Bottom line is they should have thrown a flag for illegal contact against Toney on the same ****ing play, it's as obvious as it gets, especially after they threw it on Williams on Buffalo's previous possession. Can anyone post the play showing Toney getting mauled at 10 yards? If not, I will try post when I get back.

it's never called because shit man, how hard is it to not do it?

I suspect it's never called because you don't often have a WR standing that tight to the lineman and so far forward that his foot is literally past the nearest defenders head into the neutral zone.

I mean damn fellas, what choice did he really give the officials with that one? It's just so stinkin' obvious. His BACK foot is lined up about where Rice's front foot is on the opposite side of the formation . Visually it's just so blatant.

It doesn't get called because...well...most players aren't stupid enough to do it. It's just a REALLY bad penalty. There's no excuse for it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This photo removes all doubt. 19 was blatantly offside. <a href="https://t.co/KD0R0Rvguy">pic.twitter.com/KD0R0Rvguy</a></p>&mdash; ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1734210600471822339?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Billion dollar business - and I have to laugh that people actually believe the "ineptitude" narrative.

If the NFL thought it was a problem, it would have been addressed years ago.

Add to that, the NFL does not allow coaches to challenge PI or other penalties.....I dont see any other conclusion than the NFL is perfectly ok with how officials call games.

(cough - cough - vegas - cough)

I want to be really mad about this - if Toney checked, that’s ridiculous for the ref not to scoot him back. This is jaywalking where there’s not much advantage to the penalty. At the same time the refs are gonna give a lot of leeway if he just lines up behind the ball. That’s probably the very simple ask and he did that poorly. You gotta enforce some of that so defenses know who’s eligible

that's basically it in your last 2 sentences to me. it's the inconsistency. last week the reason no DPI was called was "it didn't affect the outcome of the play" which is obviously bullshit. but I'd be curious to know (and I'll never get the answer) is what standard are they going by for affecting the outcome of a play.

like I would be much less butthurt if the two penalties didn't have wildly different outcomes and reasonings.

I had the same outrage that Andy/Mahomes are expressing now, LAST week over the missed DPI call.

I think that was way more egregious.

Toney was blatantly offsides.

Look at Taylor. They could've easily called him for illegal formation as well. I do not understand why these mistakes are being repeated on a weekly basis but the entire offensive coaching staff needs to get their collective shit together and get this ****ery under control instead of whining about the refs being mean.

He's lined up a FULL YARD ahead of where he should be when you look at Rice on the other side.

But sure, Pat. Let 'em play.

And THIS:

Since game one this year, the refs have been hyper-critical of our alignment AND the timing of our get-off at the snap. The Chiefs are treated differently in these areas than other teams. Those are facts anyone can see.

I doubt this call is made in this situation if the whole fiasco against the Lions doesn't happen week one.

NFL refs were badly embarrassed when the entire league-wide fanbase watched Cris Collinsworth criticize Taylor's alignment/timing during the season opener. A memo was circulated after that and they've been overcompensating with those calls against the Chiefs all season.

I think it’s also the fact that Andy claimed that he put other players in Taylor’s spot and were not called. I have no doubt refs hold a grudge. Just look at when the owners added PI to review. They flat out refused to change calls.

Yeah, there are some real questions about the offensive coaching staff that need to be asked. The attention to detail issues are happening every single week.

And we keep hearing "well if we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and start executing, we'll be fine..."

But we're 3/4 of the way through the season and if anything these issues are getting worse.

I get on my kids about using the passive voice when they !@#$ something up. "Daddy my car broke. My room got messy. My sister got hit."

No, fellas - YOU broke the car. You made your room a mess. You hit your sister. These things didn't just happen - you did them.

There's a lot of passive voice being used w/r/t the offense. "The execution wasn't crisp" or "Key mistakes cost us" or "The timing/communication was off..."

Somewhere in this exchange they need to stop with the passive voice. And it doesn't have to be publicly but I question how much of it is happening privately when we're still seeing so much of it. It can't keep being "The timing was off" - no, it needs to be "Skyy rolled his route again and threw the timing off - he's not playing as many snaps next week". Or "the mistakes killed us" becomes "Toney had his head up his ass and didn't manage to line up correctly - have a seat, champ..."

No more passive voice. No more 'the mistakes happened' - now it needs to become 'X,Y,Z made the mistakes - here are the consequences...'

That’s the problem when it comes to the let them play mindset. Had they did the same thing in the SB, KC might have lost. Everyone outside of KC disagreed with the defensive holding that was called. But it was called and in hindsight everyone knows it was a penalty and needed to be called. No difference with the Toney penalty. The photo images show that he wasn’t offsides by a fraction, he was clearly offsides. It was pre snap which meant the line judge had plenty of time to see it. It’s not a missed or called heat of the moment penalty.

Great post, Deej.

so if you are right the refs wanted Buffalo to win so badly why did they overturn Kelce's fumble? A game changing play. The ball was clearly moving and coming out before he was down. One could say the refs were for cheating for KC. And the week before two huge calls went for KC the plays before the PI call. So your the NFL want the Chiefs to lose narrative is very flawed to say the least.

Too much celebrity, and not enough football.

Even if it was ruled a fumble there was a clear recovery by Kelce. But I get what you're saying. If the team could play just a little better, they wouldn't be in these super tight games. Damn this one hurts real bad. What a great play by Kelce with that lateral.

We desperately miss EB

Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare).

The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given.

The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place.

The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties.

A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams.

I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.

It’s pretty clear he was lined up across the LOS. Anyone have a video or pic of the next play where the defender was across the LOS? I missed the play and haven’t seen a pic.

Yes he does. Last night might have been a wakeup call for him, but he's hit snooze button too many times to think he won't press snooze again.

Point is that Toney never should have put them in a position to allow the ref to determine the outcome.

He was blatantly offsides and the NFL has made offensive players lining up offsides a point of emphasis this season... this was like the 11th or 12th offensive offsides call this season.

Instead of crying about the refs, Andy should hold his WR's more accountable for their embarrassing play.

No one here can honestly believe that out of the 25,172 offensive snaps of Reid's career, this is the first time one of his players has lined up offsides on offense. That's ludicrous.

If there were zero advantage to lining up on the opposite side of the ball, it wouldn't be ****ing illegal to do so.

Good grief, guys.

Out of 25,000+ offensive snaps with Andy Reid as a HC, this is the most embarrassingly undisciplined and untalented WR group he's put on the field.

And that's quite a statement considering the dog shit WR groups he had in his early Philly and early KC years.

Can you remember another instance of a player on offense lined up that far offside?

FWIW it appears KT did not check with the line judge

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All 22 angle of the Kelce lateral/Toney offside play. Doesn&#39;t appear Toney once checks with the sideline judge on his side from this.<br><br>Also amazing job still from Kelce finding him in space. <a href="https://t.co/UyiVABuBSp">pic.twitter.com/UyiVABuBSp</a></p>&mdash; Shaun Newkirk (@Shauncore) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shauncore/status/1734071439869788421?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I also read that it has been called 11 times this season.

Yeah "players can line however they want" is not the argument that I'm making, so I'm not sure why you quoted me.

That play was a thing of beauty. What a tragedy

Well then you're doing a piss-poor job of making whatever your argument is, because you flat out say that Toney lining up a full yard ahead of where he should be isn't an advantage.

Which is nonsense.

Both Toney and Taylor need to be gone now, if we bench them maybe the NFL might quit picking on us.

Yeah, it's a point of emphasis this year, but I don't remember ever seeing an offensive player lined up beyond the fooball. He's not even lined up in the neutral zone, his (empty) head is lined up on the defensive side of the ball.

You think this WR group is worse than the year without a WR TD group?

They are just as bad.

That WR group could at least use the excuse that they had a QB who refused to look or throw downfield in Alex Smiff.

Bruh…. His whole body except his back leg is lined up past the ball

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This photo removes all doubt. 19 was blatantly offside. <a href="https://t.co/KD0R0Rvguy">pic.twitter.com/KD0R0Rvguy</a></p>&mdash; ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1734210600471822339?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And on the day that the Music City Miracle man passes....

Oh well. onto next week. If we don't absolutely slaughter the Patriots with all this rage and fury built up from this ...

Double check the new overhead picks released today - he was a good 2 feet offsides. Not even close. :shake:

We’re stuck with Taylor for at least another year. That contract is looking pretty bad right now. It’s crazy to me that he’s still making the same mistakes this far into the season. Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably would have been better off re-upping with Wylie and using the $ saved in a receiver.

Yep. Everyone keeps saying 6 inches. Not even close. If he was 6 inches I bet it doesn’t get called.

Here’s the warning… ITS IN THE ****ING RULE BOOK.. and you can’t be that far offsides and it won’t get called.. I look for Andy and Patrick to walk back their comments in their pressers…

The thing is with Taylor is that he’s not doing anything he hasn’t always done. It’s just he’s being called for it a a very high rate this year and it’s not like other linemen aren’t also doing it. It bothers me because he is being specifically targeted for it.

Photo

Toney’s head is literally lined up with Von Millers head lol. Toney is not a smart football player

The Chiefs would be 10-3 right now if Toney was not on their roster this season.

good comments... I agree
Guys like Toney are not good for this team.
in spite of his talent, he appears to be the bad luck charm.
The entire team needs to have a let's get all the issues on table meeting and start taking care of business.
They are 1 more loss away from throwing it all away

maaybe...but who knows after Mahomes and Reid hissy fit

Toney is a liability, yes he’s a good football player when he has the ball in his hands but the negatives outweigh the positive. You have to sit him next game. Continue to feed Jerry Rice Jr and Kelce and run Pacheco.

I mean… the refs would give Toney a lot of leeway if he was back a little. But there’s simply no explanation for lining that far up.

Toney was 100% offsides. It isn't even a question.

While I understand the gripes about the refs... KC did everything they could to loose that game starting with getting Mahomes a bunch of 3 legged stray dogs (not DAWGZ.... ***DOGS***) as receivers.

Part of me thinks Pat was even more furious because he thought it was Miller who had defensive offsides. The fact that Toney was so far forward may have confused him more

Still waiting for Greg Olsen to stand up for the Chiefs and explain how you can't all a penalty like that at that point in the game.

What? His knee was obviously down... The sideline hit on Pat is called 90% of the time against any notable QB, and it can be argued it was helmet to helmet. The chick missed the forward progress call, but we would have spiked it and lost maybe 5 seconds... The bigger issue is the inconsistencies through out the game. Watch the All-22 from last week and this week and tell me the holding calls the Chiefs are getting are more blatant than the holding that wasn't call throughout most of the game on the Packers and Bills? The blatant Packers hands to the face on a huge 3rd and 4th down conversions that ended in scoring drives. Or look at Taylor's "false start" yesterday compared to 2 other times the Bills tackles were way earlier... It's not just questions at the end of the game that's upsetting, they need to just be consistent...

The defender was not offside. Someone posted a picture of just after the snap that made it look like he was. It’s on Reddit and posted in other threads here.

He should be benched for a game, at a minimum. These WRs have shown ZERO professionalism or accountability. MVS' comments prior to yesterday were symbolic of the lack of personal responsibility by these WRs.


There's just no excuse for lining up offsides for a WR. Hell, Toney was looking at the ball, and just for reference's sake, whoever was lined up on the other side of the OL was lined up properly; he could've taken the hint from that guy and adjusted accordingly.

If this were just this one instance, ordinarily I'd be much more forgiving, but the lack of discipline and professionalism has been an issue since last season with Toney, and frankly with Skyy as well. A message should be sent to these guys in the form of a benching, and better now while there's still a chance it'll hit home and force a change in their habits and execution.

I actually thought Buffalo recovered it. That's why KC challenged the play. It was clearly coming out before he was down. If Kelce had a clear recovery why on earth would they need to challenge? :hmmm:

Can you post the endzone view? Toney is absolutely mauled 10 yards downfield and it should have been offsetting penalties. The endzone view really shows the contact and Toney is upset it wasn't called as he's gesturing to the refs before Kelce laterals the ball.

no not even close

:troll:

This view shows from the direct side and he is not horribly offside.

The next picture shows the very next play of the bills being offsides... same side, same official, no call...

The third picture shows the same toney "offsides" where the bills are also offsides... why is only one offsides when both players are in the nuetral zone?

What did MVS say? I must have missed it and I would love to add kindling to the roaring fire that is my hatreed for him.

There is a crystal clear photo of Toney from the overhead angle that is posted in this thread. He was so clearly offsides that his head was past Von Millers head lol. Bench this fraud. Justyn Ross gets his snaps next game

100%.

"Football is a game of inches". - Vince Lombardi Jr.

Him being 6 inches over the line matters.

You had said the refs wanted the Bills to win the game and were cheating for said outcome. If that was true they never would have reversed Kelce's fumble that was called a fumble on the field. If they were truly cheating for Buffalo that never would have been overturned. It was a fumble.

The original clip is posted somewhere in here, but I don't have time to run it down. This is an edited version of it, but you'll get the idea:
<iframe width="320" height="560" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OX2s0PcASHw" title="Chiefs MVS takes no BLAME for offensive STRUGGLES! 🤡 #chiefs #kansascitychiefs #chiefsnews #nfl" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So they were both offsides. Thet were watching us close so they could call something on us. They did and we lost.

No… Miller was behind the ball. That’s how far offsides Toney was. The only part of Toney not behind the ball was his back foot. He was literally helmet to helmet with Von Miller who is behind the ball

Toney never checked with the ref once….. even our police WR Rice on top of screen checks with the ref

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s the All-22 film on the Kelce lateral/Toney offsides play. <a href="https://t.co/62fThV5ZCN">pic.twitter.com/62fThV5ZCN</a></p>&mdash; how bout those CHIEFS (@hbtCHIEFS) <a href="https://twitter.com/hbtCHIEFS/status/1734260266748035561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Did you look at the pictures you posted? They don’t show what you say they do.

I'm guessing that mother ****er is just as done with us as we are with him.

The man has Zeus himself chucking lightning bolts and he is still a below pedestrian receiver. I get that WRs often have that fighter pilot mentality but this is a man that should understand that he should actually be flying "a plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong".

6 inches?

My brother in Christ, he was nearly a full yard over. He should be lined up where Rice is.

Toney had his toe on the hash which was the line of scrimmage so while he was offsides it looks worse then it really was.

The Chiefs still had 3 plays to get it right, but couldn't focus on the task at hand because they were too busy ****ing whining.

The ballad of the losers, and lose we did.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There are several reasons, and I go through them here, the game was over after the TD was called back. Even though the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#chiefs</a> ran 3 more plays after it, the game was over the minute that play was called back. My perspective from the sideline at Arrowhead on The Insiders <a href="https://t.co/5envqgl6uB">pic.twitter.com/5envqgl6uB</a></p>&mdash; James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/1734278459591893323?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Did you not see the overhead angle?

Jesus Christ. What an embarrassing lack of focus.

Players like him are why repeating as SB Champions is so hard. They get complacent after getting a ring and lose the fire. It’s also why Mahomes and Kelce are some of the greatest ever at their positions. They still have the fire. It’s also a trait that Brady (as much as I hate acknowledging it) had his whole career.

I really would like to see literally where the ball was placed by the ref, because Creed seems to always tip the ball up and back pre-snap.
It also appears that Toneys back foot is pretty much in line with Creeds.
It says its on the 49 on the score board and if so, Toney front foot is on the 49, which is very close to not being off sides.
Another note is the defensive line appears to see the LOS is the 49, not 49 1/2.

I've never been ashamed of Reid or his players until now.

This is Gunther-era embarrassment.