“Do we have time to run WASP?”

No Patrick. You don’t have time to run anything deep.

It's all just off, but it happens. All the greats inevitably have a meh year or two.

I wouldn’t call it a disaster. It’s still obviously good enough to win close games against even good teams. We can win ugly when our defense inevitably snaps back into shape for the playoff stretch. And our offense will undoubtedly improve to at least “good enough” as Humphreys and dhop get worked in.

We mostly need a few games of consistency and reliability and it will click again for mahomes. Humphreys obviously helps. I know people want to say thuney was lockdown but mahomes needs to see a few games of it and we put so much into chip help this game and that really limits what we can do with receiving targets. Hollywood helps way more than I think we give credit for. I like worthy but he’s just too inexperienced to heal a broken qb. What we’ve been missing for a few years is a guy who can adjust and catch up to a deep ball. Someone called it over the shoulder, but I think of it as more a guy who can hit that second gear when the ball is a little overthrown. For whatever reason it doesn’t feel like that mahomes worthy connection has worked yet but I think it will with Hollywood until Mahomes gets a full offseason of work with worthy

Offense hasn't been the same without Rice.

They haven't overcome that loss yet.

Moving your all pro guard to play tackle is going to effect the run game.

Reid said that was Caliendo's first full game at guard.

That said, with the lead and the game winding down, running the ball takes more time off the clock. Even if you don't get a first down.

Thankfully the D/ST's are playing really well.

Yeah, they had to play their LG at LT and it wasn't an absolute disaster. Got in, got a double digit win, got out.

The Rice loss just isn't talked about like it should be (Hollywood too).

Mahomes was playing some pretty bad football even with Rice. Actually may have been his worst stretch of the year. Suamataia getting annihilated by the Bengals ****ed his confidence something fierce.

Eh I don’t know about that. When rice was here mahomes developed tunnel vision. And our offense was built around long dink and dunk drives. It worked end of last year but we make too many mistakes on offense for this to be sustainable. If we trust in veach he knew the best way to unlock Mahomes again was to get him some speed threats. That’s why he brought in not 1 but 2 speed threats. I like rashee as a player more than Hollywood, but Hollywood was the loss that really hurt.. for the time being given mahomes’ current issues

Same exact thing is happening to Stroud. Need to hit OL hard this offseason

Yeah, he focused on Rice, he was always open.

This whole "spread it around to weapons" thing alot of times is speak for "we don't have anyone good so throw it to everyone".

It feels like a ping pong match. Teams foiled us with 2 deep, we adjusted the next year, defenses adjusted to us which opened up offenses for throw chuckers like stroud and tua, teams throttled back into 2 deep this year.

The problem was he developed tunnel vision. It’s not about spreading out equal targets. It’s about creating just enough credibility in a deep game to open up the rest of our offense. Even with rashee that was badly lacking and over dependence on long plodding drives isn’t always ideal when your OL is extremely error prone and your WRs still drop too many.

I think we can all agree that if Mahomes can be reasonably better throwing to worthy this offense looks very different.

What is wrong with Mahomes' deep ball?
 

I went back and watched the miss to Worthy in the end zone that happened with 7:50 to go in the second quarter. It’s just an inexcusably bad throw. Any first time starter or seasoned veteran should be making the throw at the very least within reach 9/10 times. He was off by like 10 yards. This play is set up perfectly and he has nobody within 8 yards of him in the pocket. The only explanation is he’s not trusting what’s happening which is Worthy is essentially wide open. Any explanation that puts this on the line or Worthy just isn’t being honest.

The photos show up perfect on mobile but not sure about desktop.

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:rolleyes:

Losing your #1 and #2 WR(with no playing time) is going to effect every QB.

We don't need the deep ball to win.
People just like to see it aired out.

We lost Rice because Mahomes was playing so badly and so turnover prone at the start of the season that he ended up injuring Rice on an interception return. We can't act like things were rosey when Rice was here.

And it was 10 ****ing weeks ago and we replaced him with DHop. We saw the Bills add a WR midseason also and their QB is the MVP favorite.

Not to mention Kelce has regressed and was Pat's favorite target.

Why a TE was putting up WR numbers.

When Mahomes has time to plant his feet, he's deadly.

But you’re ignoring that even with rashee dominating something just felt off. I think a few weeks with Hollywood would have made a huge difference in fixing mahomes. But we never got a chance to do it. Mahomes isn’t going to be some elite deep ball thrower. This isn’t about throwing 70 yard bombs left and right. He’s not really that qb anymore. This is about opening up an intermediate game to open up the short game. We’ve seen with worthy alone that this is there for us if we could just execute

On top of that we’re struggling to create big scores which has put lots of pressure on a pretty average red zone offense. And we struggle on third and long which isn’t ideal for an OL that commits lots and lots of penalties.

I trust in veach. You don’t think it’s telling that he brought in not 1 but 2 speed options? All while cutting Mvs as a statement that they need to do things differently?

I guess we're rolling out the Alex Smith defense of the starting QB now.

Nick Jacobs echoed what I was posting last night which is that it felt like the offense was trying to work on certain things whether they were there or not, despite having open underneath routes all afternoon, and it wrecked their rhythm in the second half.

It was truly like a boring Madden game to them in the way they approached 2nd half plays, and Mahomes paid a price for it.

Without a ton of top tier QB options in this draft it should be less expensive to trade up for a legit LT. There are 8 teams that need QB and possibly 2 or 3 QB's worth taking. Some of those teams will want to trade out and nobody is going to pay max price without a QB there to trade up for.

Similar to when KC had the no 1 pick. Now, it won't be that deflated because there actually is talent in this draft and that year might have been the largest talent drought in the last 20 years. It's just an example...

Echoes what I posted last night. Mahomes is thinking too much.

I watched the deep shot to Watson again on NFL+. The playcall was clearly “get the ball downfield”. The extra blockers was set up for it and Mahomes eyes were on Watson the entire play.

They are treating this like practice instead of just letting Mahomes go through reads.

No these are basic throws that any starting qb should make.

At least you know there’s meat on the bone and Patrick said it at his presser — he’s gotta trust the system and just go through the reads as they’re designed.

Lock in for this run and there’s no reason they can’t win some ball games 27-24 against even the best opponents. There is no dominant defense out there, only Philly is close.

Yeah, Ty Johnson had a 100 yard game yesterday. I think there's some truth to the hundred things we talk about here.... new receivers, injured receivers, shitty receivers, offensive line issues, etc.

But we've seen the offense when it's dialed in to win a game or whatever the situation several times this season and then we've seen.... *vaguely gestures* ...that. And we all assume the switch will flip in a few weeks and all is fine, which negates much of what we excuse as "it's everything/everybody EXCEPT Mahomes".

Nah, some of it is on him to flip that switch, especially when playing this way is getting you killed.

ROFL

I thought that deep ball to Hopkins looked pretty good.

Also, Thuney played pretty well at LT.

He’s overthinking everything, including the deep ball. By the time he pulls the trigger, he’s overcompensating on the deep balls by overthrowing.

He’s going to “flip the switch” once Humphries helps solidify the left side of the OL, Hollywood provides another trustworthy option at all 3 levels and he’s able to get the offense normalized more.

Everything’s been moving pieces all season

Lost Hollywood right away when it they were absolutely building some good chemistry
The revolving horror that has been our LT position (bleeds into EVERYTHING ELSE) including many games where the LT play was so bad a blocking dummy would have literally had the same results.
I’m sure him essentially hurting Rice for the year still weighs on him
2 babies
Pacheco getting hurt
Taylor swift distractions
Tough schedule
Kelce hitting a wall

Even without all of that, passes over 25 yards in the air have the lowest completion % league wide

Hopefully, the ankle didn’t turn into a mango this morning and the final version of this offense is coming together when it actually matters. Pat will settle in and get us the ring.

Well... at least our quarterback doesn't show up to games dressed like 80s movie theater carpet.


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That def deserves a rep but it says i have to spread it around so you're SoL punk!

I really think Hollywood makes a big difference. We’ve been taking really good shots at dhop and kelce deep but these guys aren’t going to create the separation Mahomes is used to. A guy who can compensate for passes that could be a touch overthrown is huge. One thing I miss about tyreek is how he could accelerate just enough to catch up to a throw. Worthy and hardman have elite straight line speed, but I just feel like Hollywood will help us a lot here

This.

Was everything around Mahomes that bad yesterday for him not to perform better?

Cleveland got some pressures, but the pass protection wasn’t bad.

Receivers were getting open downfield.

We keep thinking it's "when this guy gets back or when we add that".

I look around the league and see other guys hitting deep balls to any ol fella and wonder "why can't we do that"?

I think a lot of went on in the 2nd half was frustration. They really want to get this passing game going and was a bit blinded my their obsession.

Are the Chiefs offensive line and skill position players that much worse than Buffalo’s currently?

Ever hear the saying "for every hot chick out there there's a guy who's tired of banging her"?

Paraphrasing but it's close to the original.

You know the answer - Mahomes deep ball is simply off this year. He missed Kelce for a huge play yesterday, he misses Worthy it seems like once every game, etc.

Hopefully he gets it going by the playoffs similar to how our WRs stopped w the drops at the right time like last season.

No I’ve said from the very beginning of the season that Hollywood was the key ingredient we’ve needed. Even after we lost rashee, I felt that way. I don’t want to say he has the yips but when it comes to downfield throwing he does. This was and still is mahomes’ biggest yip right now and much as I like worthy, I just don’t think he has the experience or chemistry to do what I think Hollywood can do with just a little time to gel.

Right now we need supporting talent to elevate mahomes. Once you’ve fixed him he can go back to him elevating others. But at this stage we have to go beyond just asking him to figure stuff out

Meh, it's been an issue this year without having to state all the obvious things like how nobody here is saying* we need a better QB or he's no longer the one QB you want on your team, etc.



*that's what GDTs are for LMAO

Their offensive line (particularly their tackles) are better than ours. I would give them the edge at the skill positions too. We don’t have a running back with big-play ability like Cook.

Strouds is more to do with the league adjusting to him and Slowik's offense.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes&#39; deep ball in 2022 vs 2024.<br><br>22 - Seems more decisive, fluid, w/ anticipation &amp; in rhythm.<br><br>24 - Uncertain, trying to place the ball, rushed, and &quot;see it, throw it&quot; <a href="https://t.co/ZnhxeMjSEi">pic.twitter.com/ZnhxeMjSEi</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1868701409941897325?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Kelce wide ass open for 15+ on that shot to Worthy yesterday.

That’s one where you can’t tell me he didn’t pre-determine where he was throwing it. That’s so unlike Pat.

That first one to Worthy for 2024 from yesterday was so bad. It’s a pass you know you are doing from the start and it was terribly overthrown. It’s the same one I posted pictures of earlier. And of course all of those 2024 misses were perfect pockets but those don’t count as good protection or something I guess.

Rice was giving Mahomes what Kelce used to give him. Losing Rashee was devastating for this offense.

I love Kelce to death but he’s not what he was. He’s not breaking tackles for YAC, he’s not consistently beating man coverage. I think Mahomes being off is an underlying Kelce problem. He used to be in a spot where the ball is but now he’s not getting there as fast and it results in a missed throw.

There’s no juice on the offense aside from Worthy and sometimes Pacheco. Kelce, Hopkins, Watson, Juju, Kareem. These guys are old and slow now and it’s painfully obvious.

We need Hollywood back in the worst way

Why would he not? It was probably called for Worthy, it was first down, and Worthy was pretty much wide open as well. You have to throw that ball.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These are gone from the lexicon entirely. <a href="https://t.co/3kVQfSBOFK">pic.twitter.com/3kVQfSBOFK</a></p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1868706934410650039?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hopefully it’s like a three point shooter in a cold streak… just needing to see one go through the basket… Mahomes just needs to hit on one of these deep throws to start getting over this mental hurdle.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also kinda funny... of the Chiefs ~35 throws over 20 yards, 16 have been to Worthy.</p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1868701870702895199?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Happened multiple times. Either Pat was going full reerun or the coaching staff was. Absolutely no reason to dial up repeated deep shots when you're up multiple scores playing with an LG at LT. Unfortunately they actually got bit by doing it as well.

I'm rooting for Patrick as much as anyone but I can imagine how it's easy to become content after 2 super bows, kids, and being financially set for life.

Never thought I'd see this level of success and Squirmin Herman Edwards owes me free wedgie for almost killing my spirit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes used to be the boogeyman vs the blitz.. and now? Feels like a total dice roll if they even get a pass off.</p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1868394131560743018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Begging you guys to watch the game and focus on our receivers. Kelce is NOT the same Kelce from 2022. He’s 35. He’s clearly lost a step.

The pass to Kelce looked slightly off. It really looks like Mahomes is used to throwing to a spot Kelce used to be in and now he’s not getting there as fast.

Seriously. Watch Kelce specifically. He’s slowed down A LOT

What? Watch you whore mouth... 3 Superbowls.... ;)

That’s not wide open re: Worthy yesterday. Would’ve taken a perfect throw to avoid the safety on his backside and corner falling deep in front.

Just take the easy profit to Kelce.

Watch Mahomes head. He never turns it. It’s a 1 read play through and through.

That tells me Andy is specifically wanting him to work on his deep pass and he’s not doing progressions.

Again. Too much thinking.It’s reminding me of the line from Top Gun: Maverick. “Trust your instincts. Don’t think. Just do”

Mahomes used to catch heat for "drifting back in the pocket." Technique wise it's not ideal, I get that. But it would buy him an extra second before the rush got to him and I wonder if he throws a better deep ball when he's drifting backwards a little.

Now he runs forward into pressure and gets smoked.

As I've said before Kelce is better at TE than anyone ever. Expecting Patrick to play as good as he did during Kelces prime probably wont ever happen again unless we reload with WR playmakers. Im hoping Hollywoods return makes a dent and LT is fixed by Humphries though for this year.

That’s bc teams adjusted to not let him out of the pocket often. SF used that gameplan beautifully in the SB and it worked most of the game.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes’s accuracy on the deep ball is like a 5th grader at the urinal.</p>&mdash; Carrington Harrison (@cdotharrison) <a href="https://twitter.com/cdotharrison/status/1868371283496386736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cautiously optimistic

On the Browns shot to Worthy...there's no way the drop back is actually designed like that in the playbook right? Open up left, turn and fake handoff to the right. Turn again to the left for some reason. Finally turn right to throw. No way that's the actual play design.

Actually I've seen that before. That's how it's designed. That actually looks fairly fluid, he just overcooked it. He overcooked it because he wants to err on the side of overthrowing because of Worthy's speed, and his latent yips from being picked.

No it's not, he's being incredibly jumpy in the pocket and not setting properly.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Like that throw to Worthy... he turned like he was turning in a double play and short armed the throw w/o being even threatened by any pressure. Got zero drive and it just flew out the back of the EZ.</p>&mdash; Matt Lane (@Matty_KCSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matty_KCSN/status/1868373214550016435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 15, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Look at the Broncos miss at :55

He saw the LT appear to be beating the LT again and it sped him up. Look at his footwork. Rushed. No anticipation and poor footwork.

That’s what happens when your QB gets knocked to the ground all game

Man....so is it ever the high paid QB that's gonna have to figure it out or are we always on the LT or the WRs or the coaches?

It's kinda frustrating because with the amount of money he makes he is gonna have to cover some of the holes his contract causes.

If he legit needs to have 5 outstanding linemen and high end weapons then he can't be paid like that.

It’s as bad as it’s ever been and Mahomes is still being Mahomes when it matters.

7 game winning drives. He’s still Mahomes in the clutch

I love Mahomes as much as the next guy, but I think this upcoming offseason, Mahomes needs to focus on getting some things cleaned up with his game. I know he spends considerable time with his flexibility and throwing to his guys offseason, but has he spent anytime with a QB guru in the offseason. Someone that can get him to focus on his mechanics that gives him a base to go back to when he is struggling like now. Even Peyton Manning, who was as fundamentally sound as any QB that has played, spent considerable time with guys to work on his throwing mechanics. Now seems like the time for Mahomes to seek a new outside eye to help him clean up his game going forward and getting back to where he has been for most of his career.

Yeah, until he stops winning Super Bowls (and more realistically, falling shorter than OT of a playoff game multiple times), not going to extrapolate beyond needing to get his head on straight here in a few weeks (which of course we're all assuming anyway).

This was my comment in the post gane thread. The chiefs did this exact thing with the Bengals two years ago and completely locked down their offense in the playoff game. Bills want to beat the chiefs so bad they aren't patient enough. They need the confidence boost of any win, even regular season wins.

Maybe just maybe don’t surround him with guys who are bottom 5 at their respective position. We aren’t talking about passable players at WR last year or LT this year. We’re talking about starting guys who are unrosterable. These guys play a very big part in why he sees ghosts even when they do their job.

Given the current circumstances where these guys have ****ed away his confidence and trust, yes it may take some extra help to get him right.

Who's un roster able?

My god can we treat the guy with more kid gloves?

You wanna be an all time great and make all the $ and fame? Yeah, you're gonna have to cover for some shit in a capped league.

Wanya and Kingsley are not playable. Watson is not really playable. Kareem, Hopkins and Kelce are older now. Not as good.

It’s not been a good supporting cast. Same exact thing is happening to Stroud

Are we going to compare Patrick Mahomes to CJ Stroud? Is that what you're saying here?

Toney, skyy moore, Ritchie James, Justyn Ross last year was unrosterable. Mvs was cut by buffalo midseason. We picked up mecole after the jets deemed him unrosterable. We picked up juju after the pats deemed him unrosterable. Justin Watson probably is a bubble WR at best. The WRs right now are adequate enough by now to get the job done but last years piece of shit WR corps has undoubtedly given him PTSD.

Wanya and Kingsley at their current level of play are barely rosterable, maybe.

We aren’t talking about backups. We’re talking about guys with large roles who can’t even make a 53 man roster. Look mahomes has some issues to deal with but your insistence that a large part of that isn’t due to really really bad players in positions he really depends on is nonsense. We had the worst WR room in the league last year and this year we have easily bottom 5 LT play. We aren’t talking about bringing in Trent Williams. We’re talking about at least a serviceable LT.

When Brady was handed a shit sandwich with reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney the very next year they went out and got moss and Wes welker. Just because he is a great qb doesn’t mean he doesn’t need help when he’s in a slump.

Feel free to compare it to Brady’s last year in NE where it was similar and he looked like shit.

Why do you think he left?

PMII needs some fresh eyes. Maybe bring in someone like John Beck (QB guru) to get an outside opinion. Nothing against PMII's current private coach, Jeff Christensen. But sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can help with the yips or other issues.

I also wonder if Reid does too. Of course he’s still at the top of his game but our offensive coaching staff has been pretty inbred for a while. We got a lot out of Brad Childress researching all kinds of offensive concepts. Feel like it’s time to push the button one more time.

Agree. Seems like the offensive play-calling isn't always in sync with the strengths and weaknesses of the players. A fresh perspective might be the reset the offense needs. Even if it's just a few small improvements.