BUF beat KC in the regular season in 2022, with a rookie OC. And it could've been much worse than a 4-point loss, luckily they fumbled the ball inside our 20-yd line.

I don't think you want to compare AJ Brown and MVS side-by-side.

One guy was 4th among all WRs in total receiving yards, the other is 55th.

One was tied for 3rd among all WRs in receiving TDs (11), the other 111th, with 2.

One caught 59 1st downs for 10th overall, the other caught just 32 for 55th overall.

AJ Brown is a real top tier WR, MVS is . . . not.



Oh, so where were you going then? I just took a shot in the dark.

But here’s the thing. At every stretch we have waited for a crisis to finally address. Of course you have to throw a ton of resources when you need an entire WR room with 4 games who would actually be used.

We’re not plugging in holes. We’re fixing ENTIRE offensive units. We wait for craters and then we react by throwing lots of stuff at it. We’d be in a different spot if we didn’t wait 5 years to develop a single WR. We maybe couldve mitigated the Super Bowl disaster if we hadn’t ignored the interior OL for years. And now we are talking about a bandaid left tackle and shifting the LT we signed to play RT.

AJ Brown, second round pick.

The argument is that The Chiefs are complacent with JAG receivers. The counter argument is, and I think you're well aware and are just being a dick about it, is that we have spent two second round picks and a third rounder (on Toney, a 2nd year first round pick).

The argument that they're content with JAGS because we didn't spend a mint on a market value #1 or first round pick(s) when reality is that the top receivers in the league come from all over the place in the draft.

Brown, Adams, Hill, Diggs, all statistically top five, all from rounds other than the first.

The Chiefs are not 'complacent' or 'content with JAGS'. This is a bunch of bullshit.

We have a young corps, and unproven. You want to talk about that, cool. You want to dismiss them as JAGS, **** off. It's dishonest, and you know it.

When you have Hill, and you drafted Hardman, then other units were more in need, so the WR room got late round picks and reclamation projects.

It's a matter of resources. Other areas were in more urgent need. Now, Hardman never really developed, and if you want to bitch about that, that's fine. He is pretty much the same guy as the day he was drafted. Whatever. DK Metcalf, blah, blah.

Fisher and Schwartz both had career altering/ending injuries. The interior of the line wasn't strong. So that was priority. If you think that was a mistake, then I don't know what to tell you.

The defense was on a downward trajectory, and if you think you'd rather need to score 40 every game to win, I also don't know what to tell you. It's still football, for ****'s sake.

You keep complaining about the secondary and how much they're throwing at it, but it's mostly been late round picks. I mean, it's a first, a second, and then nothing higher than a 4th. You really think those 7th round picks were going to land us a stud WR?

You said the LB corps was a problem, but now we're investing too heavily on the defense?

Can you agree with YOURSELF on anything other than that the WR corps is a bunch of JAGS? Because that's the only consistent point I see you make, and I find that ridiculous in May, because we have Toney and Skyy in year two and Rice in year one but all are first or second round picks. So no, they're not proven producers, but claiming they're JAGS right now is bullshit.

If you think somehow that you can address areas of need NOW and predict things like Fisher and Schwartz both shooting shit at the same time, then maybe you should open a psychic hotline.

Well, I don't think I said that KC is complacent with JAG WRs. I think i said that we have a group of WRs comprised of unknowns and some JAGs, MVS included in the latter, due to his exceptional speed.



And I'm not trying to be a dick about it, if i were, I'd be calling you a bunch of names, shitting on your posts, etc. Which I clearly have not done.

I'm just advocating for a different approach than the one you're advocating. mostly politely. And you know why.

And I've been pretty positive about the Rice pick. I've just been cautious about predicting how well he'll perform in 2023, after personally completely missing the mark with Skyy.

Chiefzilla's argument is that they're complacent. You seemed to be harping in on his side of the argument, and I might've assumed so due to the Dhop thing. So if not, I apologize.

It's a young WR corps. It's smart to do this while Kelce is still Kelce. If two of the three younguns pan out, we'll be golden. If ONE pans out, we'll be okay. Hell, if none of them pan out, we'll manage, it just won't be spectacular.

I'd put good odds on two of three.

As for Zilla's argument that they don't address problems until they're a problem, well, I think that's kind of absurd; filling an NFL roster is playing whack-a-mole, pretty much, and Veach has done a pretty damned good job.
Not perfect, no-but better than almost anyone else.

I 'splained what I was doing in the DHOp thread pretty early, we even had a little laugh about it. Btw, technically I can keep that up until June 1.:evil:



I wasn't bandwagon-ing on zilla's post; I was responding to one part of your post. Just for fun. Contextually, the hockey game was kind of boring until right after my response.

I think their plan is to have no plan at all. Or in other words, they change it often and stay multiple. If the personnel changes around Mahomes then the team isn’t predictable. Even the talent of tackles is changing. Teams that draft to beat the chiefs will be screwed because we stay winning and change the formula often.


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And there you go. Thank you for making my point for me. That we deprioritize needs on offense. Probably because we just expect Reid and mahomes to carry us.

Our interior OL was a disaster for several years. But we were desperate to fix our defense so we let mahomes get rolled for several years. We knew Wylie was shit for 2 years. But we had to fix our Defense. The minute Watkins became unreliable WR became a need - we threw one damn high-ish pick in FIVE YEARS for a position where you can use 3 or 4 guys and even if you think we tried, every single option failed. As in, could barely get a one year contract with another team.

the fact that you don’t think it was a need even back then just means you don’t think these positions are very important. Hence the point about being complacent. We are ok with it because mahomes can elevate the talent.

There's only so many draft picks to go around my dude. While Veach is one of, if not the best, GM in the NFL he isn't guaranteed to hit on all of them. There are going to be busts. It's a fact of life. We are going to use our draft pics to address the positions of need, if we can, depending on how the board falls. Sometimes it's not going to line up, sometimes we have to go a different direction.

Same thing with FA. There's a salary cap, it's not Madden. We put out the biggest fires first and then worry about the rest. Our team prior to Veach was not deep. We had a few great players and a ton of JAG's. We are turning over the roster as our draft picks and salary cap allow us. These 1 and 2 year deals are buying us time for our draft picks to actually develop, or not.

I keep reading about our lack of receivers in this thread. Like, really? Isn't Reid's offense notoriously difficult to learn and master, due to each receiver needing to know ALL of the responsibilities? Imagine having to learn all of that, plus having to learn to play at an NFL level, and study film. It's a hell of a learning curve. Be patient, we've gotten to 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls and won two of them. I think what we are doing is ok and we need to have a little faith in the process. It seems to be working.

To say NE's defenses were merely solid is not giving them their credit. They were a lot better than anything we've seen in the Mahomes era. Veach poured a ton of resources into it the past two years. Perhaps we'll turn the corner this year in that department.

In the event the Chiefs can field an elite defense this year, it's basically game over for the NFL. Keeping Patrick on the sideline, like saw in the first half of SB57 has always been their one hope.

Except no, I didn't make your point for you. When you have a top five WR and a high draft pick WR you're trying to develop, but gaping holes at other places in your roster, it's not "de-prioritizing" offense to work on those holes. This is an absurd argument on your part. You fill the holes you have CURRENTLY first, and there are only so many draft picks and cap dollars so you do the best you can.

There were offensive line problems, and defensive line problems, and secondary issues, and LB issues, and all of those things were threats to derail the express.

We're only one season removed from Sorensen, Niemann, Reiter, and Cam Irving taking meaningful snaps. Those were big holes. Areas of poor talent. We had Hill, had invested a 2nd in Hardman, and Kelce. Hardman didn't really develop beyond a gadget guy, but you have to play that hand through. You can't say that there wasn't enough talent there in those years.

When Hill left, the intensity of investment changed dramatically, and we'll see what shakes out, but for the thousandth time, there has been a significant investment in the WR room. It's smart to do this now, while Kelce is still Kelce.

Juju and MVS were/are stopgaps while the younguns develop.

It's smart. The OT investment is smart. The defensive investment is smart. We're going to have to play the other elite QB's in the play-offs, and a good defense gives us more of a margin for error.

Your argument is nuts, and all over the place. You were literally arguing that we were in trouble at LB, when that's probably the most stocked position on the roster; but now we've invested too much in the defense. You make no sense.

Man, if this defense is top 5-and it might well be, you KNOW that Andy Reid and Mahomes are going to put a top 5 offense on the field, there's just no way they don't, then I'd happily take my chances with that. Thank you very much.

There is always going to be a crisis when you have to fill every damn position. That is the point I’ve been making. Our defense has had crises almost every single year. We do not have to be elite on both sides of the ball. So yeah, you’ve proven my point. We deprioritized WR even when that meant using mecole as WR2 in 2021 (with him being our only semi major swing in 5 years) to fill a 5-person WR room. We let mahomes get mauled behind a shit interior OL because we had to fix suttons defense. We kicked the can down the road on Wylie and now we may end up protecting mahomes’ blind side with a bandaid. A single competent RT would have let Taylor develop into the LT we intended him to be.

I’m glad we’re making some swings now at WR or OT. But we shouldn’t have to wait for the dam burst to create urgency. You act like we care so much about WR or OL because we took a lot of swings only recently. Well yeah, when you ignore it or do so badly at finding guys for years requiring you to replace the entire unit, you HAVE to. It’s reactive and somewhat out of desperation.

I didn’t say we were in trouble at LB. Not at all. I don’t love that the next wave may look to be putting a huge chunk of our payroll on low positional value spots like interior OL and LB. Areas easily filled by the late draft.

You’re making it clear where you stand. You think these offensive skill positions are lesser importance because Reid and mahomes can carry them. You basically admitted to deprioritizing OL and WR during the tyreek years. And that was fine. Now that our defensive roster is set, you’re still fine with us now looking for back of the roster DBs and DL, but that was not necessary back when our offensive roster was “set.”

If there are a limited amount of resources especially with mahomes new contract, then you must agree that our effort to build the best possible defense our draft can find makes it really difficult to put anything into the offense. If our WRs and OL need time to develop then maybe we shouldn’t wait until the rooms are completely broken and react to crises, and instead proactively take a lot of swings so we don’t have to rush guys out there before they’re ready. instead we are forced to fill these holes. We are considering a bandaid to mahomes blind side when we should have had a RT ready by now. Hell, we shouldn’t have waited a few years to let Wylie keep playing. We had 5 years to find a replacement to tyreek or hell, even Sammy Watkins. Hell to find a single WR3 or WR4. So for a position that takes a long time to develop we threw 5 new guys all at once.

And to add to that, we don’t know how much longer kelce will dominate or even be a model of health. We have to plan for that too.

It comes down to just wanting to spend as much money and draft picks as you can on weapons. They spent it on OL, but that's not good enough, it's gotta be weapons.

You aren't gonna go after alot of weapons when you have Tyreek and Kelce soaking up 250 plus targets a year, you will draft some mid rounders and attempt to develop them. They did that, some hit and were fine, some didn't. They aren't all going to turn into Hill from the fifth to the penthouse.

This whole "have a plan" thing is fine, but the NFL is in 2 year cycles. You can literally clear out your roster in 2 years.

We need to draft a WR every year in the first 2 rounds. Beyond that, the facts are Veach has went heavy on defense the last 2 drafts. We will not reach the defensive levels of NE back in the day but we don't have to, all we need is a top 10 defense. Mahomes does what he does and we get more SB trophies.

Then you gotta build a pipeline and take a lot of swings. Not wait until your whole room falls apart. We react to crises on offense. We don’t proactively fix anything and we’re even content to march out bad to below average pieces.

I don’t think we have to sugarcoat it. Whether we just ignored it like WR or we just made bad calls like OT, we just didn’t hit at these skill positions. None of these guys got any interest after they left. if we’re going to rely heavily on the draft we have to try harder and better.

Wylie got a nice contract with the Commanders, OBJ with the Bengals. So......there goes that.

Most teams 3rd and 4th WR's wash out of the league when they don't get resigned by that team, ours usually end up elsewhere for something.

What would you have preferred to do at WR? Draft more first rounders? Sign more free agents? I'm curious what you would have preferred here

"Build a pipeline" Like what does that even mean?

They drafted a bunch of mid late round guys, a few early rounders. None of them turned into top 10 WR's. Big shock?

I just see a different shade of gray. Now imagine if we secure competent OTs and gave him actual WR weapons. I think we’ll get a taste of that if Toney can stay healthy. How good does your defense need to be? A scary good offense with a top 10 defense is way more scary to me than being too 3 in both.

As good as our offense has been, surprisingly it was offense that held us from our last 2 exits. And just as mahomes will always find a way to cook, I still think you HAVE to beat burrow and josh Allen in the playoffs with offense. It just takes one hot streak to take our defense no matter how good and make them out of sync. Whereas mahomes can consistently carry a defense.

I still say you build as good an offense as you can with our cap limitations to the extent that they don’t push your defense out of the top 10.

Evidence just says youre wrong here man.

The Chiefs 2 SB' years came down to the defense getting stops.

The 3 other years were the defense not getting stops and the offense not being able to score 40.

I'm as much for putting as many weapons around the guy as you can, but reasonably, once he signed his deal, this is what comes with it. It is what it is.

So you acknowledge that we basically treated WR like an afterthought for 5 years.

You’re not going to hit a top 10 pick with every WR. So you gotta take a lot of swings. In the process you might find a WR2 or WR3 or WR4 and they’re all positions that actually contribute. Especially since we acknowledge that it’s harder and takes longer for Reid WRs to develop.

Not only were we content with surrounding tyreek with shit for WR. We had ZERO options in an entire 5-wr room we developed in house when tyreek left. And as you acknowledge we barely even tried.

What we did in 2022 wasn’t a commitment to WR. It was catch up and a little bit of panic because we ignored the position for years.

I think the formula is pretty damn simple and last year proved it.

-1st rd and highest paid FA’s need to be relegated to tackles, pass rushers or corners. Should only deviate from that if a damn good weapon is available.
-a myriad of solid weapons is better than 2 great ones and a pile of shit
-keep reloading the OL at all costs. When Thuney is towards the end, use a 2nd rd pick on a quality G to replace him. Constantly be taking a developmental OL on day 3. Keep looking for the value. Getting a Wanya Morris in rd 3 is a good thing, not a waste.

Lot of people hated the Packers for using this philosophy but honestly it worked out well for them. Not using a 1st on weapons wasn’t the end of the world when your 2nd rd picks were Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, Randall Cobb and Greg Jennings.

The Packers didn’t “waste Rodgers”. They set him up nicely many times. 4 championship game appearances in 11 seasons after that SB isn’t bad.

At some point you gotta blame the QB for not winning. The Seahawks gaffe and blowing 2 straight home playoff championship games as well as doing nothing at home against the 49ers in the playoffs.

Yeah. Lot of that was on Aaron

But they did try. They found WR3 WR4 etc.

Pringle put up yards 600 and 5 TD's. Hardman had yards and TD's. Robinson had yards and TD's.

None of them were WR1, because well....duh....they had Tyreek and Kelce for that.

So, they did what you wanted....I'm not sure what your upset about here. Is it just coming down to not having a #1 WR? They just went a year without 1 after they trade him for a bunch of picks when he demanded the money he did, they immediately traded for a first rounder who they are telling us they view as the #1 guy now.

Our OL lost us the Tampa Super Bowl. Of course somewhat unfair given the injuries.

We had one of the worst second half offensive performances in the teams history vs cincy.

Without a doubt both were lost on offense. In both those games the defense performed reasonable vs standard whereas a dominant offense was simply bad.

The Bucs scored on damn near every possession in the SB. It wasn't just the OL that cost us that game.

The cinci game....the one we had Hill and Kelce and company and our QB vapor locked?

I'm curious how more weapons change that

Going into last year it was obvious we needed a more athletic secondary a edge and wr. Veech took all 3 with his first 3 picks. This year heading in it was also obvious we needed and edge and OT. No real OT was available in the 1st 2 settles for one in the third. Which also means he may not be ready to start. So we sign one in FA's on a great contract.

They are doing the best to fill the needs with low cost draft picks. Guys who will be expected to play significant. But the above I think is going to be changed due to the big money WR. are commanding. Your not going to be able to get much for 5-10 million in FA's. The top Wr are commanding LT money and beyond.

What? Pringle was undrafted. Robinson was a 4th rounder. These guys can’t even get 1 year contracts anywhere. Teams don’t even want them as their WR5. We didn’t even want them at bare minimum $s. You’re overhyping JAGs because mahomes elevated their play. I can’t imagine a few bunts for bad WRs proves any point that we even tried to address 5 WR spots. Especially when we decided in 2021 that these guys were legit going to be our WR2 options.

Pringle signed a 1 year deal with the Bears.

Robinson with the Raiders, then went on to have a decent year with the Ravens.

So try again?

Hardman, the 2nd round pick, was WR2 in 21, or actually, more like 3 with Kelce and Hill at 1 and 2.

So again, as WR3 and WR4 they put up 1000 yards and 8 TDs (Pringle and Robinson).

What's the issue here?

I can’t believe we’re trying to use the argument that Robinson and Pringle, two guys we wouldn’t even sign for cheap, are justifications that we put any effort to building a WR room. It continues to prove the point that mahomes’ greatness hides a lot of warts. We had enough info on hardman to know we had to bring in competition. We kicked the can down the road on this position. Period.

The defense early in the Tampa game were what you expect a reasonable defense to do. The bengals game as a whole was a reasonably good performance on defense.

We expect some give and take with the defense. You don’t expect bad performance from the offense let alone the worst halves ever in the Reid era. I’m not saying there’s a magic fix. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to think offense would have been better with just a little extra help.

Because I expect defensive swings. A lot can feel outside of our control when burrow or Allen are feeling it. We don’t expect offensive swings. In those games we asked our defense to carry our offense entirely. At least with our offense we know we’re capable of largely limiting these kinds of bad performances.

The defense played lights out in the first quarter of that game. That game was ripe for a Chiefs blowout if the offense had been it's normal self.

I've rewatched large chunks of that game multiple times, and I've every time, I'm like damn, damn, damn. We had them early, if only our receivers had caught the ball.

If the Chiefs had not been forced to pass constantly after halftime it would have been a very different game. Being down multiple scores made the OL even worse.

I only put maybe 20% of the blame on the defense in that game. The offense put them in an unwinnable situation.

Because that's what the majority of "taking swings" at mid round Wr's are gonna be.

Unless you're advocating we spend higher picks on weapons, which they've now done.

It's coming off alot of bitching to bitch here.

We want our 3rd and 4th WR to be high level WRs. Ok, sure. That's not gonna happen....it never happens anywhere, but we need to be stocked to the tits with weapons?

Who said that? We need WR3s who can be WR3s. Nobody wants the guys we cut even as their WR5s. These guys can’t sign anywhere. Even mecole got a puny contract.

And at WR you take those swings in the hope they have potential to be WR2s and WR1s. Of course you won’t hit every time. But that’s why you try and you try often. It’s one of those positions where you can build depth while getting quality contributors at the same time. We just last year started the process we should have started (less desperately) 5 years ago.

They did sign elsewhere.... again.....you're just wrong here. They signed for what #3 and #4 WR's sign for.

So yeah, they did try, you just don't like the players they tried with. They had Tyreek, Mecole, Watkins and Chris Conley under contract. So they should have kept drafting 2nd round WR's.

Seems smart.

A 2nd and a 4th in 5 years and putting all your eggs in that basket isn’t taking swings. Arguably the only reason we even took mecole is because we were insuring against losing a WR1.

They signed 1- year contracts. As of now neither Pringle or Demarcus has signed anywhere. Demarcus has been cut twice. It’s one thing to settle for these guys. But we put all our eggs into this basket. Until the dam burst.

Yes, they've gone on to be what 3 and 4 level WRs are. They bounce around.

They put all their eggs into that basket by having them be 3 and 4 level WR's here and put up 1k yards and 8 TD's?

I think they learned a lot in 2021. Credit to them for taking Noah Gray to be a weapon, but since that slump they changed the offense to step away from “go deep Tyreek!” and using Kelce as the only safety valve.

MVS was better than any of the rotational guys we got before him (Pringle, Robinson, Hardman) and Juju was the first WR we had with that RB size since Watkins.

I think they really changed the offense to be more oriented to a vast array of quantity mixed with quality. And the quality is hopefully the guys they drafted the last 2 years in the 2nd rd. Toney sure has been. He was a great pickup for the price/salary investment.

You're the one focusing on those two, when we've used three high picks on WR in the last twelve months.

Because as I said we sat on our hands for 5 years. Just as we did at interior OL until the dam burst. Just as we did at at RT. And so we find that OTs and WRs who we know take time to develop in a Reid offense we are relying on these young guys to step in really early with the possibility that maybe our WR and OT room still isn’t very good.

These are things we diligently and constantly try to address on defense. When something breaks we immediately look to fix it. But on offense we wait to hit the breaking point to address them. Because mahomes can cover up weaknesses.

The majority of the best offenses find at least 1 WR in 5 years good enough to step up to WR2. They find slot guys who are plenty effective in the WR3/WR4 role.

We did not find a single WR in the draft in 5 years worth keeping. Not a WR1. Not a WR2. Not even a situational WR. At one point Pringle was our WR2 not because of injury but because he was the best we had.

Sorry but I think you’re really sugarcoating our WR room. We did a very poor job drafting WRs. Period.

Not much effort was put into drafting the position, you don't hit shots you don't take.

Because we didn't need to find a #1 WR. We had 2 of them.

I think your expectations for what a WR2 and 3 should be are wrong. Most 3 and 4 WR's aren't worth keeping and end up signing 1 year cheap deals in other places because teams draft cheap mid round WR's to replace them.

Like we did with Mecole, like the Giants have done in regards to Richie James and on and on.

The best offenses. Ok. Lets lay them out here. The best offenses such as...the Bengals? Sure, they drafted 2 first round WR's, one being in the top 5.

Mecole Hardman was a 2nd round pick that ended up being a good player for the Chiefs. No he didn't develop into a top flight WR, but for what he was and what we needed...yeah.

No doubt mahomes became better. We got smarter about the type of WR we wanted. But it should have happened sooner. And it still follows a trend that we react to problems on offense instead of anticipating them. I’m not saying we’re doing things poorly. I just think we’re short shrifting the offense in the search for a top 3 defense.

And that looms very large because life with even a lesser version of kelce will open up a whole lot more cans of worms than losing tyreek. Will we anticipate that? Or will we wait for the decline to materialize before we put some urgency behind it. Because history seems to indicate we’ll wait for this to hit its peak before we actually address it

In many ways Hardman is the same guy he was when he was drafted, a premier athlete with a ton of speed that doesn't get the nuance of playing WR. That happens sometimes.

Why aren't the Dolphins spending more draft picks to stock their #3 and #4 WRs?

Why aren't the Seahawks?

The Chiefs had Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce in their absolute prime and we are asking to spend first round picks on WRs. Is there maybe a reason no one else in the league is doing it?

Ok now the Seahawks are a bad example they just used a 1 to take a #3 WR.

Yes, we should be expect the offense to change when they lose the best TE in the history of the sport. They aren't going to be able to just plug someone in there.

To get really really honest here they've invested a 2 in 2 straight years in WR, now there is expectation with those picks where with guys like Cornell Powell that was nothing.

You also aren’t going to rely on mahomes and Reid to elevate meh talent across the board. These guys need to step up. We need these picks to become more than just role players. I would’ve rather we prepared for life without tyreek and kelce much much sooner. But right now we have to be surgically good. And if we’re committed to building a top 5 defense we need to be extremely good.

It ain’t gonna cut it to have a bunch of WR2s playing WR1 if kelce even slightly regresses.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by prepared for life without them?

True, but Lockett is also about to age out.

I think you're doing a great disservice to Mahomes with this whole discussion.

Yes, he needs a bunch of WR2s. With Andy and Mahomes, those guys are WR1s. This isnt' Alex Smith here.

Is this a real question? They had a WR1 and still threw a shitload of picks to get tyreek hill. Then they used 2 of their 8 remaining picks on WRs.

The Seahawks have both a WR1 and WR2 and yet spent 5 picks the past 3 seasons on WR including taking jaxon smith njigba with #20.

Again this isn’t just about stocking WR3s. This is making the effort to find Guys who can be WR2 or WR1 but can settle into WR3 or WR4 if they don’t progress. You are reaching if you think we barely even tried to find a WR2 especially knowing Sammy watkins had a shelf life. We had 5 years to find a single WR in house and we didn’t.

We already experienced life without tyreek. Life without kelce is going to be much tougher. We have to expect some kind of regression and knock on wood, it’ll be hard to rely on him for 16 games. At some point relatively soon we have to expect a dramatic recession.

I know I've said but I really don't hate the idea of just repeatedly going for WRs early until they hit and to some extent OTs too. But the issue is how do you integrate and evaluate them? I find it hard to believe another 2nd or 3rd rounder wouldn't have pushed out guys like Robinson and Pringle, but even then you're talking about them being 4th or 5th option after Kelce, Hill and Watkins. By the time Watkins and Hill have moved on you may have them ready to step into a bigger role and be a top player, but maybe they've just not got the snaps to know. I love the idea of always having the next guy ready to roll and contribute, no disagreement there, I just think it's damn hard to make that work. Sometimes you have to try and plug a gap as it emerges maybe.

Oh so now using late round picks and UDFA types on WR's is ok. Sure sure.

Again, the Chiefs did that and had roster spots taken by guys they were developing. WR3 and WR4 types are gonna put up 400 yards per year. The Chiefs had that.

You just didn't like the guys who did it and don't think Mahomes and Andy can continue to develop those types of guys I guess.

A We're picking at the end of rounds so it's not like we have a shot at the tip top guys.

B Even if we take guys there to fill some spots they aren't going to do the exact same thing, for example Michael Mayer is not a Kelce replacement.

If Skyy Moore and Rashee Rice end up basically being DeMarcus Robinson then you can bitch about the inability to develop guys.

Robinson put up 500 yards and 3 TDs a year.

What are you expecting a 3rd or 4th WR to put up? Every team in the league would give it's left ball for their 4th or 5th option to put that up, yet we can't develop weapons here.

This just in!

The Chiefs need their highly drafted WR's to pan out! No shit, eh?

So does everyone else in the NFL.

They put all their eggs in that basket though!

(Whatever the **** that means)

This dude makes it sound like the Chiefs just went 3-14 with a bottom half passing game. There's a lot of chicken little hyperbole in here.

Guys drafted in the 2nd have a higher expectation, I don't even mean right now although Moore needs to be better this year.

They haven't even really tried to develop weapons, it's kind of funny people think because Cornell Powell didn't work out or something like that we don't develop weapons.

The only one in my view they get a hey this didn't work out grade on is Helaire.

For sure.

But if they put up 800 yards and 5 TD's, we're golden.

The biggest issue the WR room has is the high ceiling is there, someone could break out and have a huge year.....but the floor is also very very low.

There isn't anything you can look at and go yes these guys are consistent performers.

No, I think people are expecting too much of them and how much they should be asked to carry the offense on their back. Especially in a world with less or without kelce we can’t keep drawing from that well. And these guys are good enough to dominate, not just be good enough to support a balanced team. Elevating unremarkable play can be a curse as much as it is a blessing.

Bottom line is we will take a step back when Kelce declines or retires. I don't see anyway round that even with Mahomes' magic. I think chiefzilla is right in that almost every year I'd want at least one of my first 2 picks being a weapon and failing that protection.

The issue though is that we need a couple of things - options and/or willing trade partners. This year the WR class was s*** for elite talent, so you might as well go R2, and we did. The OT class was decent enough but there was no way to get up without burning so many picks that filling in other roster spots becomes a nightmare. Would I have liked to have kept a pick and taken another flyer later on, probably, but it's splitting hairs because that second guy aint getting snaps.

If I'm bitching about Veach whiffing on offensive talent or just not trying it's MEH. With Higgins there it was a terrible, terrible pick. It happens.

If that’s what the best guy has to offer we will be fine. That is very different from being golden. And they need to be guys who can put up 800 yards with any qb, not just because mahomes elevates their play. At this point I would love to see just 1 game with a really good WR because I think people have really underestimated our upside if we just had some semblance of talent.

You mean... like the four seasons with Tyreek Hill?

In fairness I think Higgins is better than most people expected him to be. I watched a ton of him at Clemson and he always just seemed to be missing that something to be special.

Hell Lawrence seemed to trust Ross far more than him in the championship year.

This is a very different offense and mahomes than what we had with tyreek hill. Nobody is saying we need to go back to the offense. Doing what we are doing now but getting more from our top WRs will most certainly make us better. And our ceiling is way higher than we realize. That doesn’t mean we need tyreek and I’ve been supportive of getting rid of him. But to act like we’re anywhere near our ceiling without a legit WR1 or that a WR1 doesn’t make us better is sugarcoating things.

The offense and Mahomes have been exactly 1 season without Tyreek. If they get a clear number 1 they would just get back to what they were with Tyreek. (which coincidentally was very statistically similar to last year). To say the ceiling is higher is more hyperbole because they might put up more yards but there is still only one Superbowl every season.

Let’s say rashee rice becomes a clear WrR1. Even a low end one. Our offense is immediately better. We are deeper than we were with tyreek. Mahomes is a way better qb. Andy has a way better understanding of how to attack the looks that stumped us a few years ago. Of course we are very fine without it. But we still have plenty of ceiling.