Our season dies this weekend.

The corpse is stinking and needs to be buried anyways.

The one plus I can take from this week is I would have bet anything Holland would have been back by now.

And now they’re going to give us a little hope before they cuck us.

the majority of this fiasco is on Matheny. Matheny’s continued employment is solely on Dewitt.

Thank God for the Reds.

And Bucs, Marlins, Padres...

Well, as a Pirates fan, I am not entirely thankful for the Bucs. :D

As a Brew Crew fan, I'm just hoping for a work stoppage starting now and lasting until October first so that the season ends today

I think Matheny is a good manager..its not like the cardinals are loaded with talent

ROFL

Yes the non stop mental errors game after game would never reflect poorly on coaching. The lack of accountability would also never reflect poorly on leadership.

Matheny is toast, DeWitt can’t ignore it much longer. LaRussa could do much better with less. He won the2006 W.S without a “ loaded” team. Matheny has a starting rotation that is one of the best in baseball.

The outfield is a pile of shit other than Ozuna

Bader is ok

I think he’s toast at the end of the year.

This is a troll job, right?

why would you think that? Everything coming from the Cardinals gives every indication that they think Matheny is a not only a great manager but one of the best in the whole league. They are lucky to have him.

Listened to an interview with Buster Onley. He said Dewitt is The Godfather of baseball. More powerful than Manafred, the baseball commissioner. He is well respected by everyone. If so, why the unconditional Matheny love?

He thinks the rash of pitcher injuries due to running the bases is the main reason for the recent push for the DH. But, he also thinks other owners who have wanted the DH for a long time are pushing now that Dewitt has an obvious DH. They don’t think Dewitt will vote for it but he may not lobby against it. That may be the difference in the few votes that sway the vote to DH for all of MLB.

I haven’t heard this before, that’s very interesting to me and comes as a bit of a surprise.

There's something about Ben Zobrist that makes me want to hit him in the face with a rake.

I feel like I'm watching this game on WGN.

Reliever Greg Holland will travel to Philadelphia for the Cardinals' series with the Phillies, manager Mike Matheny said Sunday. The former All-Star has been on the disabled list since May 26 with right hip impingement.

"He said he felt like he's figuring it out," Matheny said.

Holland made two rehab appearances for AA Memphis this weekend. He gave up a home run Friday but pitched a scoreless inning Sunday.

The Cardinals signed Holland to a one-year, $14 million contract after spring training. He struggled in the big leagues before going on the disabled list, posting a 9.45 ERA over 18 games pitched.

During his rehab stint, Holland posted a 7.20 ERA in five appearances between AAA Memphis and AA Springfield. He walked five and allowed two home runs.

Hey Meathead, do these stats from his rehab look like he has it figured out?:facepalm:

Do you think Matheny really has any final say over who is on the 25 man roster or not?

Well, when Matheny is consistently advocating for Holland's worthless ass all of ST and they sign him on the first day of the season, it's hard to argue that he doesn't.

I'd rather see Big Cheeked Fetters out there than Holland

its his standard comment now. He said the same thing with Martinez, Reyes, Fowler and now Holland. Doesn’t matter what the stats, his or everyone’s eyes can see. The player says he’s good to go, that’s enough for Matheny.

Buster’s info is usually pretty solid.

Wong is an absolutely atrocious hitter.

Carpenter just flighted a gap wedge over the wall.

Tony Fossas must be too long retired so they brought back Holland.

Molina and company need to have their “Band of Brothers” moment and state clearly “I will not follow that man into combat.”

The Pirates and Cardinals bullpens are not good.

Two hits, two homers, thirteen strikeouts. Definitely a "fire the hitting coach" kind of performance.

if your a member of the Athletic or not read your free articles you should read the Rosenthal article. He’s basically saying it’s put up this season or heads should roll. Not just Matheny.

That's great and all, but I don't give a shit about "should." We all know that heads should roll. The only question that matters is if heads will roll.

its all on Dewitt at this point.

Second and 3rd with 1 out in the 8th and 9th and they put the ball in play exactly zero times, striking out on outside breaking balls four straight times, trying to pull each pitch. Fortunately, Munoz swung at a pitch that was so bad he was able to reach because it was a 56 footer in the other batter's box.

18 strikeouts in this game. So far and they just tied the game.

This would be a lol game we have no business winning. It’s a shame that MM is trusting Bowman to deliver.

Classic Matheny stupidity. Keeps Bowman in when he's throwing nothing but chest high shit, and puts the winning run on base which ends up scoring on a goddamned double.

Whelp after the Pham homerun and I saw Bowman was coming in to save it I watched Westworld instead. Lol we gots the dumbest manager in the history of baseball.

it was clear that Bowman was off his game. Matheny just sits on his hands and watches the game be lost. :shake:

This team is an abomination to the proud teams that wore the birds on bat for over 100 years.

Just watched the replay, wtf was Ozuna doing? And why the **** did MM put the winning run on base? The players are just as dumb as the jerkoff manager.

Mismanagement of games on Saturday and Sunday cost the team the game tonight.

Hicks should not have been brought into the game on Saturday once they were trailing, and Norris should not have been brought into a game they were leading by five runs on Sunday. Had Matheny not made those moves, he could have used Norris for a second inning tonight or a combination of Hicks/Norris.

Then, compound that by putting the winning run on base when doubles are more likely than homers and leaving in an obviously ineffective Bowman and you have what you have.

I'm not going to blast Ozuna for not getting to a ball with a 4% catch probability, but he probably shouldn't have dived for it.

I've been watching Cardinals baseball for 50 years. Other teams lacked talent and had worse records than where this teams W/L record will probably end up.

But, I absolutely hate the way this team plays the game. The mistakes I wouldn't tolerate from the little leaguers that I coached. That happen over and over again. The same ones. Nothing seems to be learned. The bullpen misuse has been an issue since day 1 from Meathead. Nothing has changed.

There is no business in America that would tolerate this ineptitude. Their customers would leave. I hope that the Matheny apologists, the team can do no wrong crowd revolt enough to get Dewitt attention. We are way past the point where any credible manager wouldn't make this team a better team. We should be able to attract a top talent but at this point, anyone would be better.

I just look at each loss as another coffin nail.

Unfortunately its a big goddamn coffin. :banghead:

This was it, gentlemen. This was the game that starts the entire house of cards on its way down.

There is no way on this Earth or any other that DeWitt won't remember this game. Matheny won't be fired mid-season or anything, but this will be a game that stands out in a big way this offseason. It will be right after the Cubs failures at home and right before this run of very good teams that are pretty much going to push our shit in over the next month. We'll go into the ASB below .500 and the tailspin will be on.

And when the post-mortem is done, this game will absolutely stand out as 'Peak Matheny'.

He's gone. This is the kind of game that gets people fired and just as Matt Cassel finally sunk Scott Pioli, so too shall Matt Bowman finally rid us of Mike Matheny. Last night was a good thing, gents. If this team strikes out 19 times and wins a game with Matt Bowman closing it, somehow that would have been vindication for that window licking reerun.

The right thinking world will know that it was simply proof that NOBODY loses every game, no matter how hard they try. Sometimes the other team just won't let you lose. But tonight, Matheny pushed all the right buttons and his hand-picked hitting coach made sure this squad took maybe 2 halfway decent ABs all night. They managed to pull defeat from the jaws of victory here and look goddamn awful in the process.

It was perfect. He's done; it's just a matter of time.

Ozuna didn't have a chance. Off the bat it looked like a basic hard hit liner in his general vicinity so he had to go after it with the tying run in scoring position. But because Bowman didn't get a ball below the belt all night, predictably the ball was scorched and had some nasty sink to it. There was no way to see that sink off the bat and he had to be aggressive in that situation so he ended up pot-committed. I actually thought he made a hell of an effort to make it as close as it was. The sink killed him and he just couldn't have known that was going to happen.

Nope - Ozuna can't wear anything there. He did the only thing you'd expect a generally good LFer to do there. A shitty one just lays back, concedes the tying run and watches Bowman blow it with the next batter. A superlative one probably gets it. Ozuna is neither of those - he's simply a pretty good defensive player that ended up in no man's land.

This is Matheny's shit sandwich and nobody else's.

If this turns out to be true drinks are on me

Logically this makes sense, but any organization willing to activate Greg Holland even after the dumpster fire his minor league "rehab" proved to be is one that I don't trust will pull the plug on Saint Mikey.

Or you could say they're giving him the rope needed to hang himself.

Man, I hope your right but he should have been gone before now so I'm not getting my hopes up.


If it happens and Mo stays, I think its a signal that Mo has been advocating to fire Matheny to Dewitt. Or its the signal that Dewitt wants to send.

The bullpen has actually been pretty good the last week. Gomber, Tui, Mayers have all gave us good bullpen innings. Something we haven't saw from anyone not named Hicks or Norris.

Yes, we at least know who we should not count on this season. I was for giving Holland a shot, I thought we overpaid, but on a one year deal it doesn't matter as much. However, good lord he has proven to be a disaster. The fact that they are even considering giving him another shot after getting lit up in the minors is sobering at best.

The problem isnt the talent. Every organization in baseball has 2 or 3 guys that can pitch 60 quality bullpen innings being underutilized. The Angels and Padres keep finding solid middle relief arms on waivers. The Nats have the best reliever in the game right now in Justin Miller and he came off the scrap heap. LaRussa did it every year.

The key is finding the effective guys by giving them a chance. Mayers shoulda ne getting higher leverage opportunities. Guilmet shouldve been given more than a sniff, as should poncedeleon. Keep churning and stick with guys that perform.

The answer is NOT sending Cecil, Holland and Bowman out there to do the same bad job they did last time. You cant have pets in a bullpen; the volatility is too high. Matheny doesn't understand that.

This isnt a W.S. team with Connie Mack in charge but it's better than this. It's a playoff team at least as talented as Milwaukee. But Matheny is an idiot.

now you can add Bowman to the list. Out with not only blisters but with blood flow issues to the fingers. Been going on for awhile. He tells Matheny he’s ready to go. Good enough for Meathead.

On pace for a 15 strikeout game. Mabry is the awesome.

This park is a joke

Um Munoz is like really really bad at stealing bases. I wonder if MM has caught on yet.

wellll l guess that’s better than the 19 strikeouts last night. :)

Mstheny tells them to keep pushing it on the bases despite how poor of a base running team they are. They are just doing what their manager is telling them to do.

Is Holland really coming into this game now that the Cards took the lead? ****ing kill me.

Un****ing believable.

ROFL

Mows em down

Ya he looked good in the 7th but why play with fire? Go to Hicks.

that was just good hitting. Hicks balls had ton of movement on them before the double. I’m watching the Philly broadcast and Turk was commenting on the movement on a fastball.

Yep and now we have a 1 run lead again. Maybe Gyorko could get the save. I have no trust in anyone in this bullpen.

Was at the game in Philly last night. Luke seemed like he was in for a long night from the get go but was fortunate that the mistakes that he did make only typically cost a run.

Fowler looked like absolute garbage. Something is up with him.

He's trying to tank his way out of town.

I only saw one 'event' with him before I left and it was his first AB. He took an 0-1 fastball right down the chute and on 0-2 got an even easier pitch to hit and very clear had no intention of even attempting to swing at it.

I've never seen a more ambivalent AB in my life. Jim Edmonds would do his little 'take dance' anytime he was at 3-0 and it was so nonchalant that he might as well have set the bat down while the pitch was being delivered. He STILL looked more engaged than Dexter Fowler looked in that at bat.

What Fowler doesn't seem to realize is that the franchise would almost certainly love to be rid of his loafing ass but there's literally not a single team in baseball that wants him. Why would they? A guy like Carlos Gomez who is an admittedly flawed player put up consecutive seasons of an .800+ OPS season and had to settle for a 1 yr/$4 million deal this past offseason.

Why? Because GMs aren't stupid anymore. The recognize that fading veterans with defensive limitations simply aren't worth anything and the idea of the $8 million WAR is as antiquated as fielding percentage as a catch-all defensive metric.

A guy like Dexter Fowler would've had a market value of probably 2/$24 million last offseason, before he shit the bed this year. If he were to continue this trend and be a FA this coming offseason, he'd be looking at something similar to what Carlos Gomez got.

He's literally overpaid by $40+ million dollars. He can pout all he !@#$ing wants but nobody is going to trade for him. I guess he's probably just trying to get himself cut at this point.

**** that guy.

ive said it before and I’ll say it again, use this years free one time $50 million extra revenue from MLB and cut your losses and move on. Pay some team the $50 million and give us an “A” prospect or a bag of balls. Either way, we have plenty of OF in the pipeline. He won’t be missed.

Just realized - is Fowler the most STL has paid for a FA that wasn’t a resigning of their own followed closely by Leake?

The dead money we have invested in Cecil, Fowler, Leake, and now a half a season of Holland would buy you a couple of years of a Machado level contract.

yes. Heard it on two podcasts this afternoon.

l font totally blame Mo for the bad reliever deals. It’s a good assumption that FA and their agents are well aware of Matheny burning out relievers. They have to overpay to get relievers to come here. If you
Were a reliever would you want your career in Meatheads hands?

Hey DJ and Hamas, what would have have the Cardinals traded to the Royals to get Herrera? What in our system is comparable to or a little better than what Washington gave up?

Edmundo Sosa and a few pieces of A ball flotsam.

you make that deal?

I trade nothing. Any prospect traded for a rental this year is a waste, unless you use them to dump Fowler or Cecil. This team is just above average and the manager makes them mediocre. It's an 87 win team with a good skipper, 80 with Matheny.

yeah even Manny can’t save this team.

Hopefully this painful and sad season will end the Matheny era.