That may be going a bit far on Joeckel. Mid-1st round pick maybe, in a stronger class. Maybe in the 20s. Mid-2nd seems a little overkill.

I would agree re: Fisher.

Kiper said in a normal draft Joeckel would be a 15-32 pick.

He's nowhere close to being the same type of player that guys like Okung, Long and Thomas were at the same stage.

Personally, I don't think he's as good as Clady or Costanzo or Solder or Sherrod or Oher at the same stage. And I don't think he's as good as Barrett Jones, who, as a junior, won the Outland Trophy at left tackle and just absolutely dominated guys from that spot.

And from what I saw this past year, he wasn't even the best offensive tackle on his college team.

RunKC is one of those weird dudes who refuses to like Geno regardless of how much production, information, et al. is out there that points to Geno absolutely being the top QB in this draft, and, IMO, the top prospect in this draft. He's fought against Geno for the better part of four months now and has been throwing out guys left and right trying to say that they are a better prospect than Geno. He's about the only guy left at this point (along than MahiMike). Personally, I think it's got to do with something beyond the football field, but whatev's.

Nope its either Geno or Fisher.

Possible butthurt about Tyler Wilson?

Remember how we all wanted Eric Berry in 2010 but we all thought there was no chance we draft him because of Piolis comment?

Hopefully, we have a similar high five session this year when we get what we want again.

Turned into a good thread. My logic was dumb, but I wanted to pose it anyways. So many people will be upset if we don't draft Geno, I didn't figure a whole lot of people would be upset if we did. So why the **** are we arguing this so much?

I don't know, but he's turned into a major negativist tool.

Maybe he's just so far up Kiper's butthole that he can't see the forest for the trees.

Not all of us did.

And Berry, despite his two Pro Bowl nods, needs to show up this next year as something other than the second best inside linebacker on the team.

Who says they don't believe in Albert you stupid ****? Andy Reid wanted to draft him, but the Chiefs beat him to the punch. Not to mention Dorsey said Albert is the future for us at LT...

Says who? The idiots on ESPN & NFLn? You do what is best for the future of the team. Trading a proven LT for a lesser and unproven LT is not good for the team now, and likely not later.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush. If Geno fails, we're out the #1 pick. If Joeckel were to fail, we're out the #1 and a top LT in the league.

What makes you so sure that they won't?

Is it not possible that they are letting his signing wait in order to confuse others about our draft intentions? You sign him now and Joker and Fisher are moot. If you go into the draft without having signed him, and draft Joeckel/Fisher #1, his trade value deflates. All of a sudden you're desperate to get rid of him.

10¢ head vs a smart QB like Geno. Gee, totally fair.