Really, is there a significant advantage 6-12" you get? Was it worth all this horse shit??? For **** sake????

There's zero advantage to a wide receiver lining up less than a yard offside. That's why it typically comes with a warning. It's inconsequential.

We got bent over by the refs. It's ok to admit that. It happens.

He was a lot further past the line than 4 inches. :doh!:

No, not really.

https://i.imgur.com/oJgTLDH.png

Everyone's been kind of gaslit into believing that because they've been looking at the views after Creed pulled the ball back to set up for the snap.

This all day, every day. Everyone says don't let it come down to the refs but it's the nfl. These teams are so close to each other in talent that one poor call can change an outcome.

I still don't like blaming one call though because no team plays a perfect game. But we can't dismiss poor officiating especially lopsided and inconsistent officiating.

Also this. The line of scrimmage is the 49. Not the 48 and 3/4 where creed has the ball.

I've totally changed my opinion on this based on what Orlovsky showed and what I saw last night. Toney did nothing wrong and Reid and Mahomes were right to tear into the dogshit officiating. This either shouldn't have been called or it should have been warned and then called in the first quarter.

Exactly. You cannot make that call without a warning, especially when it's been happening all game. Just can't do it.

Is there an advantage to offensive linemen lining up a bit past the line of scrimmage on a goalline play? Yeah, absolutely. But for a wide receiver in the slot? At midfield? On 2nd and 10? Get real. That's why they give warnings.

Lots of Chiefs fans seem to think they have to turn their man card in if they bitch about refs. It's a weird badge of honor for some.

Also in all other screenshots I've seen of this issue, the side judge has one foot on the blue line. This one has his foot to left of the line, which could have contributed to Toney being off.

What sucks is the ref pool report defense of this they mentioned not being able to see the ball. The ref didn't take into account that Creed moves the ball more than most centers because he likes to grab the point.

There were like 3 clear penalties in the Ravens walkoff punt return that weren't called. Multiple no-calls on a game deciding play

With Miami losing, it changes so many possible outcomes in the AFC

So many butthurt Toney supporters.

I can't wait for him to be off this team.

"Yung Joka" :rolleyes:

Doesn't matter who else does it, move the **** back 4 inches.

I'm with you here. If you don't want a chance at being called for something, don't do it. The rule says don't go past the line....so don't go past the line.

A cop can give you a ticket for going 1 mph over the posted speed limit, even if the 40 cars in front of you were going 20 mph over. Is the cop a dick? Yes. Does that mean you weren't breaking the law? Absolutely not.

Yep don't put yourself at the mercy of the refs. Especially when Cheffers is in town.

And I’m definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but isn’t it interesting that he lined up offsides the entire game and not once was anybody warned about it and then with one minute left they call it? Why not call it in the first quarter or the second quarter or the third quarter when he was offsides why wait until one minute left on one of the most important place of the game?

The very next day after a huge national discussion over this and on national tv you don't call it???

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

So what we heard the week before that one of the worst DPI non-calls in recent years was because the WR was not restricted from making a play on the ball, even though he very much was.

Now it's well, I know I let you do it all game and you didn't think you were doing anything wrong but I finally decided I would call you even though what you did had no bearing on the play.

ROFL

Anybody who wants to put all the blame on Toney can get ****ed. He looked to the sideline official for approval just like he’s supposed to. Not sure why Reid said otherwise (probably told to back off). This was a bullshit ****ing call.

Because he didn't. The video on social he is still moving. He needs to be set. before looking for confirmation.

To me it looks more like he is checking to see if Kelce is on the line or not.

There is plenty of blame for Toney but if he was doing something all game and never got called then the Ref needed to STFU. That's 2 weeks in a row the Refs impacted critical plays one way or another.

The restricting DPI call was deemed unrestricting and the non-restricting offsides was somehow needing to be called after not being called all game

Yeah he did not look over long enough for anyone to respond.

Heard something interesting on the radio.. I’m not excusing Toney by any means but sometimes the center moves the ball when he sets up to snap it.. Could be that Toney was on the sticks and the ball before Creed grabbed it and got it in his comfortable position to snap it to Mahomes..
This doesn’t excuse Toney for being way too far forward but could give some perspective…

Typically, Cs move the ball about 3-6 inches when they put their hand on it.


But regardless, Toney has been lining up so close to the neutral zone that he's in it a lot of the time. He's just asking for a ref to throw a flag. I don't care if he was lining up like that the whole game. It's the last drive, and we had to have the score. He lined up in a spot that gave the ref the opportunity to throw a flag, and sink our chances of making the comeback.

That's just Dee Ford stupid.

Except the ref doesn't need to STFU unless the league office tells him to. Would it be nice if he had? Sure, but Toney was clearly offsides, and the official is under no obligation to let him off with a warning no matter how many times he did so on previous plays.

Bottom line, don't ever give the refs a green light to throw a flag for such a dumb penalty. Move the **** back.

Yeah, actually the Ref does need to STFU. Bottom line call it or don't but don't decide after not calling it for 58 minutes you're suddenly going to call it.

How do you know that? It doesn't take much for a Ref to acknowledge.....

Long reign McDermott! Leader of men! his brainness is a lighter shade of gray

Nah, bud. Schwartz and Dan both were pretty clear about it: Toney didn't ask the refs about his alignment. He glanced over basically to tell the ref "I'm on ball," but never 'asked' about his alignment the whole game, according to Orlovsky and others.

This one is different than the Mclaurin fiasco last season. I watched that game, and Terry was on the far side, with the ref about 15 feet from him. He quite clearly asks the ref about his alignment, then moves his front foot a couple inches back, and the ref nods. Then, once Terry looks back at the ball and away from the ref, you can see the ref reach for his waist, where his flag is, and as soon as the ball is snapped, he throws it. That was utter BS, imo.


What Toney does isn't even close to what Terry did.

lol if the chiefs losing saves McDermott's job

I'm kinda okay with it if that's the case

Buffalo D choked again under McDermott but were bailed out by the refs.

I'm pretty sure it did. He failed to kill the clock adequately in their last drive and force our timeouts. He was once again going to be blamed for choking late. Don't think he would have overcome it.

He would never have called it if Toney had simply lined up properly. It's 100% on Toney, and not the officials.

This would be my biggest gripe at this point.

If the official was standing in the wrong spot and Toney looked up past the ball and at the official to determine the LOS, then the official is the problem.

I really don't know at this point. Is that official the 'real' LOS? We know it's not the blue line. And Creed could've moved the ball back after Toney lined up. Ultimately isn't the official SUPPOSED to be standing at the LOS there? If so, it would seem that yeah - we might've gotten rat-****ed here.

He didn't call it the other 3 or 4 times so.....once again he needed to STFU

Exactly.

Just like CJ, when he lined up where he always does, didn't move, gave the ref the opportunity, and got called for encroachment.

Well I AM a conspiracy factist and that is exactly what happened.

You do realize you're just making excuses for the Refs not calling games consistently, right? That's pretty much the essence of the entire argument.

And this isn't even a judgement call like say a PI. Or at least not to the same degree. As much as Toney has blame you can't excuse a Ref for seeing this all game and not calling it until the last 2 minutes.

That's like a working for a boss that watches you doing something wrong for months and not saying anything and then when it's review time he drops the bomb knowing you might not have realized you were doing something wrong because he never said anything until it mattered.

Completely agree with you.

Was pointing out the fact that, like Alice in Wonderland, "When a ref throws a flag,’ Humpty Cheffers said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what the ref chose it to mean — neither more nor less."

When KaTo lined up the exat same way on the other plays, it wasn't "egregious". But when the game was on the line, it somehow *was*.

Was pissed when the league put clams on each ref squad. Now I realize they're *all* clams, some just have longer hair and tits.

It's too bad that the offsides call overshadowed the absolute faceplant that McDermott displayed on the previous drive. My buddy and I couldn't believe the utter dogshit clock management.

My biggest issue is that the one ref said this was a point of emphasis this year. OK, then why didn't you call Toney on it every other time he did it? They have no problem calling penalties on our o-line multiple times a game.

They lied, it was a point of emphasis on the Tush Push, and that's all its really been called on this year...

Haven’t read all this, but here’s the deal MFers…

Anyone siding with the refs and/or throwing Mahomes and Andy under the bus is full of shit. Like Nick Wright said, they’re the defense attorney for somebody who was pulled over for going 36 in a 35.

1st time since ‘95. 1st for Andy in 25,000 plays or whatever. And in this “point of emphasis” year, it had been called on a WR twice before the other night. Even though it happens constantly (which is easily proven).

It wasn’t egregious like dipshit Cheffers claimed. It was the same thing he’d done all night. Bush league shit. But well worth it if it awoke a monster.

Last week we got told our WR getting absolutely mugged didn't effect the play. This week it's well, yeah, um, reasons....

Not to mention a lot of these letter-of-the-law assholes were the same people who threw a two week bitch fit last year that this shouldn't have been called.

https://i.imgur.com/LPxkd2m.jpg

Yup. They're completely full of shit.

Agreed. And I may hate Toney more than anyone on this board

Again here is the problem that was stated earlier for those who are not chiefs fans and just don't get it...

Q1 there are two times Toney is on the line, Both times he is lined up as far forward as he was in the penalty line judge right there looking at it and neither time calls a penalty. So no one knows on the chiefs he is doing anything wrong.

Q2, he lines up three times at the same distance offsides, nothing called and no conversation with anyone on the chiefs or Toney that he did anything wrong.

Q3 he lines up two times off sides and again same distance and no flag even with the line jude looking down the line.

Q4 two times he lines up offside and not call...THEN with a minute left in a critical situation they call it , was it the right call? sure, but if you don't call it all game even though it did it over and over, and its only been called 2 times this year on anything other than the tush push, then lets be real, they F**ked us, period....

Look its ok, refs can do what they want to do I guess but because of the previous 6 times he was equally offisdes and nothing was called is the refs basically saying to the chiefs... all good... then saying... "NOOOOO you can't do that"

Imagine trying to raise a toddler this way, ok honey, lets go poddy, and you say this and they poddy each time, then after 6 times you scream at them and tell them " NO DON"T PODDY" I mean what the H**l are you supposed to think.

The refs F'ed up and the F'ed up big time. Two games now we have been screwed by them, its what it is and we move on.

from my vantage point, they did their job(s) correctly... there was going to be a penalty on that play irregardless(false start, hold, etc...), KC wasn't winning that game. KT had been lining up like that the whole game and when he lined up for that play the ref knew he had it in his pocket(pun intended). Too much $ involved with gambling, etc., and with part time refs that purposely aren't held accountable, games are steered to desired outcomes... status quo, unfortunately nothing will change.

If they are going to get in bed with Gambling, then the officials need to be held accountable, and they not only aren't held accountable, but they are defended to the end by the NFL. It can't continue or the product becomes untrusted by the consumer/gamblers.

I already made that comparison. 36 in a 35 is breaking the law. The cop being an asshole doesn't change that fact. Piss and moan all you want, but if the driver had simply slowed down by 1 mph, it wouldn't be an issue.

So if you were pulled over for going 36 in a 35, and you found out it was the only time anyone in the region had been pulled over for this in 30 years, you'd be cool with it?

Another analogy is an officiating crew allows two basketball teams to hammer each other in the post all night without calling any fouls, then decides to call a touch foul on the perimeter that negates a game-winning shot.

It doesn't matter if the driver is "cool with it" or not. His opinion is irrelevant. Don't want a ticket? Don't speed. Your feelings mean jack shit.

You're missing the point, there isn't a cop that would pull anyone over for doing 36 in a 35 and write them a ticket. They don't exist and if they did, in the worse case, they would give them a warning saying, hey, I'm a letter of the law type of cop, if i clock you going 36 again, I will probably write you a ticket.

Of course 99.99% of cops would never write such a ticket, but it's within their right to do so, and everyone knows it.

and I think we are progressing to that point... every week there is a different issue, the problem though(which is good for the NFL) is that for every 'issue' there's roughly 50% that were affected negatively and 50% positively...

Great, so now you understand Andy's frustration. You can't have .01%, 1, of the officials making that call without a warning.

Also the cops from the same department watched someone break into your house and were like "doesn't look like anything to me" a week earlier

Spot on

It's ****ing bullshit to not call it all game, not correct it, then call it in that spot.

Except you can, because it happened.

Yes, thus the anger from Andy. It was wrong and not consistent. Sure they can do it... they can throw a flag on any play for something. Glad you finally realize the fact it was BS.

Fact of the matter is that Toney was offside. Whether it was called the previous 5 times he gave an opportunity for a flag to be thrown or not.

It's not in the rule book, hey, if I'm too ****ing stupid to see that I'm lined up past the football, warn me first.

Do not give the officials the opportunity to throw flags, and they won't throw the flags.

I've been breaking the rule all night and you said nothing about those isn't a valid excuse.

All this does now is put a Jawaan Taylor level of spotlight on all of our players on the line now.

Don't be surprised if this is something that is called again down the stretch.

And in our case we know the cop is the most racist, angry, incompetent officer in town. We knew this going in and, if anything, knew we needed to avoid dealing with them at all costs.

Exactly. Haven't we all watched our speed while driving through some small town where the cops are known to be stickler assholes? Cheffers is Rosco P. Coltrane and Buford T. Justice rolled into one.

i understand the frustration of refs letting something go all game and then calling it late. that being said, is it possible the ref didn't notice this earlier in the game? seems like a hard thing to miss, but we know incompetence is a safe assumption here. maybe in his mind he wasn't letting it go.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also these 3 from Cheffers games within the last month… yet no flags? It was 100% a penalty by the letter of the law, but if you aren’t going to consistently call something then you shouldn’t be doing it at all. <a href="https://t.co/nLioejrlHo">pic.twitter.com/nLioejrlHo</a></p>&mdash; TTRR����YY.eth (@TTRR00YY) <a href="https://twitter.com/TTRR00YY/status/1735080200868884912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Still pissed.

Did someone post an image of Toney's alignment before the ball was picked up by the Center? I really would like to see that image.

Vote in a new sheriff or get the mayor to dump the head of the police department.

Cops and/or referees should be replaceable.

I am seeing your point but I dont' think you are seeing the big picture of what I'm trying to say.

Becuase he lined up in the same spot all game, the ref SHOULD have said something or better yet.... Throw the flag, in the first quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter, heck the first half of the fourth.... the REASON i'm saying its on the ref is not because they did or didn't THROW THE FLAG.... the reason im blaming this on the refs is because they DIDN"T throw the flag UNTIL that exact moment....

Thats the point... Was it wrong to throw the flag because he is offsides, its because the officals didn't throw a flag when they had 6 plus easy throws... thats on them.

The league wants drama til the end. Now the division races in both the AFCW & AFCE will not be wrapped up for weeks, and possibly not til the 18th week.

The Toney talk is keeping everyone from talking about the Bills' Organizational Triumph. -Bills Insecure Whiners

Yeah, really. He was nearly 2 feet offsides. You need glasses.

Trying to say he wasn't blatantly offsides is moronic.

Saying it shouldn't have been called or wasn't called on others is a different argument.

Look on the bright side and look at your tackles. It's an illegal formation as well.

Do you really think that is 2 feet? 24 inches... 2/3rd of a yard...


How big do you think KT's feet are?


Does everything look that big to you?

This is what I was wondering

This. Rigged.