You’re arguing into the wind. No one is the next Mahomes. No one in this thread or otherwise has said he’ll be as good as Mahomes outside of maybe a future Skip Bayless take.

I watched a lot of football yesterday... Mahomes is making an impact on HS kids more than I realized. The number of sidearm throws, and jump throws was more apparent than ever. Many weren't executed greatly, but this guy has the tools. Is he the next Mahomes? Depends on several factors. Is he more Manziel or Patrick mentally? Does he refuse to lose and will do whatever it takes to get better despite being worth $500+ million dollars? Does he get drafted by an offensive genius and have a support system to emphasize his talent positively, or is he drafted by a shit franchise with a shitty coach? Mahomes is gifted physically, mentally and has the competitiveness of Jordan and fell into the perfect situation. Everything has meshed perfectly, that is a rarity. This kid will be good, but there is a lot of things that have to go perfectly right for him to be the next Mahomes.

Throwing to 5 star wide receivers at very position.

Mahomes did it with 8 man football castaways.

If Caleb Williams ends up as just a “top 5-10 QB” in the NFL… he’s a bust relative to the hype that he’s supposedly going to be “the next Patrick Mahomes”.

“Generational QB’s” are not just “top 5-10 QB’s”… that’s Kirk Cousins territory.

So once again, do you want to back up your dumbshit claim that Caleb Williams will be a “generational QB” and not be a bust?

Yes or no.

Stop bloviating, stop countering with straw man arguments and put your $$$ where your fat fraudulent mouth is.

Provide the evidence where I said Caleb Williams will be a “generational QB” or even near the level of Mahomes. If you can provide that, by all means, I’ll make that bet with you.

I’ll happily provide the evidence where you said he would be a bust. Here:

You do realize how ironic it is to accuse someone else of using a straw man argument when you yourself are in the midst of doing it? Move them goalposts though.

This. It's like everything had to come together perfectly for life on earth. Patrick Mahomes = life on earth.

The REAL question is , will he be the next Johnny Manziel !!!???

If Caleb Williams ends up as just a “top 5-10 QB” (your prediction) and not a “generational QB” is he a bust relative to the hype/expectations?

Tell me you agree with my prediction that Caleb Williams will be a bust without apparently realizing you are agreeing with me. ROFL

If he’s a top 5-10 QB in the NFL by the end of his third year while playing for the Jonathan Gannon-led Cardinals, I don’t think anyone will be labeling him as a bust relative to any expectations.

But you keep slivering away….

Seriously? LMAO

He’s being hyped as the supposed “next Patrick Mahomes” (i.e. the topic of this thread) and a “generational QB”.

Anything below that is a bust, relative to expectations/the hype.

People will think you are talking about Andrew Luck.

No, not in a thread where no one actually said they think he’ll be close to the level of Mahomes and where you instead said he’ll have a career closer to that of players who never amounted to anything in the NFL.

But continue with that manufactured outrage. And we’ll see if he has a career close to Darnold/Sanchez/Leinart as you’ve predicted. Can’t wait until you make up a cool play on his name that you overuse incessantly like a petulant 4th grader.

1. One QB is a two time league MVP, two time SB MVP, two time SB champion, is 27 years old and is already a lock for the HOF and already considered among the (at worst), 10 best QBs to ever play the game.

2. The other is a hyped QB that’s thriving in a system that made Mayfield and Murray #1 picks. This QB might be a stud in the NFL and might not. Time will tell.

Given a choice I think I would go with option 1.

ESPN says he’s 6’1”
http://https://www.espn.com/college-...caleb-williams

Actually, every sports media outlet says he’s 6’1”

ESPN and those other media outlets get their roster info from the same University SID and they are known for fudging the numbers from time to time. We won't know his actual height until the combine or pro day.

He could be 6'1 but I also wouldn't be surprised if he isn't.

Most people doubt he’s 6’1 so I think it’s likely overstated.

But a fun stat: he only had 3 fewer broken tackles last year than Anthony Richardson, a guy who is much taller and built like an athletic tank. So whether he’s 6’ or whatever, the guy is strong and physical.

I don't know how people can tell if a guy is 6' 1" or 6-foot even watching on TV, or their phone.


Whatever. he looks like he can play, in spite of his lack of height.

Caleb Williams has both the USC and Lincoln Riley QB curses (Jalen Hurts has a shot at breaking the Lincoln Riley curse) to overcome.

And he’s just not THAT good.

He's close to Bryce Young's height from what I hear but people won't speak on the height until draft time when the truth will finally be revealed. At best he's Baker or Hurts's height (6 foot). At worst he's Brees or Russell Wilson's height (5'11). For example Colin Cowherd said he met him and he's taller than Caleb and Colin is apparently 6'1.

Caleb has a stocky kind of build but QB's often bulk up when they hit the league so it will be interesting to see how he goes in that department.

Ultimately I see a kid in a very friendly QB system that gives him easy reads and simple throws to make. But he can be drawn out of that with a little pressure and so he does his scrambling drills and his talent is often better than the opposition so the scrambling plays often come off.

But I don't want to pick his game apart too much..I just want to see how he does against better opposition and then outside of Riley's system.

He's really ****ing good

Like Trey Lance and every kid from college who has come or coming after Patrick. The NFL is a whole different animal. Come back in 2 to 3 years with this question.

Jalen became a different product in Philadelphia. Worlds of difference in his deep ball vs OU.

In Hurts defense he only played under Lincoln Riley for one year. Only so much influence he could have on Hurts. Plus he went to an outstanding organization. Caleb will go to one of the worst run franchises in the history of the NFL. Odds will be stacked against him for sure.

Same answer as it was when people tried to crown Trey Lance and Jordan Love as the next PM2.

No.

Some people in here sound like Bills fans when they discuss Mahomes.

I think Williams is overrated based on a few factors, but I’ll admit my sample size of when Ive watched him play is limited to 2 games.

I didn’t see a “Luck, Burrow, Mahomes” level talent in those games and his size would absolutely be a major concern for me. He’s barely 6’ and those guys tend to have trouble throwing well over the middle from the pocket at the nfl level.

I think the kid would have had a good chance if he was going to a team with a clue and talent around him…but going to Arizona and dealing with multiple distractions as well as poor front office, ownership and coaching is a touch spot…especially in that division.

When you’re talking about “making the pro bowl” are you talking about initial pro bowlers, or guys that made the “pro bowl” after a bunch of guys opted out?

If we aren’t including the opt outs, I’d be interested in a $$ or board wager, twisted.

I don’t think he will make the pro bowl except “only as an alternate” in his first 3 years.

No. /Thread

Is Caleb Mahomes the new Patrick Williams?

In what way?

That’s the exact bet I was willing to make with MiamiSuperfan99 and I’ll happily make it with you. DM me and we can discuss further, buddy.

No sir!

I seen Patrick Mahomes and you sir are no Patrick Mahomes..

Imagine wasting your entire Labor Day weekend dying on the hill of pimping Caleb Williams.

LMAO

Didn't realize USC still had a football program.

lmao

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interesting… <a href="https://t.co/OrE1v0rjik">pic.twitter.com/OrE1v0rjik</a></p>&mdash; Billy M (@BillyM_91) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1713357369080524884?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

BINGO !!:thumb:

He is ****ing not!

Why do you post so weird

Twisted will not be seen in this thread tonight. LMAO

Watching now, almost threw Int 4.

I called this shit in the Donks thread. You don't tank for anybody. The only guy that really lived up the hype coming out was Peyton Manning. Even Andrew Luck while had a good career was never the guy in the NFL. He might be a good QB but what are the odds he is even Jalen Hurts?

My stance remains the same as it’s always been.

I wouldn't categorically say no. But, I'm totally on board with "probably not."

Anyone else remember DeShone Kizer?

He was Mahomes' stablemate and many so called "media analysts" considered him the most "pro ready" prospect. Kizer was a big, mobile guy with a huge arm who ran an NFL-style system at Notre Dame.

But, mentally, he wasn't anywhere close to Mahomes. That's what people underestimate about Patrick They ooooh and ahhhhh over his off platform throws, broken plays, and cannon arm. But they don't often mention his processing speed, field vision, and maturity.

Caleb Williams is physically gifted, but can he process like Mahomes?

I don't think fans can know until we see him on an NFL field.

I agree 1000%! Remains to be seen for sure.

But I can tell you this, IF we play the 49ers in the SB, I can assure you who CAN process very efficiently and that is Brock Purdy. We will not be playing a Crappolo type QB if we play the Niners.:thumb:

I agree 100%.

Remember a few years ago and people were wondering if "pocket passers" were a dying breed after Lamar Jackson wins an MVP, Mahomes takes the league by storm, and you've got athletic freaks like Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and DeSean Watson tearing it up?

The whole thing was silly because Brees and Brady were still killing it.

Now, Purdy comes along and shows what an A-level processor can do without great physical ability.

A great processer with an accurate arm is ALWAYS going to have a place in the NFL And, they're almost impossible to identify until you see them against an NFL defense.

I think Veach was able to see it with Mahomes, b/c Patrick played behind a total shit line at Texas Tech with receivers that weren't great. That meant his throwing windows and the time he had to throw were limited.

That's why I can say with confidence that Lenny Dawson would have killed it in today's NFL. As smart as Dawson was, imagine how fast he'd get the ball out when you couldn't mug his receivers until the ball was in the air?

He played in a real bump and run era.

Caleb Leniert

Only because I’ve been 30 feet from him tonight.

Terrible performance no doubt. It happens. You can still accept the bet I proposed, big guy.

The question for NFL teams will be Caleb Williams vs Drake Maye. Both will go high.

Rough game for Williams.

Constant pressure is a killer for any QB.

He ain’t getting an OL when he goes and plays for Denver so get used to it dude

And if Denver is picking first: mile high.

Yes it does but thank Jesus our QB makes the most of all his pressures:clap:

Pressure either makes you become a "diamond" or become "rubble". Take your pick!!

In retrospect, generational QBs are rare in the NFL. Last two decades we had: Brady, Manning, Rodgers. That's it. 3 total.
Which is why now Mahomes sits in a different tier of his own. He is a rare breed. Generational by the very definition of the word.

CW had zero protection tonight. Every damn play a guy is running free at him.

Except for the Super Bowl against Tampa Bay. :evil:

Then again, he didn't throw 5 picks like Noodle Arm Gannon. What an embarrassment yet Raider Nation makes excuses for him for that performance to this day.

I wouldn't want my football team to be quarterbacked by a guy who paints his nails. **** that homo shit.

PS - nice performance for your Canes tonight. Blame the coach again I guess?

I guess impressive for you to attempt to take a win in a thread where you won’t even take a simple bet on your strong view. Hope you sleep well tonight with another Miami loss.

First time I actually watched him play and I got Dak Prescott vibes

Trevor Lawrence was also supposed to be generational.

Someone is triggered. LMAO

Considering your laughably embarrassing slurping of Caleb Williams in this thread, you might want to lay low tonight and take the L.

Especially if your only comeback is apparently trying to deflect and defend Mario Cristobal?

Yikes.

LMAO

ROFL

No, loser. My response is that I’m happy to still keep the bet I proposed that you’re too much of a pussy to accept.

It’s so impressive to talk a big game on a message board with no actual stakes.

Did you actually waste $$$ and go to the game to admire Caleb Williams as you claimed you were planning to do?

Imagine wasting $$$ as a Caleb Williams fanboy only to watch Caleb choke in person.

LMAO

Caleb was running for his life... Just like he will be in the NFL as a first overall selection as no one will trade that pick. Mahomes is great, but he also had the luck of Reid and the Chiefs moving up to get him with a playoff caliber team and organization.

OMG I spent money that means nothing to go to a football game! How will I ever survive this experience where I got an evening off from being a parent?!

You owned me with that!

Keep deflecting from the fact that you’re one of the biggest pussies here. Apparently after this you think he’s more of a total fraud but you’re still too scared to accept the original bet on his NFL success.

Pat yourself on the back for bravery!

Counterpoint to that is CJ Stroud. Playing behind not even just a meh OL but the backups to a meh OL and still very functional all around.

I think the craziest thing the Panthers did was including DJ Moore in that trade with the Bears. Fine to go all-out for the QB but you need some real weapons to properly judge him. The Bears at least understand that with Fields and overpaid for Claypool and then seemingly underpaid for Moore.

Damn, what is this win/lose of this bet?


And I don't know how you watch Williams play against a legitimate defense in ND tonight and not take a bet if you already had doubts on him. Nothing he's doing screams high NFL talent to me.

Same. I've seen some comparisons to Luck and I just don't see it. Not even close.

The Bears would be smart to sell on that #1 pick if the hype maintains to the draft. They could set themselves for a long time, again.

CP back to being reeruns about top quarterback draft picks once again I see

He's being compared to Luck?

He's 6'1 215
Luck was 6'4 234

I can see comparisons to Mahomes. He does a lot of the off platform/movement stuff.

He doesn't do the stuff Luck did.

Unless it's a stone cold lock like Luck was.

That's weird.

I've never seen comparisons to Luck. I think it's just that people feel like he's a true generational QB prospect like Luck, and the only since.

And he's not really 6'1", as anyone with eyes can see. He's 6' max.

Best QBs 6' and under in the modern era?

1 Brees
2 Mr. UnLIMMMMited (Seahawks version of course)
3 Kyler "Resting Bitch Face" Murray

Hard to argue that Brees isn't Caleb's absolute ceiling. And there's nothing wrong with that. Brees is a lock HOFer.

But generational? The next Mahomes? 100% hype. Not seeing it at all.

Well not like compared by physical traits, but by being the most polished QB prospect since Luck.

Nope. Not even in the same atmosphere. There's some tools but yeah.

I don't think he's as good of a prospect as Luck either.

But I like him more than I like Lawrence.

Burrow and him would be close.

Caleb Williams give me Dak vibes honestly. Penix reminds me of Mahomes

The Outlier Part 2: Patrick Mahomes continues to break charts
 

It's damn unlikely that Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes. People who ask that question don't appreciate just how "generational" a talent Patrick Mahomes is for the Chiefs.

MAHOMES IS IN A CLASS BY HIMSELF IN NFL HISTORY. The way we keep stats creates an illusion that other QBs can compare to him. But in situational metrics, he's killing the entire NFL---even historically great QBs like Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees don't compare.

On this point, I'll present an article from Seth Keysor (Chief in the North Substack)


“Patrick Mahomes is breaking statistical analysis.”

I wrote those words almost two full years ago, when I wrote about how Mahomes has managed to dominate the league statistically in a way that causes him to break almost every single chart he’s a part of.

Since that time, one would expect that Mahomes’ statistical absurdity would cease, or at least slow down. After all, the NFL is designed to humble everyone and create parity. Multiple very talented quarterbacks have exploded onto the scene who should narrow the gap between Mahomes and the field. Defenses are gunning for the best way to slow down the Chiefs. He lost Tyreek Hill in a trade prior to the 2022 season.

All of these things should have led to a return to relative normalcy for Mahomes. But it hasn’t. Not even close. It seems like every other week or so a new chart shows up with Mahomes being placed so far above the field (and other elite quarterbacks) that he basically breaks the scale. We whistle in amazement and retweet/restack, and then move on.

Today, I’m going to do my best to put all the best of those charts in one place, and explain briefly what each of them mean in practice. The end point is that Patrick Mahomes remains, in a league full of terrific quarterbacks, an outlier. His distance from the field in meaningful measures of quarterback play should not ever be taken for granted, especially doing so over the course of 5 full years. In short; We’ve never seen anyone like this. And that’s what makes him The Outlier.

_________________________________________________

This is only the intro to a very long article. I'd post it here b/c Keysor has it unlocked on his substack b/c he's trying to use it to scare up subscriptions. (BTW, I'd recommend it). Plus, it has a huge number of charts that I'd don't know would embed well here.

One glance at these charts shows what an outlier he is. And, until I looked at them, I didn't quite grasp how off the charts Mahimes is for us. So clink the link, you won't be disappointed.


LINK: MAHOMES IS A DAMN UNICORN!

Penix doesn't have anywhere near as quick of release as Mahomes.

I think he's damn good, but he doesn't have the tools in the toolbox Mahomes does.

I like the accuracy. I think he's going to be a good player.

If you look at Williams, Penix, May, and Nix all have the physical tools to be successful. It will all come down to their capacity to process and develop as a player.

I guess it isn't ALL that, some dude getting picked up by ****hole Belicheat probably isn't going to succeed. Health and landing spot matter too.

But these dudes can all sling it well enough.

I like Penix, but I’d always be worried about the impending season ending injury.