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-   -   Chiefs What if Fisher sucks at RT? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=275009)

Sorter 08-04-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 9857954)
Was Joeckel in that category?

Since he was drafted ahead of Kalil position-wise, yes.

Marcellus 08-04-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter (Post 9857968)
Since he was drafted ahead of Kalil position-wise, yes.

I was on the draft defense bandwagon when it became apparent we weren't going QB.

I'm sort of curious as to why they went Fisher over Joeckel. My understanding is Reid likes athletic OL is the reason but it seemed safer to go with Joeckel.

RunKC 08-04-2013 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter (Post 9857968)
Since he was drafted ahead of Kalil position-wise, yes.

How much does that matter though? I mean the draft classes are so different. Kalil is a #1 overall talent but he was stuck in a class with 2 of the best QB prospects ever.

Marcellus 08-04-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9857981)
How much does that matter though? I mean the draft classes are so different. Kalil is a #1 overall talent but he was stuck in a class with 2 of the best QB prospects ever.

Yup, just like we would have drafted a QB had we been in the position last year.

Sorter 08-04-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 9857972)
I was on the draft defense bandwagon when it became apparent we weren't going QB.

I'm sort of curious as to why they went Fisher over Joeckel. My understanding is Reid likes athletic OL is the reason but it seemed safer to go with Joeckel.

Mmmm, how nice would it be to have Sheldon or Mingo on this team.

There's some really fun personnel groupings you could play with both of those guys athletic ability.

Marcellus 08-04-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter (Post 9857985)
Mmmm, how nice would it be to have Sheldon or Mingo on this team.

There's some really fun personnel groupings you could play with both of those guys athletic ability.

Yup you cant have enough pass rushers, especially in a pass happy league.

Sorter 08-04-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9857981)
How much does that matter though? I mean the draft classes are so different. Kalil is a #1 overall talent but he was stuck in a class with 2 of the best QB prospects ever.

So then he should have rven higher expectations of playing at Kalil's level immediately?


If Kalil is clearly 1.1 talent, and fisher is a 1.1, then their productivity should he somehwat similar or at least close enough to make valid comparisons.

O.city 08-04-2013 01:52 PM

If we were going to take a guy based on upside I would have much rather taken a guy who, if he hit said upside, would have a higher impact in the game, like a pass rusher.

But, apparently I don't know my ass from my elbow so who knows.

Marcellus 08-04-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9857995)
If we were going to take a guy based on upside I would have much rather taken a guy who, if he hit said upside, would have a higher impact in the game, like a pass rusher.

But, apparently I don't know my ass from my elbow so who knows.

Maybe you dont because we agree on this. :D

Sorter 08-04-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9857995)
If we were going to take a guy based on upside I would have much rather taken a guy who, if he hit said upside, would have a higher impact in the game, like a pass rusher.

But, apparently I don't know my ass from my elbow so who knows.

Incisors. You know them reel goodz though.

RunKC 08-04-2013 02:00 PM

Honestly, I don't think that Fisher is on Kalil's level. Kalil is going to be the best LT in the league very soon IMO. He's just a beast and always has been.

Having said that, I think that we should expect Fisher to be a premier OT for years.

At the very least, he should be a top 10 tackle for years to come, but I think expectations should be to expect him to be top 5 or very close to that.

chiefzilla1501 08-04-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9857957)
Talent wise he is Bryan Bulaga type. Draft position wise says he better be Tony Boseli or Orlando Pace.

Realistically he needs to between some where in between.

How in the world is he a Brian Bulaga type? Bulaga is a career right tackle. He has dinosaur arms and slow plodding feet. He's a pure mauler.

Physical abilities, there isn't a single knock on Fisher's resume. He's just a bit of an experiment because he doesn't have the experience.

He could very easily become a Joe Staley type. I'm not crazy about a Tackle at 1.1, but if he ends up like that and Geno Smith is anything short of franchise, then we did fine with this pick.

Saccopoo 08-04-2013 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9857995)
If we were going to take a guy based on upside I would have much rather taken a guy who, if he hit said upside, would have a higher impact in the game, like a pass rusher.

But, apparently I don't know my ass from my elbow so who knows.

I hate to tell you this, but...

http://afcwestfootball.files.wordpre...in-houston.jpg

As much as I liked Barkevious Mingo in the draft, he isn't beating out either of these guys and you don't take a guy 1.1 to be a special teams player.

We traded for Alex Smith, so the QB position is out.
We signed Sean Smith and had Brandon Flowers. CB is out.
We picked Dontari Poe at #11 in 2012, so a DT is out.

However, we had a potential holdout or trade or other such messy situation looming with Brandon Albert, who only really had one decent year of tape who also has poor fundamentals/technique for a NFL LT and a one year guy in Stephenson and Allen as potential tackles.

Fisher's combination of size, athleticism, intelligence and work ethic made him the obvious choice once the free agency signing period was over and the Chiefs filled their holes.

One could have made an argument for Sheldon Richardson as a replacement for Glenn Dorsey, but he's more of a 43 DT anyway versus a 34 DE.

And I don't think that Fisher is going to bust. Guys with his complete package don't come around very often and despite his steeper learning curve in terms of adjusting to talent, I think that he'll be a pretty solid player by the time the season rolls around full swing.

While it's a steep comparison, his measurable, size and athleticism is similar to former Jaguar standout Tony Boselli. Being regarded as "the best player in the draft" I think that should be his ceiling or expected ceiling. (Although, I'd take a 90% Boselli if Fisher was able to play twice as long as what Boselli did.)

Baby Lee 08-04-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 9857811)
It's a bit of an oversimplification. Changing from lefty to righty batting or throwing is extremely difficult. Every part of your body is doing different things.

Moving from Left to Right Tackle, you're doing the same things, you just have to retrain your muscle memory to do the right things. Fisher doesn't have to be trained much to play the Right side, he just needs a very small amount of time to practice constant repetition of the muscle movements.

If there is a closer analogy, it'd be something like a three point shooter who is nails from the left side of the arch taking shots from the right side of the arch.

You're not taking the exact shot that you have totally perfected, but there is a shit ton of overlap in the skill set required for each.

Sorter 08-04-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9858077)
I hate to tell you this, but...

http://afcwestfootball.files.wordpre...in-houston.jpg

As much as I liked Barkevious Mingo in the draft, he isn't beating out either of these guys and you don't take a guy 1.1 to be a special teams player.

We traded for Alex Smith, so the QB position is out.
We signed Sean Smith and had Brandon Flowers. CB is out.
We picked Dontari Poe at #11 in 2012, so a DT is out.

However, we had a potential holdout or trade or other such messy situation looming with Brandon Albert, who only really had one decent year of tape who also has poor fundamentals/technique for a NFL LT and a one year guy in Stephenson and Allen as potential tackles.

Fisher's combination of size, athleticism, intelligence and work ethic made him the obvious choice once the free agency signing period was over and the Chiefs filled their holes.

One could have made an argument for Sheldon Richardson as a replacement for Glenn Dorsey, but he's more of a 43 DT anyway versus a 34 DE.

And I don't think that Fisher is going to bust. Guys with his complete package don't come around very often and despite his steeper learning curve in terms of adjusting to talent, I think that he'll be a pretty solid player by the time the season rolls around full swing.

While it's a steep comparison, his measurable, size and athleticism is similar to former Jaguar standout Tony Boselli. Being regarded as "the best player in the draft" I think that should be his ceiling or expected ceiling. (Although, I'd take a 90% Boselli if Fisher was able to play twice as long as what Boselli did.)


The Browns are 3 deep with relatively young players in Sheard, Kruger, and Mingo. There is no way you couldn't have all three on the field for most passing personnel. Additionally, it provides elite depth and allows a transition when Tamba is done.


As for Sheldon, the majority of sub personnel alignkents feature a 3 technique. Given that ours are beyond underwhelming, it makes sense to upgrade that position with an elite 3. Richardsons athleticism allows for him to play othertechniques as well and would assist in creating exceptional personnel groupings for passing situations that are not 3rd down specific.


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