I think Gordon's consistency and excellence over the past four seasons have also affected people's memories, too.

It is a deal that looks great in hindsight, but Alex signed that extension after his breakout 2011. He had only one "GREAT" season in the majors, and the Royals guaranteed him $52 million.

If he had proven unable to adjust once the league adjusted to his offensive approach changes, KC could been on the hook for a lot of guaranteed cash for little return.

I understand this analysis, but I simply don't feel like this is how the market works anymore.

Do you think that Scott Boras would ever recommend that his clients sign away two of their prime seasons?

If this were the prevailing logic, I feel like Moore would have had zero problems giving Cain and Moose extensions after their breakout years.

I don't feel like the analysis on the Gordon deal is merely hindsight, at the time many writers said it was a phenomenal deal for KC.

I'd def listen for Herrera

On top of cost control Herrera is a versatile reliever. He can be a fireman or give you 2 innings.

Cain is somebody who they might be able to buy out of arbitration and keep him for a couple years after. He is going to be 32 when he hits free agency and all of his years before that will be arbitration and he didn't have the luxury of being a high pick like Hosmer or Moose to get the big signing bonus.

He is no boy scout but he is exactly what the Royals need - corner outfielder, long club control, and #2 hitter. We have a strong, loose clubhouse with enough Latin influence where I think he could fit in and probably wouldn't have much problems at all.

Basically what Duncan said. Again you have to consider that 12.5 player option he got. Those are rare in MLB and in 2011 that was the equivalent of giving a guy about 16. Those player options are extremely one-sided and need to be factored in these discussions

I also think it would do him good to be with a team where he knows he's got a long rope for playing everyday. He'd be playing everyday unless he really struggled but even then we ran Rios out all year and he was a turd sandwich. Some consistency in not losing playing time to a 4th outfielder would do Puig well.

This as well. Ned would have him out there everyday and in the same spot in the lineup as well. Edgar doesn't play too many head games with players.

I think a lot of people are vastly underestimating the potential problems with Puig.

This is a guy who was literally smuggled from Cuba by one of the most brutal and cutthroat drug cartels in Mexico. To simply get to the United States, Puig agreed to give a substantial portion of his contract to his handlers in both the U.S. and Mexico.

It's not like the Dodgers didn't try to give him the best influences they could. Adrian Gonzalez took him under his wing from the moment Puig arrived. If anything, Puig's behavior only worsened and became more and more erratic the longer he was in LA. From what I've read from Molly Knight's book, I would be much more worried about Puig's influence on our players than our influence on Puig.

After the disastrous signing of Jose Guillen, Moore has veered away from signing toxic influences in the clubhouse. I would be very surprised if he pursued Puig, because everything I've seen says his risk vastly outweighs his potential reward.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's completely possible I'm off here, but I'm just not familiar with too many players in Alex's position who agreed to those types of extensions.

EDIT: I looked up exactly one article about the extension, and this was in the first that I found (written in March of 2012).

If my memory is correct, this was lauded as a team-friendly extension by baseball writers across the league. The more I look into it, the more convinced I am that Gordon gave us a fantastic deal.

Article: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...ract-extension

What was he going to get in FA in 2013? He effectively got 2/28 from us. Was he going to get substantially more on the market? Ethier + Pence are the only comps I can see and they got 15/year. Yes he could have gotten 5 years instead of those 2.....but factor in the option and it was essentially 3/40. That's not a big discount in AAV.

Pence got 5/90. This is 18 a year and is substantially more than Gordo's AAV with the Royals. Add in that Pence had never come close to providing Gordo's defense or WAR, and it's likely that Gordo could have fetched significantly more on the open market (especially at 29).

Why is Gordon more valuable? He would've been a FA after a 3.7 war season, Pence had his after a 5.5. Pence also had 7 straight very good years, Alex would've had 3. Alex would've gotten paid but I'd bet anything not a similar deal.


Do the math here: Alex got 2/28 and let's assume 4/80 now. That's 6/108. He's getting Pence money anyway when it's all said and done

I just remembered we get WAR data from two different sources. Ah, PB. I'm a bit sauced atm, but it's clear neither of us are going to sway the other in this conversation. It's been fun.

Here's something we can agree on, bottom of the ninth, one out, Game 1 of the 2015 World Series.

Alex became a folk hero with one swing.

Yeah, stay the **** away from Puig.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...?event=event25

According to the Boston Globe article I read the Royals tried to trade for Wade Miley and Boston wanted Herrera for him. Royals offered Hochevar instead but didn't work out. Also Royals were told Jackie Bradley Jr wasn't available. Same article said Royals may opt for Dexter Fowler, Denard Span and are interested in Nick Markakis.

:thumb:

Yeah I'm changing on Puig. I was all in for bringing him in, thinking that the influence of our heavily Latin clubhouse might help.

I don't think so. You can have all the talent in the world. He's a douche, he's got all kinds of shady people around him, and he's not a match for what the Royals look for at all.

Position reversed.

I'd trade Herrera in a second for a nice haul like that.

Yeah but he wouldn't bring anything close to that

Why?

No, and no!

You're not going to get immediate value from moving Moose.

That's just a horrible idea. Did you just premise the idea that because Cuthbert is available that Moose is a chip to cash in?

I don't see any feasible way you trade Mike and improve your opening day 25 man roster.

I'm sure the fans would be super pumped for 2016 minus Gordo, Moose, and BZ!

The Mooseman, whose got those antlers mounted on top of his jeep, would probably drive straight into the K in outraged protest.

Thank you. Gordon's contract was NOT a hometown discount! He got a fair contract based on his performance. He simply put together better play more in line with what was projected from him. Thus, his contract simply became a bargain for the organization.

Anyone telling you otherwise simply did not keep up with the Royals 4 to 5 years ago.

Well, he's not as good as Giles, as cheap as Giles, or as far from FA as Giles.



In other news, Mike Cuddyer pulls a Meche and retires with 12.5 owed this year. Maybe Blowfish is right about Sweeney.

He's two years closer to FA, but Giles' return does indicate the return for Herrera should be pretty high.

You can debate how good each is pretty closely. They're both elite guys. Giles has more swing and miss because of his slider, but he is less proven than Herrera as well (who has 3.75 years of elite performance as a relievers under his belt).

Hey now. I've been a diehard since the Beltran and Sweeney days. I guess I'm the outlier in this debate.

Via Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe:

"A few teams, including the Royals and Cubs, inquired about Jackie Bradley Jr. at the Winter Meetings but were told by the Red Sox he was not available.

"The Royals have had their eye on Bradley as a possible replacement for Alex Gordon. The Red Sox and Royals also engaged in trade talks for Wade Miley before Miley was traded to the Mariners along with Jonathan Aro for reliever Carson Smith and lefty Roenis Elias. The Red Sox, according to one major league source, asked the Royals for hard-throwing reliever Kelvin Herrera, but Kansas City preferred to give up Luke Hochevar. The Red Sox opted for the Mariners deal."

Pitcher Mike Leake is willing to take significantly less to play at home in Arizona, according to sources who spoke with Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. However, D’Backs COO Tony La Russa says it’s “probably unlikely” that the team will sign him.

“It’s gone back and forth,” La Russa said. “Getting Shelby (Miller) gives us a (full) rotation. I think it’s difficult because when somebody wants to pitch for you and you really like the person, you want to try and work it out. But it’s complicated and probably unlikely.”

Here’s a look at the World Champions:

The Royals are among the many teams with interest in Scott Kazmir, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com tweets. Kazmir met with the Astros last week to explore the possibility of a return to Houston, but it remains to be seen whether that reunion will take place. The soon-to-be 32-year-old has thrown 373 1/3 innings of 3.33 ERA ball with 7.7 K/9 against 2.6 BB/9 and he’s maintained his average fastball velocity at about 91.5 mph. Still, long-term questions remain about Kazmir’s elbow, and then there’s the fact that he struggled to a 6.52 ERA over the months of September and October. More notable, perhaps, are the declining metrics he put up last year: a 3.98 FIP, 4.14 xFIP, and 4.10 SIERA.
The Royals are once again open to moving second baseman Omar Infante, Andy McCullough of the Kansas City Star tweets. Of course, it could be tough for the Royals to find a decent haul for Infante given his age and contract. Roughly two years ago, the Royals signed Infante to a four-year deal for more than $30MM plus incentives with a $10MM team option for 2018.
Royals GM Dayton Moore says that his front office is only monitoring the Alex Gordon situation for now, as Jeffrey Flanagan of MLB.com writes. When asked if Gordon is even within their financial reach, Moore said, “I don’t know. We’ll see. I don’t know the answer to that. I don’t know because I don’t know what [the asking price] will ultimately be. We’re still in the market for an outfield bat. But we also know this: If we do nothing in the outfield, we’ll still be very good defensively at the corner outfield — we’ll have speed and upside with Jarrod Dyson, Paulo Orlando and Brett Eibner and Reymond Fuentes. Jose Martinez isn’t the defender those guys are but has offense. We’ll see.”

National media saying what Duncan and me have been saying for a while
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/s...options-121215

gotta suck if you're hochevar seeing your name thrown out there like you're chopped liver.

Meh, it's a business (we could very well lose him after next year) and I'm sure he was told in advance that a trade would be possible over the offseason.

We are open to moving Infante.

I'm also open to moving my 20 year old couch in the basement

https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/sta...51827156656128. Pete Rose's ban indeed was not lifted by commissioner rob manfred.

On mobile, can't embed

Cueto to Giants.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Johnny Cueto has an agreement with the Giants, pending a physical.</p>&mdash; Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/676512750202445824">December 14, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thanks for the games Cueto.

**** the Giants

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Johnny Cueto has six-year, $130 million agreement with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SFGiants?src=hash">#SFGiants</a>, source confirms. Deal has opt-out after 2017. <a href="https://twitter.com/FOXSports">@FOXSports</a></p>&mdash; Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) <a href="https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/676516380464783365">December 14, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thanks for everything, Johnny!

(On another note, Giants fans are speculating that this might take them out of the running for Gordo).

I bet 2nd half shit fest cost him at least 30 million.

He should thank a higher power that the Royals season didn't end in Game 4 of the ALCS.

He may have lost a year of his contract had that been the case.

Maybe, but that deal's about on par with what Zimmerman got in terms of AAV and that's about the same class Cueto is in.

Greinke and Price are in another level. Apart from an insane 2014 season, Cueto's always been in the 'very good' tier. The guys getting a $30 million AAV are likely HOFers.

He almost certainly cost himself a little, but the market doesn't support 7 yr deals for many pitchers and a smallish righty almost certainly wasn't getting one. So if you figure his ceiling was at 6 years, maybe a stellar 2nd half nets him a $24 milion AAV but even that's pushing it.

This deal is much better than I thought he'd get. It seems to suggest that his implosion in KC didn't hurt his market value nearly as much as I thought it would.

Too bad the Royals don't get an extra draft pick for this signing.

Well, he is going back to the National League where he won't have to face a DH.

That's a good situation for him. Back to the NL, pitcher's park, good money. I'm guessing he bounces back. Thanks for the playoffs Johnny. Those final two games were great...

Game 5 of the ALDS and Game 2 of the WS likely rebuilt some of his value.

We got the circle trophy with all the flags. It's cool.

I wonder if our philosophy changes in a few years when we get the new TV deal...

Yeah, it'll help his numbers.

But for the Giants, nobody they sign is going to have to face the DH (obviously) so that's not a 'boost' for him. He's not going to get any better a boost by getting to face the pitcher than anyone would have so you don't give him a premium for that.

When you look at what the Giants and D-Backs offered him, it's pretty clear that the market viewed his time with KC as more of a blip on his radar. That or they saw that performance in the clincher as more indicative of what they could get from him than his struggles in September.

It's not a chance I'd have wanted to take, to be honest.

Yeah. I think Game 5 especially.

When he got down early and just locked it in for the next 7 innings, that almost certainly got a lot of teams attention. I think that pretty much made him back most of what he lost.

I remember when Hootie kept saying Cueto was identical to Greinke. Fun times.

Agree with that. It would be nice to get a pick for him (or from the competitive balance draft), but, alas, that's not the way it works.

****!

I was hoping the Dodgers would get him.

I was too. So he'd **** you guys over with shitty pitching.

I feel the same way about Price in the postseason.

You ready to call the Marlins back w/ that Seager, Urias and Bellinger offer yet? ;)

You mean Seager, Pederson and Urias....plus more? Yeah....no thanks.

Hehe.

Well they can ask for whatever they want. I didn't ask if you'd give up that particular bit of insanity - I asked about Seager, Urias and Bellinger.

They'd have to take that offer.

Dillon Gee signed to a minor league deal.

Good SP depth for AAA and a guy that could be good for some spot starts

Gee is the kind of guy that can get you to October.

He won't get you through October, but over 162 games he can be an outstanding asset for a team that needs to eat up 80-100 innings due to attrition and keep your head above water for all of them.

That's a Dayton Moore move if I've ever seen one.

Dillon Gee is a guy Duncan pimped last winter. Maybe he heard something on the inside about this. Cheater!

What haopened to Gee last season?

Just connecting dots. He would have filled the Chris Young role, perhaps, if acquired earlier. I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Cheap depth. Joe Blanton-esque.

Exactly what I was thinking. Somehow, Dayton always gets the guys that make a lot of sense. Hope there are a few more like that.

I remember when my GM did stuff.

Back before Theo took his balls.

Though I've also seen that the Royals may be in on Gallardo - that seems odd. Dayton's usually pretty savvy with his pitching targets and Yovani Gallardo would not qualify as a savvy signing at all, IMO.

Personal theory re: Mozeliak

Taveras' death put him on the equivalent of MLB GM tilt.

He was flawless before that point. Has looked shaky ever since.

@JeffPassan: Royals are trying to replicate veteran FA magic (Chris Young, Ryan Madson) with Dillon Gee and John Lannan, who signed minor league deals.

He's got a ring for the same team that drafted him to be a SP and he never panned out.

Yes, fewer tragedies bigger have ever been known.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Dillon Gee can crack the Royals&#39; rotation and put up a season like 2013 (32 GS, 199 IP), performance bonuses would bump salary to ~$5.3M.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/676584273558659072">December 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Haven't heard John Lannons name in forever

Organization that had amazing 15 year run, you got to think soon or later its going to go down somewhat. Just law of averages you would think.

ehh, I don't hate the Giants. Any bad taste leftover from 2014 quickly washed away after this season.
It's not a team full of douches or anything. Their manager is legit, and the Giants front office were the first people to contact Dayton and the organization right after they won the WS this year. They even sent over a bunch of Minsky's once the team arrived back in KC.

What is Medlen's role expected to be this year?

I'll happily still take his deal and not think twice about 30 mil that may have possibly been left on the table.

Ideally, fully rehabbed for a spot in the rotation.

That was the expectation and the thinking behind not rushing him back.

That Lannan dudes K/B is horrible.