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-   -   Chiefs Chiefs Sign Former Bucs LT Donovan Smith (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=348614)

DJ's left nut 05-04-2023 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16932885)
If we can play Wiley at RT and give him all this help......why can't Morris start this year?

I'm not sure why we can't start the third round pick this year?

Because right this very second we simply have no idea. Could he? Yeah - and maybe he will earn the job. And maybe Smith has significant incentives based on snap share and winning an AFCCG like JJSS did.

If Morris wins the job, the incentives likely don't trigger.

Can Taylor make a seamless transition? Yeah - and maybe he will. In which case the incentives likely don't trigger.

This sets absolutely nothing in stone. Nor does it have much in the way of opportunity cost. And even in the event that it eventually does, it'll be because the coaching staff felt we were a better team with Smith in the starting lineup in some capacity.

And? That's not opportunity cost at that point - it's the cost of doing business.

htismaqe 05-04-2023 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16932881)
Unfortunately he may be right. And I think Niang and Wanogho are why we signed Smith.

I don’t think Veach trusts either of them and wants Morris to take over next year

That’s worst case scenario. They signed Smith for insurance. It’s all good.

O.city 05-04-2023 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16932892)
That’s worst case scenario. They signed Smith for insurance. It’s all good.

Speak it into existence my friend.

O.city 05-04-2023 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16932891)
Because right this very second we simply have no idea. Could he? Yeah - and maybe he will earn the job. And maybe Smith has significant incentives based on snap share and winning an AFCCG like JJSS did.

If Morris wins the job, the incentives likely don't trigger.

Can Taylor make a seamless transition? Yeah - and maybe he will. In which case the incentives likely don't trigger.

This sets absolutely nothing in stone. Nor does it have much in the way of opportunity cost. And even in the event that it eventually does, it'll be because the coaching staff felt we were a better team with Smith in the starting lineup in some capacity.

And? That's not opportunity cost at that point - it's the cost of doing business.

Based on what we've heard, they're going into it with the "let him learn a year" philosophy. Maybe I've missed more on it, but that's what I've read to this point.

I just don't like that.

htismaqe 05-04-2023 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16932886)
I think many of us said that the Chiefs put themselves in a bit of a bind by not attacking the OT position in the draft last season in any meaningful way. We knew they were going to be looking at some tough choices on the OL because they'd be largely flying blind with a bunch of rookies or new players at OT this season.

That won't necessarily be the case next season. Both Taylor and Morris will have more experience in the system. That's two more guys with meaningful experience here than we had this year.

I mean we were looking at Niang and Prince - that's it. Both Taylor and Morris could very easily be part of a long-term plan at the position and Smith is simply insurance and/or part of a short term plan that really hadn't been fully resolved.

I just don't get the angst here at all. Especially when we STILL don't know the terms of the deal.

Exactly. When it comes out that his base salary is $1.5M with $7.5M in incentives, it’s going to be a lot more clear.

DJ's left nut 05-04-2023 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16932881)
Unfortunately he may be right. And I think Niang and Wanogho are why we signed Smith.

I don’t think Veach trusts either of them and wants Morris to take over next year

Niang has simply never approached the game like a job. He's routinely been out of shape, he hasn't been able to develop and despite little more than a speed bump in Wylie in front of him, he's never been able to earn the trust of the coaching staff.

Yes, this says more about Niang (it says very little for Morris, who was a 3rd round pick many projected in the 4th and shouldn't have reasonably been expected to step in on Day 1) than it does about Taylor or even Smith.

And if Smith starts - fine. Frankly, he probably should. Again, he has a long history of simply being a quality NFL OT, especially as a pass blocker. Why wouldn't we want to see him revert to form and take a starting spot? Why would that say anything bad about Morris or even Taylor?

This feels like your standard knee jerk response to "$9 million" that is then being doubled down on. And again, it completely ignores the new normal w/r/t NFL math. $9 million for a starting LT is asswipe money if he's even average. And yes, for the vast majority of his career he's been average to above average at LT.

tredadda 05-04-2023 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16932814)
This is more than likely the case.

You've got Taylor, whom you liked enough to invest heavily in. Veach AND Reid have indicated that they think he can play LT. But what's the plan if he can't?

Winnebago? Niang, who hasn't shown he can stay healthy? Pretty sketchy.

Smith's deal is worth UP TO $9m, which tells me it's largely incentive based.

He's an experienced LT (although not at a high level of play recently) on a cheap deal. In case of emergency, break glass.

If he looks better than Taylor in camp, then maybe you just play him, and play Taylor at RT and your OT room is stacked. If Taylor outplays him, then you play the best guy at RT and probably keep Smith as your back-up. I'd assume if he can't beat out Taylor, then he's probably more like the '22 version of Smith than the '21 and prior guy. So you go with your young guy competition at RT.

There's no downside here.

Veteran insurance.

That's exactly why bringing in Smith was a good move. It's low risk, high reward. It appears to be a incentive laden one year deal.

DJ's left nut 05-04-2023 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16932894)
Based on what we've heard, they're going into it with the "let him learn a year" philosophy. Maybe I've missed more on it, but that's what I've read to this point.

I just don't like that.

That's the case with the overwhelming majority of 3rd/4th round Tackles. Those guys don't just step into the starting lineup with any regularity.

And even if he could, if Taylor struggles to make the transition to LT or if Morris gets hurt, then what? Even in the present state, Taylor could struggle, Smith could be terrible again and Morris could still end up starting.

Y'all are getting WAY ahead of yourselves.

O.city 05-04-2023 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16932900)
That's the case with the overwhelming majority of 3rd/4th round Tackles. Those guys don't just step into the starting lineup with any regularity.

And even if he could, if Taylor struggles to make the transition to LT or if Morris gets hurt, then what? Even in the present state, Taylor could struggle, Smith could be terrible again and Morris could still end up starting.

Y'all are getting WAY ahead of yourselves.

If they go with "best 5" it should work itself out, but there's a pathway to where we burned alot of capital and draft picks and the T spots just aren't much improved.

chiefzilla1501 05-04-2023 08:07 AM

A one year contract to a veteran is exactly the type of contract you give to a guy you hope will lose his job. Think Austin Blythe. We will keep giving these 1 year type deals until we find our own guy in house. And like karlaftis with Dunlap, we’re not gonna just feed him to the sharks until he’s ready.

O.city 05-04-2023 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16932898)
Niang has simply never approached the game like a job. He's routinely been out of shape, he hasn't been able to develop and despite little more than a speed bump in Wylie in front of him, he's never been able to earn the trust of the coaching staff.

Yes, this says more about Niang (it says very little for Morris, who was a 3rd round pick many projected in the 4th and shouldn't have reasonably been expected to step in on Day 1) than it does about Taylor or even Smith.

And if Smith starts - fine. Frankly, he probably should. Again, he has a long history of simply being a quality NFL OT, especially as a pass blocker. Why wouldn't we want to see him revert to form and take a starting spot? Why would that say anything bad about Morris or even Taylor?

This feels like your standard knee jerk response to "$9 million" that is then being doubled down on. And again, it completely ignores the new normal w/r/t NFL math. $9 million for a starting LT is asswipe money if he's even average. And yes, for the vast majority of his career he's been average to above average at LT.

That's kind of handwaving the Niang situation. He was the starter, blew out his patella and didn't get the job back. Knowing how Andy treats the OL, he wasn't ever going to take over the RT spot this year unless Wylie just imploded or got injured.

The moves they've made this year seems to speak that they don't trust Niang, true.

wazu 05-04-2023 08:09 AM

Feels like one thing we're learning is that finding a franchise Left Tackle when you have a Superbowl contending team is almost as tough as finding a franchise QB.

O.city 05-04-2023 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 16932909)
Feels like one thing we're learning is that finding a franchise Left Tackle when you have a Superbowl contending team is almost as tough as finding a franchise QB.

Most of the plug and play LT's are either highly paid FA's or go super early in the draft.

I am kinda hoping they intend Morris to play LT and sit him a year behind Smith. Having 3 years of a 3rd rounder at LT would be cheap and very beneficial.

Wisconsin_Chief 05-04-2023 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 16932876)
Question:

Let's say you're Reid. You saw a lot during OTAs and have seen enough training camp practice to make some evaluations. You believe Taylor is the best LT on the team by a somewhat marginal gap. Meanwhile, you believe Taylor is also the best RT on the team by a large significant gap. Smith is the next best LT, but he's playing at replacement level. Niang/Winnebago are slightly better than replacement on the right side.

So where would you start Taylor in this scenario?

Reid's philosophy has always been to get the best 5 guys on the field, so in that scenario it's quite simple; Smith is your LT and Taylor is your RT. I really don't see how this is going to play out any other way.

It's pretty clear that the Chiefs insisting Taylor was going to be their LT was nothing more than a smoke screen, just like all the WR videos coming out of top flight guys (except for Rice) practicing with Mahomes.

Quite frankly, it would have been downright irresponsible for the Chiefs to depend on Taylor learning a new position at LT and expecting Niang, Prince and Morris to hopefully figure things out on the right side. We are protecting the best QB ever to play the game here, and I'm personally tired of seeing him hop around on one leg, and I'm sure they are too. They need to have their asses covered. If it turns out Taylor at LT and Niang at RT looks like the best combo, then great, but you sure as hell couldn't go into the year counting on that. This way your floor is relatively high, while keeping the ceiling high as well.

RunKC 05-04-2023 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16932898)
Niang has simply never approached the game like a job. He's routinely been out of shape, he hasn't been able to develop and despite little more than a speed bump in Wylie in front of him, he's never been able to earn the trust of the coaching staff.

Yes, this says more about Niang (it says very little for Morris, who was a 3rd round pick many projected in the 4th and shouldn't have reasonably been expected to step in on Day 1) than it does about Taylor or even Smith.

And if Smith starts - fine. Frankly, he probably should. Again, he has a long history of simply being a quality NFL OT, especially as a pass blocker. Why wouldn't we want to see him revert to form and take a starting spot? Why would that say anything bad about Morris or even Taylor?

This feels like your standard knee jerk response to "$9 million" that is then being doubled down on. And again, it completely ignores the new normal w/r/t NFL math. $9 million for a starting LT is asswipe money if he's even average. And yes, for the vast majority of his career he's been average to above average at LT.

Yup. And I know folks were all against this but the question begs..are we sure the Chiefs weren’t calling the Cowboys to move up for Anton Harrison? Bc boy that sure makes a ton of sense at this point.

In regards to Niang, I liked his talent but he has really straddled along the Breeland Speaks path. He took Covid year off (fine), but he came back looking out of shape. He seemed lazy. Then he gets hurt with these major injuries over and over again. I just think Veach gave up faith in him. I think he views Niang as nothing more than a swing tackle option at this point. The fact that the Chiefs signed Taylor to big money, traded up in rd 3 to draft a tackle and now bringing one in? To me that says he’s lost faith in the kid.

I’m fine with a Smith/Taylor duo. You’re pretty much paying 1/3 the price if not less for Orlando Brown Jr production (at worst) while significantly upgrading RT from a guy who gave up 2.5% pressure last year compared to Wylie’s 6.5%+.

And I really do think Morris was our best value pick. 5 star recruit with lots of experience and an ideal frame (6’5”, 307, 10+ hands, 35 arms) with excellent movement skills that were among the best at the combine, especially the 10 yard split which means a great deal for pulling.

I’m very confident that Andy Heck can work his technique out in time. He got Wylie, a traditional G with solid size and excellent athleticism, to be a functional RT. I’m inclined to think that if he can do that for Wylie, he can for Morris.

I think that Morris is gonna pay dividends at some point. Probably at RT. But I think we hit on him.


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