Hmmm. Can’t say that I have heard of any of those fellows. Anyone know anything about this group of players?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gutierrez, 23, is Washington’s #10 prospect, Perkins, 21, is #11, according to MLB .com <a href="https://t.co/fI1wxb020T">https://t.co/fI1wxb020T</a></p>&mdash; Josh Vernier (@JoshVernier610) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshVernier610/status/1008864374658883585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Dayton Moore can **** right off. Stats aren't everything, but every single one of these players is entirely unimpressive.

So.. he got what you were going to get for a reliever with one year of control left.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BA rated Gutierrez as having the best infield arm and Perkins as the best defensive OF in the Nate system.</p>&mdash; Craig Brown (@CraigBrown_BP) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigBrown_BP/status/1008864457106317313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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If I'm reading this right Morel is 17 years old. Young pitcher. The other two guys seem like decent prospects. They aren't top guys like Robles or Soto, but I just don't think you're going to get that unless you trade someone with more control.

Well, that sounds reasonably unimpressive. Like tk13 says, it’s hard to get much of a return for a rent a player, even for an elite closer like Herrera.

Should have held out for Machado straight up

Blake Perkins
The Nationals made the most of their two second-round picks in the 2015 Draft by selecting the best defensive outfielders still on the board in Andrew Stevenson and Arizona high school product Perkins. Though Perkins was Washington's second choice, he received the highest bonus in its Draft crop at $800,000 for his five-tool potential. Those tools were on full display during his first full season in the Class A South Atlantic League, as he hit for both average and power, paced the circuit in runs scored (105) and walks (72) and showed impact potential in center field as well as on the basepaths.

The Nationals helped Perkins become a switch-hitter upon entering the pro ranks, and the club is thrilled with his early returns from both sides of the plate. He made huge strides as a lefty in 2017, collecting 25 of his 39 extra-base hits including all eight of his home runs from that side, albeit with some swing-and-miss tendencies. He's more contact-oriented with modest gap power from his natural right side, while his patient approach and discerning eye stands out on both sides of the plate.

Perkins' plus speed translated to 31 steals in his first full season, and he should continue to swipe bags with ease thanks to his strong on-base skills. He gets excellent jumps and has range for days in all directions in center field, with average arm strength that allows him to play all three outfield positions if needed. Perkins has the ceiling of a top-of-the-order center fielder, with a fourth-outfielder floor thanks to his across-the-board tools.

Should have held out for Antuna straight up

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> officials privately had wondered why a team wouldn’t step out for Herrera and pay a slightly higher price to secure him well before the non-waiver deadline. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nationals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Nationals</a> did just that, acquiring Herrera for 3 1/2 months as opposed to two. Typical Mike Rizzo aggression.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1008865447608049664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Kelvin Gutierrez
Gutierrez established himself as a prospect during an All-Star campaign in the Class A Short Season New York-Penn League in 2015, when he recorded the circuit's fifth-highest average (.305) and tied for the league lead in doubles (21). He made a smooth transition to full-season ball in the Class A South Atlantic League the following year, earning midseason All-Star honors in the process, and was in the midst of a similarly strong offensive campaign in 2017 before a June ankle injury wiped out much of his second half. Gutierrez did manage to make up for some of that lost time in the Arizona Fall League, and the Nationals added him to their 40-man roster in November.

The Nationals view Gutierrez as one of the better pure hitters in their system. He has a relatively simple inside-out stroke from the right side of the plate that produces hard contact across the whole field and fuels his projection as an above-average hitter. And while he hasn't yet figured out how to apply his raw power during games, club officials do expect him to clear more fences once he becomes more comfortable firing his barrel and turning on the ball.

Primarily a shortstop early in his career before shifting to third base in 2014, Gutierrez moves well for his size at the hot corner, showing athletic actions and plenty of range, with near plus-plus arm strength that is a clean fit at the position. Meanwhile, after committing 25 errors in 2016, Gutierrez was focused and consistent in '17, prompting many evaluators to peg him as a future above-average defender.

Kennedy gives up a homer to the first batter.

I'm shocked!

The bullpen will never be able to finish a game now. Oh well. Probably going to lose 120 games now instead of 110.

Well, I viewed Herrera as easily our best trade chip. Unless we trade Merrifield or Salvy, which I don't think Moore has the balls to do, I don't expect much ammunition to be added by trade with Moose being our only real trade chip now.

To me this feels like the Greinke trade. The Royals got assets that aren’t your prototypically attractive prospects, but instead of getting one prospect back, the Royals got several that could complement a full team rebuild.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Cain, Escobar, and Jeffries (spelling?) being more highly regarded than these guys.

The problem is, almost nothing in recent memory would suggest that the "scouts" deserve to be trusted. Oh well, I'm just a guy behind a computer screen. I hope they prove me wrong.

*** Official 2018 Royals Repository ***
 

I’m not sure they got an everyday player. Rutherford is a good defender and has plus speed, plus is a switch hitter.

Gutierrez is the biggest upside piece, 3Bwith good contact skills and some raw power.

I like trading with the Nats because they have a great, deep system and develop players well...

But would trade Kieboom for all 3 of those guys. Guessing that either wasn’t on the table or the Royals didn’t want all eggs in one basket.

Also: if that’s the return Herrera fetches, Moustakas will be so disappointing I don’t know it’s even worth making a deal.

It definitely feels like that.

Escobar was two years removed from being a top 50 prospect whose shine was off. Cain was seen as an old org/4th OF type. Jeffress was a reliever with a big arm.

Perkins screams perfect outfielder for Kauffman Stadium.

Gutierrez has 12 home runs in his entire minor league career (almost 5 years). Not really the power you want from 3B...

They were, but Greinke was 2 years of a starting pitcher compared to three months of a reliever with Herrera.

The thing with Zack was that people expected "more". We didn't get a "can't miss" ace or a power-hitter, but pieces that all had concerns that prevented them from being top prospects.

Esky, while considered a defensive maestro (a welcome plus after a Yuni world), had concerns that his bat would never develop.

Cain was relatively old for a prospect, and while he was highly regarded by scouts for his tools, those tools hadn't translated to the field and many were concerned that he was too fragile for a full season.

Jeffress was a reliever that was one suspension from being banned from the MLB for life.

And Odo was very young, many issues could have happened in his development, and at the time he didn't have an out pitch.

These prospects were definitely more valuable than what we got back today, but many (analysts included) thought the Royals could have got back "more" for an ace like Greinke. We now know that the scouts found players who were pitch perfect for Kauffman (Fantastic speed, incredible defense, and contact hitters whose hits would more often fall with the K's spacious dimensions). This trade seems in line with what Moore looks for - and considering Soler's recent emergence (injury notwithstanding), I'll be at least hopeful that they can emerge in our system.

Man...These all seem like guys that may make the majors but may only be backup/utility type of dudes.

Once again shit like this is why ****ing up the draft will kill you, rebuilding your farm system with trades is essentially impossible now.

It's not a great trade it's marginal but it's what you can get when no one will move on high level prospects anymore...so this is what you get. A shitty team with a high payroll with a bunch of guys no one will give anything of value for.

Dayton Moore has really screwed the pooch with this farm system over the last 5 years.

Hopefully they can package Moose and Whit...gotta trade both

@jorgecastillo: From someone who's seen Yohanse Morel: Pretty good arm. Has touched 95 with a good slider. He's 17 and has appeared in one game in the Dominican Summer League. Years away.

Merrifield has years of control but unless he goes to a team that values his versatility is his value really that high?

Again, I hope Moore has the balls to trade someone like Merrifield. As some have mentioned, we may be even worse off than when Moore took over. We don't have any Butlers, Gordons, Greinkes, etc. in our system. Teams like Detroit and Chicago have been able to trade off valuable pieces like Verlander, Eaton, Sale, etc. for good hauls in recent years. We simply don't have much of value to trade, and I doubt Moore has the cajones to deal with the fan backlash from trading a Perez or Merrifield.

2 WS Appearances and WS Title is hardly screwing the pooch.

He drafted like total shit and has barely anyone left with value due to them either sucking or costing to much...

They also seem concerned about pissing people off so I don't really see them moving Perez even though there is an argument that a catcher his age with that many knee surgeries isn't for long at that position and if he becomes 1B his value declines quite a bit.

I said with the farm system, which frankly he did, this farm system has produced jack squat in years. Even the dudes he traded aren't good.

Agreed on all counts. Honestly, I don't care about all this family and togetherness. There's no point in keeping players for nostalgia or the fans and their emotional connection. It's also selfish to force players to stick around on 100 loss teams for 3-4 years. Moore already waited too long to start the rebuild, and I feel like he's just going to continue to spin the wheels and go nowhere.

That’s kind of where I’m at. Yeah, our farm system sucks right now and so does our team. But man I’m still so proud of what they accomplished during that run. It’s hard for me to be TOO mad. Lol

I hope the suck ass trade everybody for draft pick and prospect crowd is happy. Because you really don't need to do that in baseball unlike football and basketball, where you need the top pick.

Also a good point.

Have to hope for that. Whit needs to hit some hr's to help that value too. He has good sb ability too.

Houston would like to disagree with you, the Cubs also...or the way the White Sox are rebuilding, tanking is the new way of baseball rebuilds.

They haven't done a great job with the draft, but part of that is the league neutered them by forcing everyone to go into the slotting system. Probably hurt the Royals as much as anyone else. Not that they've drafted as well as they could anyway... but going over slot helped them build an all-time farm system.

Of course, we also could be sitting here today with a rotation of Ventura, Duffy, Manaea and Junis and people would probably feel a lot better about the future of this team. It didn't work out that way.

Excellent post

Nationals, Yankees, and Cardinals say hi as well. They never tanked.

You don't have to tank if you draft decently during your run and don't completely empty your cupboards. Moore has been lost without top 5 picks (Moose, Hosmer) and without having the ability to spend way over slot on guys before the rule changed. Chicago and Houston won the World Series and are still in contention for several years after their championship. I'm so happy that we won the World Series, but it's a shame that the window was so short. I'm not so sure Moore is the one to bring us out of the mess again.

They started ****ing up before that...it started with Christian Colon and continued into Crow and Starling etc etc.

How small market teams have to operate is radically different than the teams you've mentioned.

The Nationals and Cardinals understand how to build a farm system there's a reason they always have high rated guys...the Royals don't have this down at all.

I however don't think I'd ever use the Yankees as an example for the Royals to follow.

This wasn't suppose to happen, we were supposed to have guys to replace the ones that left, basically had 4-5 years to find those guys in the draft and Moore found exactly 0..thats why we are back to the suck.

No one on this team should be untouchable...we should be in full burn it down and rebuild mode.

There really isn't a point IMO of keeping guys like Salvy, Whit, Duffy, etc. just to he mediocre when you could move them and get some possible future cornerstone pieces.

What do you call Strasburg and Harper?

That's the baseball draft though. You don't always hit on 1st round picks. It's not the NBA. You have to hit on some guys later in the draft too.

At least Colon got to the majors and had a major role in two of the most important innings in Royals history. So he gave us something at least.

I understand that but not hitting on anything for 6 years really isn't excusable.

Duffy will get traded next season I hope if he starts well. They should be listening for Sal.

Also remember we can't trade for anyone that likes porn so that creates a problem.

Cardinals are no different than the Royals. You just need to draft and develop your own players no matter where you draft. MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot in sports. And you need to keep close to a .500 team for revenue purposes. Attendance matters in baseball more than NFL and NBA when it comes to payroll.

Well trade them! This team is shit.

*** Official 2018 Royals Repository ***
 

Orioles’ are sellers not buyers.

Don't really care for the return on the trade at first glance. Was thinking we'd get one legit guy.. we got a no pop 3B..a jag and a lottery ticket

Rizzo is a great GM.

So great that they have zero postseason series wins.

Agreed on Sal. There’s no reason to keep Sal when you aren’t going to do shit with this franchise for next 4 years anyway. His greatest trade value in the next 4 years is now.

Won’t be able to give Moose away.

You have to ****ing sell tickets in baseball. Salvy has more value for the Royals than any prospects he would fetch.

Perez will be broke down by the time they get good so trade him too.

Not really sure I'd blame him for that, his team has 2 ace pitchers and position players everywhere that are good...

Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Yea cause people line up to go watch this shit hole team in the 100 degree heat...

The myth that won't die^

We were 7 games over and leading the WC by 1 game on the July 31 deadline last year. We brought in the PadrAIDS and collapsed, but there was plenty of good logic to go for it one more year with our core. They'd earned the right

I was hoping for some decent returns at the trade deadline to speed up the rebuild. I guess that isn't happening. This is probably going to be another 6-7 year rebuild, which of course shouldn't have to be the case.

Exactly!

While I've heard this from a lot of Cardinals fans, and while they can develop pitchers much better and more consistently than the Royals, their payroll has fluctuated between #8 and #14 over the last ten years (with many of those years in the top 10)- the Cardinals lowest spending year was still higher than what the Royals have ever spent in their payroll a season (in terms of rankings) - that's a pretty considerable difference.

I will concede the Cardinals development is definitely better, but their financial flexibility can't be discounted when compared to the Royals system.

If the farm is so depleted.. then what's the point in even having guys like Soler and Mondesi?

Want to compare tv contracts?

Trade bait.

The Royals had an opening day payroll of $140 million last year, which is higher than any year the Cardinals have had, save for 2017 and 2018. Are you referring to ranks?

Royals were 4th in % of revenue used in payroll last year. So we spend a ton.



We spent 143/250 in revenue, Cards spent 148/315

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUQ_FZtUQAAfCgM.jpg:large

Yep. Ranks, I made the edit right before your reply.

I think Soler is an interesting case. We still have Mondesi under control until like 2023 so it's not like he couldn't develop with all these other guys in single A. There is zero reason to trade him unless you think you can get an amazing deal for some reason.

I won't argue with that either. I'm very happy with what Glass has invested in the team. However, my point is that the Cardinals have regularly outspent the Royals since the end of the strike.

The Cards should be lauded for their scouting and development, but I don't think their ability to spend is an even comp for the Royals.

How do you all feel about the return you got for Herrera? Seems kind of anemic to me.

We're in for some rough years.

How do you feel about the Cards not beating an anemic trade?

It all comes down to our scouting. If two of the players are productive contributors in the Majors by 2020-2021, it's a huge win.

It could also be the second coming of the Johnny Damon trade. Expect something similar to the end of the Baird era if it ends up being a similar return.