I mean, he wasn't seen that way.

But I'm sure Veach would disagree, and in hindsight he clearly was.

I'm interested to see who ends up with the chance to take him. I'd really like to see him in the NFC......kinda hoping the Vikings somehow someway do it just so he can throw balls to Jefferson.

That's true....but he also got drafted into Andy's playhouse.

I'm as big of a Pat guy as anyone, but I don't want to do any disservice to Andy in the whole thing. It's been a big part of it.

It's likely the Cardinals dude.

They're going into the season with Dobbs, who they just traded for, and their starting QB. There are reports that Murray won't play at all this year. They're toast.

I will say though, if you look at that Rams roster, that's a team that could give them a run for their money with a couple early injuries.

The NFC is such shit, there's gonna be a few teams trying to outflank each other on it.

The Cardinals are going to be really difficult to outsuck though. That team is just devoid of talent on both sides of the ball, and they're actively tanking.

The Cards are sucking so hard on purpose I wouldn't be surprised if they made some bad play calls to lose on purpose in close games.

So I'm a little curious - and I haven't looked into this at all - a LOT of the hype around him comes from him being precocious, right; excellent beyond his years after excelling at OU and USC as a true freshman then sophomore respectively.

So...why did he play his true freshman season at 20 years old? He's going to turn 22 this November so it's not like he's going to come out super young. He'll actually enter the draft a full year older than Mahomes was when he entered.

Can some of the hype be a little unfounded? I mean if you're talking about a 20 yr old freshman, that's a fair sight different than one that's 18 or 19, no?

I dunno - just something I noticed.

Teams with the best shot at #1:

1. Cardinals
2. Commanders
3. Falcons
4. Texans
5. Bucs
6. Rams

I'd be pretty shocked if it's any other team.

I have to say, I wasn't aware of this at all, so that's a very good question.

Well considering the Cards have that Texans pick increase their odds..

Bucs I can see, I think Atlanta leans on Bijan which will get them 6 wins.

The Commanders just have so much talent on the defense...I think they'll get to 6 or 7 wins.

The Falcons are probably the same just from a talent standpoint.

Could you imagine Williams in ATL with Bijan, Pitts, and London?

Oh man!

So, Williams has displayed more talent in college than Pat? That's insane.

Williams is also a good 2" shorter, so to overcome that and Pat's college abilities is really impressive.

Yea, but they're also both starting 2 2nd year QBs that could be absolutely awful.

This is exactly why I'm confident it will be the Cardinals though.

Atlanta didn't even get a top 5 pick starting Mariotta for most of the year.

That's probably correct and I remember him from Oklahoma.

I'd just assumed he'd redshirted. So I looked it up and was...puzzled.

The difference between 24 and 25 ain't much.

The difference between 19 and 20? Man, that can mean a LOT. And with a relatively short track record to boot.

Though the idea that the Cardinals are 'tanking' is a little funny. Those guys were gonna ****ing suck no matter how hard they tried. This isn't a team that was gonna win 8 or even 5 games if they went balls out.

This was a probable 3 win football team if they got a couple breaks.

Kyler Murray has managed to **** over different franchises in different sports. That's some pretty excellent work right there.

Yea, I don't expect them to actually finish where I rank them, but I'm factoring QB play heavily because a couple injuries here or there and things get ugly quick with a bad QB.

The question though is what NFC team is gonna trade for Murray when Arizona is willing to just dump him?

What does Williams do better than Pat? That's what I'm trying to understand.

This is a reason I am all over Bijan Robinson in fantasy, he is gonna get a ton of touches of the ball.

Oh, I don't disagree with that at all, but they're also doing everything everything they can to make sure they get that #1 pick .

I wasn't aware of how old Williams was for his class, but he's still a legitimate stud talent.

The real thing that might decide who is better between him and Drake Maye (who is also an incredibly well-regarded QB prospect who would have gone #1 unless something weird came up in the draft run-up) is where they land.

When you look at what the Commanders, Falcons, and Cardinals have on offense, it sounds crazy, but Washington might actually be set up well for a young QB to succeed quickly.

Terry McLaurin is a legit WR1. Jahan Dotson is a really nice, rising WR2. Both are better than any WR on the Cardinals offense.

The Falcons have Robinson and London and Pitts (if he can be salvaged), which isn't as good as the Commanders to me, but still better than the Cardinals.

I'm drafting him after the big 3 (Chase, Jefferson, McCaffrey).

Nothing.

But any team in football would give up 5 years worth of 1sts for a guy who proves to be Patrick Mahomes. That's the point.

What Williams presents is someone who does a lot of the same things as Mahomes. Appears very savvy, very fluid in his mechanics, mobile, strong-armed.

When people see Williams they see the next closest thing to Mahomes that has come through the draft in awhile. Teams aren't tanking for Williams because he's a better prospect than Mahomes - they're tanking for Williams because they live in a Post-Mahomes world.

And again - they're not really tanking much anyway. The Cardinals suck.

Agreed with the Commanders being a good spot, but I definitely disagree about it being better than the Falcons. I'll take the Falcons weapons.

That makes sense. It just seems odd that Pat's skill-set wasn't valued more in 2017.

Man - I just don't see the Falcons in that group.

They're more likely to win the South than end up with the worst record in the NFL.

I'm really curios to see what Ridder can do. He's smarth, he's athletic. He has NFL arm strength if not exactly elite. Can get a little wonky with his accuracy at times so he's not a superstar, but I think he can be a credible NFL starter.

With those weapons around him, why can't that team win 8-10 games?

I just don't see them in the same tier as the true dregs of the NFL at all.

Things change....some guys literally were born at the wrong time so they got hosed.

Blaine Gabbert would have probably been an entrenched long term NFL starter had he been born 25 years earlier.

If Ridder is even slightly below average, they probably aren't.

The Vikings made an initial wave of roster cuts on Monday morning ahead of Tuesday's deadline for all teams to set initial 53-man rosters.

The team parted ways with 15 players, including quarterback Jordan Ta'amu, who was signed last week as an emergency option with both Kirk Cousins and Nick Mullens sitting out the preseason finale against the Cardinals. The Vikings also waived nose tackle Calvin Avery; cornerbacks Jameson Houston, C.J. Coldon Jr. and Kalon Barnes; receiver Garett Maag; linebacker Wilson Huber; running back Abram Smith; tight end Colin Thompson; offensive tackles Christian DiLauro and Jarrid Williams; and center Josh Sokol.

Cornerback Tay Gowan, who was held out of Saturday's game against Arizona, was waived with an injury designation. Two veteran players with at least four accrued NFL seasons — safety Jake Gervase and linebacker Tanner Vallejo — were released and do not have to be exposed to waivers.

An additional 22 moves must be made before 3 p.m. on Tuesday. The Vikings began Sunday night by agreeing to trade second-year offensive tackle Vederian Lowe to the Patriots for a 2024 sixth-round draft pick.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dolphins’ roster moves: <a href="https://t.co/hHXte85GzW">pic.twitter.com/hHXte85GzW</a></p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1696255107493499386?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yeah, I agree with that. The division helps. Ridder is like a younger, unspoiled-by-failure version of Tannehill for me. Arthur Smith has done things with that level QB before.

stop calling him Hollywood. At best, he's reseda.

Clayton Tune sounds like a specific guitar tuning to play bluegrass

Here's a hot take for you.

I'm out on Caleb Williams. I saw some interview with him, halftime or something, and someone asked him something about Mahomes, and he said (I think this is verbatum) "there really isn't anything he can do that I can't, so yeah."

:spock:

A spoonful of humility does a career good, bud.

Then I watched the second half and he sure he threw some good balls off platform, he threw some good balls. He also threw some balls away pretty early. He also eliminated half the field really early in a lot of snaps.

We'll see, and I'm the only guy on the ****ing planet out on the dude - and I'm certainly open to being wrong. Stay with me here, in my mind what makes Mahomes the best is the grind. He is supremely talented, sure, but there have been talented dudes that could do some amazing shit. But transferring those skills to production is where Mahomes shines.

My opinion is that teams now need to watch out for dudes trying to do Mahomes stuff, rather that being able to do Mahomes stuff and playing football.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-...0&dpr=1&s=none

I haven't followed him at all, but I always thought Keke Coutee had juice enough to stick coming out of Tech. He was always the go to option in college, and I thought he was pretty solid. Eating the L on that one.

I laughed unreasonably hard at that.

Can someone please explain the hate for this post? LMAO

Because people get their hopes up at the beginning and then they read the end of the sentence.

It's not nuthooks level, but people don't like having their hopes shit on like that.

Agreed. I read it again just now and thought we somehow got a 7th or something.

It was an obvious joke to anyone who isn't a momo for crying out loud

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/MDm8BPswX7rYMjERar" width="480" height="454" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/you-too-MDm8BPswX7rYMjERar">via GIPHY</a></p>

I know it was. I'm just seconding the reality of getting my hopes up once again...

this dude got cut



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">if Patrick Mahomes does this twitter breaks<a href="https://t.co/1RIh9gv7EU">pic.twitter.com/1RIh9gv7EU</a></p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1690516332293312512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I had no idea this was such a hot button issue - is it CEH or Darwin - what does CEH bring that Darwin Can't?

I'm so confused. Talk to me Dartgod, Sofa King and Lewdog! I need to understand!

I'm confused didn't you post that earlier? Darwin is trash that's why nobody responded

LMAO except Patrick does it against Starting Caliber defenses...these are 4th stringers

and CEH is?

A. Superstar
B. Solid Starter
C. Hot Garbage

CEH is worlds better than Darwin, even if he should be cut.

They're gonna be in a good spot regardless. Even if Caleb Williams turns his nose up at them, they can draft Drake Maye, who quite honestly looks like Justin Herbert with better arm angle ability.

Most of the people work with are located in Raleigh and they haven't been this high on a player in so many years. He might be the best Tarheel ever. You just watch him play and see so much talent. I'd argue you see as much talent from him as Caleb Williams.

Hopefully both these guys go to the NFC to balance the scales a bit. Cardinals and The Bears would do.

I'm glad I don't ever have to root for Caleb Williams.


He's a dick.

A lot of folks are hyping up Williams but here are some points to consider.

1. He's about 5'11 or at best 6 foot which is Baker Mayfield or Drew Brees height. There's noway he's 6'1 as speculated imo.

2. The system he plays in is very QB friendly and made Baker and Murray look like superstars too.

3. His running ability is more shifty than actual speed and that's not gonna get him 600 plus rush yards In NFL as defenders are way too quick.

4. He's played against many weak teams and has had NFL talent like Addison to throw to.

5. He'll be 23 a month into his rookie year. Mahomes was 22 his rookie year and 23 when he eon the mvp with 50 TD's and 5000 yards.

Don't get me wrong he'll likely be the number one pick and his creativity can look like Pat at times. But what makes Pat special is not just the wow plays but it's his ability to digest information quickly and react that seperates him. I'd love to see Caleb face the Georgia defense this year or see how he copes when he faces Belichick in the league. Those are the tests that will show us how good he really is.

Also he does something like that, what, a dozen times per season?

I don't know yet. I'm not sure I buy the 'generational' stuff, though. That's for sure.

What I think people lose sight of is how few mistakes Mahomes makes.

The difference between a good golfer and ME isn't the good shots. I can make a handful of damn near PGA caliber shots on occasion. Good flexibility means I can really whip the clubhead through.

But brotha I am a shitty golfer. Because for every 'Mahomes' shot I make, I duff 8 of 'em. I will absolutely rip an approach shot right down the middle and be set up for an easy bird - then I'll center the ball with a pitching wedge and hit it 60 yards over the green on a 12 degree launch angle. Or I'll just hit the top of it and roll it 15 yards.

I really don't give a damn how amazing a play a guy can make. Or how MANY of them he can make. It's how many mistakes he makes that matters.

Eli Manning said it best - 'When I'm bad, I can't be that bad...' and for the overwhelming majority of quarterbacks, that needs to be the thing they focus on. And it's real possible that a lot of really talented guys are going to lose sight of that fact and a lot of really bold front offices are going to get a few coaches fired with them...

you really are a high priced attorney :eek:

I think Dan Orlovsky has been reading CP satire posts about anybody the Chiefs sign and that inspired his Caleb Williams comp.

I shit you not - I'm not allowed to play with clients.

We have two Juniors who are awfully good so we send them to go golfing with the clients. We occasionally call the founding partner out of retirement if one of our two anchor tenants wants a round but under no circumstances is it gonna be me.

But I have a buddy who's kindof a big deal for a publicly traded company. Did the leadership schools and all that nonsense - doing well down in Texas. He told me "hey, all that 'putt for dough' stuff is bullshit. Learn to drive. That's it. Business golf is about keeping the ball in the fairway and then strolling out there with your client instead wandering through the rough looking for your stupid ball. None of those guys give a rip if you 4 putt but they are gonna lose interest in this outing REALLY fast if you keep stealing the cart to go find your ball OOB"

I'll be damned if he's not right. If you could just hit everything 225 and straight, that's PERFECT for business golf.

But yeah - I'm bad. And don't have the patience to be good.

LMAO - Fair enough - I never made an effort to be good at golf, I have played a couple of times and I'm just terrible. I may as well be the caddy.

Commanders release Marcus Kemp.

Trade for Watson in the works? Or, worse yet, getting ready to poach ISM.

Excellent post.

Unfortunately for everybody, these kids think the Mahomes plays are what’s important, and the subsequent deterioration of fundamentals is going to lead to mistakes.

ROFL Props for self awareness.

I too am a shit golfer. We have a half mile grass runway at the farm and I used to try to do a little driving there, but man I’m a bag of shit. and like you don’t have the patience to learn.

When I was at Cabela’s the guys from the office insisted I golf with them when I got married. We split up into pairs and Obviously I was in the rough looking for my balls. Poor bastard with me deserves free beer forever. But I ripped a good one and out drove everybody. I didn’t say a word about it on account of all the other garbage shots I hit, but my partner talked SO. MUCH. SHIT. ROFL

Golf, for all its faults still achieves a nice endorphin hit when it’s right.

The other thing that always made me laugh is my supervisor was a big golfer. Drove a piece of shit Volvo from the 90s, but bought a house on the golf course and a membership and golfed like every day for 9 months out of the year. Obviously him and I didn’t have a ton to talk about but I’ll never forget him saying, “I’ve seen dudes spend $500 on a driver, but won’t spend $20 for a lesson.” Fits an awful lot of people I know.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per source, Broncos are waiving TE Albert Okwuegbunam. Great final preseason game and good final two weeks of camp but again, TE position is deep (Trautman, Dulcich, Manhertz, maybe Adkins). <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/9sports?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#9sports</a></p>&mdash; Mike Klis (@mikeklis) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1696544091193106670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Shit can be pretty deep.

Uh, I would take Albert O. as TE3 for sure.

Hows his blocking, for the role he'd have here he'd mainly need to be good at that.

It's not. Pass.


(and I say this as a Mizzou fan)

I want him as receiving insurance if (god forbid) Kelce goes down and all that’s left is Gray or Bushman.

If you're going to keep 4 then yea I'd take him over Bushman.

You’re only bringing in Albert O to be a receiving TE. He’s not a blocker and he doesn’t contribute on Special Teams.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is more to making a football team, then just catching passes. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/broncos?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#broncos</a> <a href="https://t.co/cIh4huVlFq">pic.twitter.com/cIh4huVlFq</a></p>&mdash; Mark Schlereth (@markschlereth) <a href="https://twitter.com/markschlereth/status/1696556550460985536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

dayum that was cold

The Saints trade kicker Will Lutz to the Broncos..also release Bradley Roby.

Bengals released Devon Asiasi that's one to watch for a Chiefs add.

Bills trade DE Boogie Basham to Giants for late round pick

Sean kicked him to the curb before the general signed him to an early extension. Drats!

Texans release Chase Winovich yea thar career is probably over.

Ryan Jensen on IR again, speculation his career is over.

Brutal. He was a brutal blocker in college as well.

Vikings waived Ross Blacklock, remember when people had him as a 1st round pick?

Every time I envision who DJ could be in real life I think of Harvey Specter from Suits