sate Mahomes in the process. They could give him a raise, yeah. But I think he'd probably be just as content if they tell him "Yeah Pat - we hear you, but we can finish DE1s deal at X dollars and WR2s deal at Y dollars and we kinda need Z dollars to make that happen..."

And because he's a psychopath, the former's probably just as good as the latter to him.

Yeah, the number of snaps he gets is a knock on a wr room not a compliment to his value. That being said I love the guy on the bottom of the rotation for cheap.

There are very few people who can do what Brian Burns can do.

There are alot who can do what JJSS can do at a fraction of that cost. But carry on.

For a WR5, vet minimum guy, he’s been a killer FA acquisition.

21 YPC is nothing to sneeze at.

Chris Jones’ dad told me before the Titans AFCCG that Mahomes would take less than fair market value so the Chiefs could retain him. Dude asked whether I was a reporter, lol.

No reason to think he doesn’t continue to do so. Pat gonna be the first NFL billionaire.

C'mon man.....that didn't ****ing happen.

I don’t Belize it either

We’ve tried to find that guy for awhile but haven’t. Jehu Chesson, Demarcus Robinson, Byron Pringle, Cornell Powell. And now apparently Skyy Moore.

People can point to that, but the data does not prove it right.

First, nobody should expect pat to do this. And good chance it’s wishful thinking. But man that would be a hell of a thing if mahomes decided to do this for us. He has such a unique contract that he can actually do it since each year is loaded with roster bonuses.

It would be mostly unprecedented. But the dude has a chance to build a superpower and keep a few guys he really likes. Would he sacrifice a few million to get him a stud of a weapon? Dude is so competitive and loves his teammates so much I can’t help but wonder if it’s actually in the cards

It absolutely happened. I was off by one slot on where Jones was drafted and he corrected me. Was within $1-2M of his son’s guaranteed contract number.

He and Jones’ agent were at the Lot J tailgate. Quality spread, good party.

TB12 took less, but the Pats tended to not spend up to the cap.

CHunt doesn’t seem to have that problem.

No one Belize you.

I’m mostly with you. I think we’ve proven we’re not very good at finding hidden WR1 gems. But jjss doesn’t solve that. He’s a possession WR with a huge target share on an offense that opens him up for short stuff. We’ve brought in lots of speed guys, but we haven’t tried as much with possession guys.

I get it.

You people are lame AF, so it sounds unBelizeable.

So because they haven't been able to find one in UDFA and the ass end of hte draft, they need to pay JJSS 18 mil a year to do it?

I mean hell, Pringle had 600 yards and 6 TD's last year. They did find it, the data shows they did.

The data shows Sammy Watkins didn't even do that in his tenure here.

It’s gonna come down to money. It always does. If Juju can accept a $14-15 million avg contract that has incentives to get to $20 million then I’m game.

Bc if he hits those incentives, it means he’s balling in the playoffs and leading us to a SB like Sammy did in 2019.

You don't find "hidden gems' late in the draft very often. Its mostly luck.

If you want a legitimate WR or a legitimate DE or a legitimate insert position, you are gonna have to draft them early.

We just did that with a WR last year and now we don't want to play him. Seems like the formula for success.

Is this actually true? I know he signed market rate deals which is essentially a discount. But did he actually give back money that was in his contract?

We should definitely pass final judgement on a player based on his rookie season.

Sounds like a good gameplan

I'm the one that wants to insert him into the offense next year and play. You're the one that wants to sign JJSS to suck up his snaps.

You're right, you shouldn't judge him.

Pringle had a down year and is a FA.

We could very well bring him back for vet minimum and replace JJSS’ production with him, Skyy, and a draftee.

Deiter today said he practiced it two years ago.

Brady took team friendly, below market deals.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...-through-years

Honestly, Pats contract doesn't matter to me. If he wants to be the highest paid ever when his contract comes up, then I'd run to the table to do the deal. If he wants to take a discount, I'd run to the table to do the deal.

It would be cool if he did take less than fair market value, but I don't care if he wants to be paid what he's worth because he's worth every single cent.