TRUTH!
And I for one applaud them for doing so! :clap:

Initially I was pissed, but after sleeping on it I feel better.

We can all agree that Clark will have an instant impact. Looking at his highlights, he plays with a mean streak that this team sorely needs.

But I still don't like how Veach seems to get hosed when trading draft picks. He's not very good at negotiating.

I know that TwistedChief is happy with the trade. I was simply answering his question.

should we go through the list of all the people we would have drafted in the first round if you had been the GM?

A friend of mine has turned into Duncan...basically telling the domestic violence makes it a bad deal.

All I told him was if you have no desire to be on the ride then get off.

I really need the chiefs to extend Schwartz though

The Rams couldn’t get a 2nd for Peters today.

The 49ers would not to be able to get a 2nd for Ford after next year either.

Veach clearly won the Alex trade.

This narrative is stupid.

LOL, sure go ahead, it's no different than anyone else even guys working in the NFL, everyone has hits and misses.

People today are overvaluing draft picks far more than they should be.

The defense we have today wouldn't have cost us the game against the Pats last year. IMO

Lol. So your argument is if you don't agree with the Chiefs bringing in yet another guy with domestic violence in his past you should stop being a fan?

Clark is better than Ford in every way. He's better than Ford + Houston in every way. It's a major upgrade, and we still have benefits coming to the front 7's play from an improved scheme and anyone we might add to the linebacker spots. I don't know why anyone would be against this.

Do people wish we had stayed at #29 and ended up with a developmental prospect, or traded down when there was nothing thrilling at #29 - ending up with a couple of special teams players who probably won't get many snaps at all? Who would be starting if not for Clark? How is that an acceptable compromise?

How can anyone be mad that we went to get a guy who is an every down impact player right now? We should have stayed there and instead bought a raffle ticket hoping we'd win someone who would turn into a Frank Clark in a few years for free?

Get out of here with that, people... (not you htis)

I’ll never understand why people don’t get that just because you think they should’ve gotten more for a guy means they in fact could have.

Trust me, if Veach could’ve gotten more for Peters or Ford, he would have.

What else can you do about it other than bitch? If you don't like their product or the message they send then don't watch, that's literally the option.

Honestly, cause hope.

That and the people that spent hundreds of hours talking draft.

Yes, another theory that makes no sense. Like we would pass up a better offer because Veach wanted to get less for a player than he really could have?

You can be angry that Peters and Ford weren't worth as much as you had hoped, but the market spoke.

Or you can still be a fan while seriously questioning why they made the move considering what happened with Hunt and what's happening with Hill. I don't give a **** about the optics.

There's 2 types of negotiators. There's the guy who finds what he likes and buys it at the best deal he can and there's the guy that finds what he likes but only buys at his price point. Guy #1 gets what he wants and moves on to the next thing. Guy#2 can get what he wants eventually if the other side gives in or he ends up with a substitute that may or may not work. Veach is obviously #1 and the best example I can think of for #2 was Carl Peterson.

We still have a lot of "who will do this?" Who will play ILB. Who besides honey Badger will run a spags scheme that relies on really smart DB's. And it also begs the question of if we could have solved this edge rush earlier in the offseason and saved ourselves the picks... Even begs the question of if we could have just used ford as a one year stopgap until we found a long term solution.

Don't get me wrong. I'm excited as hell to have Clark. I just don't get people swearing off what a 29 and 60-ish pick could do just because they won't be frank Clark calibre. A few years from now when all our contracts expire at once and we have virtually no young pipeline to fill those gaps, we're going to be asking a lot more "who will do this" questions. I hope to God we have a super bowl before then.

Losing Hunt didn't end up hurting us in the end. We still got HFA, and we still couldn't stop the run against the Pats.

Losing Hill would hurt in the short term, but nobody is irreplaceable.

We already know who is going to play ILB for the most part. We may not like it but it doesn't make it less true.

This team was a 5-yard penalty away from the Super Bowl. The "young pipeline" is something we can fret about this weekend and all through this offseason and next offseason.

Except for Pat...

Carl was the guy who won't buy anything unless it's on sale. Veach seems like the guy who feels it's better to overpay and get exactly what you want than to be left with band-aid solutions.

One of those guys didn't win a Super Bowl in 20 years of trying, the other is already close.

Yep. The goal is to win a Super Bowl in 2019. Everything after this is largely immaterial until this time next year.

You’re just not going to have a decent defense with 25 choir boys. It’s not happening. The guy F’ed up when he was what, 21? It happens and virtually every company, including the one that you probably work for, employs guys with things in their past.

goes without saying :D

Everyone yelling about Veach and wishing we still had Ballard apparently missed that Ballard tried to trade for Clark and would have had to give him the same money.

Bitching about giving up what is essentially a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder and improving 8 spots in the 3rd and what will probably be 10-12 spots in the second round next year is dumb as ****.

Many might also argue that our inability to get deals done has led to us getting screwed in comp. We seem to always miss out on blue chip free agents and instead overpay for second tier. We got a great deal for Alex Smith but many were severely disappointed with our trade comp for Dee Ford and Marcus peters. We keep hearing about deals the Chiefs asked and asked about, like Earl Thomas and clowney etc. that we could never pull off. Are we overpaying with trades because we struggle to get big deals done otherwise?

He has to get in for physical before its pen to paper.

I'm slowly coming around on this trade, solely for the reason that Frank is a proven guy and we have an immediate Super Bowl window. I'm all about building for the long term, but it's been almost 50 years since the Chiefs were in a Super Bowl, so if we want to go all out this year, let's do it. I'm getting old.

When the average guy does stupid shit like that they just pay the consequences. When a professional athlete does stupid shit it ends up a disastrous hullabaloo with the end result usually being a lengthy suspension for PR reasons. I'd just rather not bring in a guy who's already shown propensity for doing said stupid shit, especially considering what the Chiefs have put up with this last year.

Ballard is spending all offseason with his 100 million of cap space holding his dick in his hand doing nothing.....other than being happy being a wild card round loser, cause that's what that'll get you.

Getting Clark moved the Vegas line to make the Chiefs a favorite to win the SB. So far the Chiefs have added 2 contracts of AAV over 10 mil and Jones will make 3 this year. The Chiefs are working to make sure everything doesn't "come due" all in 1 year. They still have 3 picks in the 1st 3 rounds this year and next in the draft. Just like every other team they need to hit on a majority of their picks, no change there. Giving a 1st and a 2nd round future pick for Clark to have impact now and be favored this year is worth the uncertainty of what a next years 2nd could have brought.

Yes... and I don't buy the idea that we have a window closing, anyway. This team just broke through last year, and the key pieces are all young and in their prime.

This 'load it up and then blow it up' philosophy is a loser mentality. When you have an elite QB, you can build a team for sustainable greatness.

But you have to stock up on both sides of the ball before you can move to the 'reload and replace' maintenance phase.

The talent level of the defense last year was historically bad. You have to fix that before you talk about running the team as if you are already a dynasty. Clark is a huge step toward that.

I don't hate the trade so I totally get how huge it is to have frank Clark. But I think I and many others are asking if we could have spent earlier and better or made a more reasonable trade that allows us to get much better while also keeping the picks. It feels like a panic move where we gave up way more than we needed to.

On this note, why is everybody pining for Dorsey so much? He's pretty much taken the exact same approach as we have, which is still much more preferable to standing pat with 100 million in cap except for rentals like Funchess and Houston.

Ballard didn't make the high bid, now he's gonna see Frank Clark in the playoffs any time his team makes it there. Wonder if their fans will feel like the savings was worth it in the coming years?

What was the next best offer on the table?

Or what was Seattle's asking price earlier in the offseason that we could have gotten him for?

Or it's the move Veach had in mind all along. Who were you going to get earlier in free agency that is even close to Clark's level anyway?

It's REALLY bad when you consider the medical history of Andrew Luck. I'd be pushing hard to win now while he's still capable of playing.

Who’s pining for Dorsey so much?

There's been a couple. Everybody was the wrong word.

This is all in your mind.

Direct and to the point. I like it. :clap:

Gotcha. I just think it’s funny that they gave up more for a diva WR and everybody sucked their dick for it, but we got “raped”.

By everybody, I’m not talking about CP. The media and all NFL fans.

The plan is to capitalize on this year and next year with cheap mahomes, they can pay him and make his cap hit year one very small.

Then we trade away some proven vets like Seattle is doing, for instance trade Tyreek Hill for some high picks, and build through the draft. We only get 3 years of Cheap
Mahomes so we have to capitalize.

Ballard seems obsessed with having only guys who fit their locker room culture, whatever that might be. But I think its absolutely impossible to have a full 53 man roster that is void of a few asshats. It’s just the nature of the business, really the nature of life. There is always going to be a few.

I think you’re spot on. They’ll need to extend Luck in the next couple of years as well. But, as things stand, I think they get bounced in the first two rounds again.

I will take Mathieu & Clark over Thomas & Clowney any day of the week and thrice on Sunday. We didn't lose out on anything.

Our free agency approach this year was a Dorsey approach. Pay a stopgap like Fasano or Donnie Avery and work hard to draft their replacement to get that contract off the books. For example, what if we found a #2 receiver with the #29 pick. It saves us $20m next year because we can cut Sammy Watkins. Even if that #2 is average it's a big deal. We will always have mitch Morses and Allen Baileys and Steven Nelsons and Albert Wilsons quietly sail into the night. I don't think we can small change how many of these types of players we will continually need to replace even during our three year window. So far we've been able to plug those holes with overpaid stopgaps like Okafor and Watkins. We won't have that luxury anymore. Quality depth in our young pipeline is no small deal.

50 years since this franchise made or won the Super Bowl. Now the favorites.

Just do ya some imagery practices that involve Frank Clark strip sacking Brady in the playoffs or (insert NFC QB here) in the Super Bowl, and you’ll shake off most or all concerns.

The time is now fellas.

I'm still somewhat gutted about that whole trade.

The guy has a DV past, hasn't shown great character more recently, the Seahawks clearly wanted to move him and you end up trading a 1st round pick and more plus giving a massive contract, actually slightly bigger than D. Lawrence who is widely believed to be a better player.

I must say I hate those players who adopt that stance of give me that massive contract or I won't play and Clark was one of those.

In the end though, if Veach can manage to add a decent CB, the defense looks decent.

They are only worth what someone else will give you for them. I'd bet that Veach took the highest offer he got for Peters and Ford and the others. As a casual fan, I may think Ford was worth a this year 2nd but the gents who do the job said he wasn't. And like I said earlier, Veach is a guy that finds what he wants and gets it. A pleasant change from the Peterson and Pioli years though Pioli wasn't as bad as Peterson.

Seahawks wanted to keep him, but they can’t. Had to pay Wilson the biggest contract ever and they chose to pay Jarran Reed.

Can’t blame them. An interior rusher who can get double-digit sacks is much more difficult to find than an edge rusher.

So we weren't in the hunt for Earl Thomas? There weren't tons of credible rumors that the Chiefs were talking trade trade trade at all spring meetings? You think we got the best deal possible for peters and Ford? You think we paid the right price for Watkins and Hitchens? You don't think we paid a huge price for Clark even if you like the trade? Even if you like the moves we made, is there a doubt that for the most part veach has only closed deals where we significantly overpay?

lol they all do this.

More like a broken record. :rolleyes:

Insert space balls gif here...

You can find quality players in the 2nd round to groom for replacement. You don't find very many guys who move the odds for a Super Bowl win 3% and make you the favorite to win in the draft.

Most of his points on any subject are creations of the strange little world he lives in internally.

Were there any other teams bidding for their service?

Me too for sure - I DO wish we had a nasty middle LB though.

Do you realize you are contradicting yourself here? We didn't get Earl Thomas because we got outbid but we only get players we overpay for?

Peters was worth a 2nd rounder. End of story.

Ford was worth a second rounder. End of story.

We didn't pay a huge price for Clark. It's been laid out for you repeatedly what the actual picks are equal to and I am guessing you cant even accurately lay out the trade compensation.

Its not about Clark for a player like Landon Collins or trey flowers straight up. Would you trade Collins or flowers + a top 20 pick for Clark? That's the question many ask. Maybe it's the move we had in mind all along. Considering how credible sources said we were asking anyone and everyone for trades, I doubt that. I think we overpaid out of desperation because we've seemed to come short time and time again on other deals. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather overpay and swing for the fences. But even if you like the trade, which I mostly do, how can anyone not think we really overpaid.

They paid a huge price for Clark, a premium.

As Jerry jones says, "Premium things cost a premium".

If he's a ****ing badass war daddy here and the d kicks ass, no one will give a shit. But they paid a lot.

The only way you would know we didn't is if Ballard and the Colts were doing this trade instead of the Chiefs.

:facepalm:

If any of you listen to Middlekauf, he had some info on it.

The had the money earmarked for Hill, then his shit went down and they pivoted here. They're all in for a SB in the next 2/3 years and the were proactive once they got new info. At the time of the Flowers deals and such, they were in on Earl Thomas and Hill. Well, shit changed.

It's easy to go around complaining "we could have gotten more" because it's unfalsifiable. No one here knows what the competing offers were. But you still have to explain why Veach would take less than the best offer the market would bear, or why he would pay far more than the next best offer for someone. Makes no sense at all.

Don’t love the thought of losing Hill at this expense. But if they are just hell bent on not extending him anymore or they at least want to prolong things with the tag, I’m glad they’re swinging big this season while Tyreek is still around.

That makes the most sense to me. And they absolutely should not extend Hill unless he comes out of this domestic abuse situation looking pure as the driven snow.

We took a flyer on Hill, which has worked out well so far, but it was based on him having changed. If he's still got the same issues, or maybe worsening issues now since children are involved, and it's a matter of time until he gets himself into trouble again, let him walk.

Yeah I get the frustration but which team is trying to trade a comparable DE (25 years old) with a squeaky clean past and zero injury history?

We can’t waive a magic wand, and our window is short with Mahomes on the cheap.

It's not really losing Hill at Clark's expense, it's more losing Hill because of Hill.

Like it or not. Even if he comes out of this clean, they won't sign him this offseason I doubt.

Unless you can get a cheaper deal ?

Better draft some WRs, Veach. Possibly with your top 2nd rounder.

Unless Hill thinks he can’t still get paid OBJ money on the open market. I’d extend him if he realized teams are scared to death of his standing in the NFL right now

Terez made it sound like paying Hill is still an option.

So it must be.

Until all the investigations are done, they aren't doing anything contractually.

There's always a way to get someone under the cap. If they let Hill go, it's because he's not in their future plans. Draft and sign some WRs.

You do realize there is a middle ground where you make the right deal without overpaying. If someone bids $100 and you bid $500, it doesn't make you a shrewd negotiator because you won the bid. Veachs track record has not been great from a negotiating front. I like his approach including swinging for the fences for Clark. But let's not oversell his negotiating chops. We've so far had a spotty track record closing out trades for players, most found our comp for Ford and peters (and inability to trade Houston) to be underwhelming, and we've largely overpaid by a lot for second tier free agents while not landing many blue chippers. If we have to overpay because we aren't great negotiators, fine. But lets call a spade a spade.

I think after CB, WR is almost as much of a certainty on Friday. They need another horse out there with Watkins cap hit in 2020 and Tyreek’s situation.

I’m guessing it’s wait and see mode. Play in 2019, see if you can trust him enough to tag or extend him next Spring.

We were certainly in the hunt for Earl Thomas and Veach almost got him on a dream 1-year deal. Kudos to Veach for coming so close before the Ravens aggressively leapfrogged us (and probably overpaid themselves). Not to mention Veach probably would've traded for Thomas at the deadline last year if not for the injury.

Clowney? Collins? Peterson? No reputable source ever offered evidence that we were actively engaged with those guys. So did we miss? Or did you just hyper-obsess about them because you're a member of a Chiefs message board that hyper-obsesses about everything?

You mentioned that we always seemed to miss out on big-time free agents and then claim that we overpaid for Watkins. You'd probably say the same about Matthieu. How many deals for premier players get done at levels that you think "Wow, that's cheap"? Flowers? Collins? Ford? All of those seemed inflated.

The market is the market.

As for the Ford and Peters trades, same thing. The market defines the value. Peters put us in a horrible position and had a limited number of (west coast) teams he would've accepted a trade to. In hindsight given his performance, a second was golden (and I was okay with it at the time too). As for the Ford trade, they totally turned over the defensive coaching staff and he didn't have the same value under the new regime. They flipped him for a decent pick. Did I want them to do better? Absolutely. But it's not like other teams were blind to his injury history and his one-dimensional skillset. Again, the market is the market.

So yes, I think it's all in your mind. The things you're complaining about are the reality of the game for all teams. This isn't just some Chiefs-specific curse.