Truman Sports Complex is a disgusting piece of shit for the Royals to play at.

But it’s great for the Chiefs.

Sure thing

I'm not very plugged in to Royals news. Is there anything rumored for what they'll do (under the assumption that the TSC is destined to be a giant, vacant lot)?

They could have been downtown if they stuck to their guns on the original East village site. But John or city hall got hungry eyes for the crossroads and got crushed for it.

Wasn’t even close. Wholesale rejection of their “plan”

Why wasn’t the area around TSC ever built up over the past 50+ years? Adam’s Mark, Holiday Inn, Drury Inn, Denny’s, Taco Bell and a couple gas stations seems to have been the extent of “growth”. What happened?

It was a truly bizarre process

From the Chiefs lack of engagement to Sherman seemingly changing locations with each finger of scotch downed to ultimately picking a spot everyone universally hated then even modifying it days before the vote in some last minute plea

It seemed like the ultimate appeal to authority when in reality it just looks like they were winging it

Citizens are flat out rejecting public money for stadiums.

It is what it is.

Last sentence sums it up. John isn’t savvy. Just another boomer billionaire who never got told no in his life until now.

Chiefs priority is World Cup 2026 at Arrowhead. Chiefs will not make any public statements about any involvement with these attention seeking Kansas politicians until after World Cup.

The Royals are the team that said they want a new stadium. The plain fact that these dumbass Kansas politicians lead off all of these attention seeking plans with Chiefs and all the released drawings are football stadiums show you that they are just blowing smoke up folks asses.

Chiefs said they want to stay at Arrowhead. Royals say they want a new stadium. Chiefs are locked into Arrowhead through January 2031 and are hosting World Cup 2026 games at Arrowhead.

Chiefs Super Bowl LVII rings say Arrowhead is Lamar Hunt's favorite place on Earth.

Every time there is one of the dumbass news stories about a new dumbass Kansas Politician talking about Chiefs moving to Kansas, you can think about how the Kansas City Sports Commission folks responsible for the World Cup will tell those Kansas politicians to give Sporting Kansas City and KU as much money as they need to be able to host some country's national team. And the only contact from Clark Hunt and the Chiefs with Kansas politicians will be to let them know that Kansas better give the World Cup people everything they ask for to make this area a successful host site.

Wonder if the new Kansas stadium will get a World Cup semi finals once its built?

The new open air Chiefs stadium.

The hottest place for winter alpine and X-country skiing this side of..., uh, yea.

On 810 today they stated the Chiefs would have a 6/1/2025 deadline to accept the Kansas deal.

If the spot they are thinking is the Legends, it will never get any big events because it is too far from most of the hotel rooms in the region and there is no public transportation.

Colorado, obviously.

Like the mother****ers have any leverage to impose a deadline on the Kansas City Chiefs while they are right in the middle of finishing up the install of all the World Cup 2026 changes at Arrowhead.

I don't know, that's just what they said. Could be some mechanism of the STAR bonds legislation rather than some arbitrary deadline. It's gonna take a while to build the thing anyways so the Chiefs can't just wait around forever.

Are you under the impression that it's hard for multi billion dollar corporations to focus on multiple priorities at once?

Tell me more about the public transportation to the TSC

Great place for players to get arrested and help pay for the amenities -KANSAS

There also haven't been major events. Kemper was the last place that a final four was held. And that was way before what it takes to host one now.

I guess the World Series isn’t a major event…that I rented a car and drove to

This tied at the hip arrangement for the two teams is kind of unique and I don't believe either team or either league wants that kind of deal anymore. Goal 1 was to get rid of the TSC bond and it would have worked pass or fail.

Since the vote failed it gives the teams and leagues even more leverage and a chance to shop around until they land the sweetheart deal.

From a business view, I don't think the Royals want to be here and it only benefits them when the vote failed.

Rashee Rice will be close to the Kansas Speedway, so that’s good

The Royals are an ownership group made up of mostly Kansas City natives and big names. I really find it hard to believe they want anything else to but to be downtown if they can swing it. It seems like it'd be in their best interest all the way around given their business interests.

While the Royals have waffled around, the Chiefs have been pretty clear about their intentions. They flat said Arrowhead was not worth renovating beyond what they just proposed in the vote, and people said no. Now Clark has been pretty clear they need to look at other options, and that it takes several years to build a new stadium so they need to figure out their next step in the next year to year and a half. It makes sense because if they sort this out by next summer it gives them 4-5 years to build something new.

A baseball franchise outside of Kansas City would likely earn more money than one inside.

Once you're at the level of wealth where you're "allowed" to buy an ownership stake in a baseball franchise: loyalty accounts for piss all.

Ok

Every word of this is nonsense based on nothing. Listen to the podcast before posting for all our sakes

Who needs tailgating when you'll have a Bucee's right by the stadium. I hear their brisket sandwiches are really good. You can pick up a six-pack, too, and drink it in the parking lot. 🤪

I was at Mexico vs Uruguay tonight.
You don't want the World Cup.

Not that it was your point, and I could be mistaken, but I don't think Buc-ee's sells alcohol....not that I've noticed anyway.

The use of STAR bonds to build the stadium in Kansas seems like it would be questionable. The proposal right now is that it would fund the entire building. Those are not guaranteed bonds, so think about what an investor has to consider in terms of whether sales tax revenue from the stadium events will pay them off. Let's say they get 500 games with 70,000 fans at each. That's 35 million. Let's say each fan spends $400 and sales tax is 10%. That's only 1.4 billion. The stadium supposedly will cost 2 or 3 billion. That seems like a bad bet for an investor. I sure as hell wouldn't plan on a NFL Stadium having 500 big crowds over its lifetime. That would take decades to achieve, given that typically a team plays fewer than 12 games at home a year.
I don't think Kansans are so naive that they will let this proposal go through. It is based on crazily optimistic assumptions.

The average fan cost is closer to $700 than $400.

And that's just today.

what does the average Kansan have to do with risk to an investor buying bonds in one of the safest sports for one of the safest teams? Also doing math is really stupid unless you have all of the figures and you clearly don’t you’re just shooting in the dark

Although not guaranteed by the government, a default on the STAR bonds threatens the credit ratings for those governments, which is why they need Kansas lawmaker approval and the approval of government agencies.
Also, doing math on the main elements of what drives the prospects for paying off the investors is what most investors will be doing when they decide whether to make the investment. There has already been a default on a STAR bond project, the Prariefires development. If very optimistic assumptions about total attendance and sales tax revenues don't put one in the ballpark of a plausible path to the bonds being paid, that's a big problem for the folks selling pie in the sky. That's why Missouri lawmakers aren't panicked about this latest con.

I posted this quite a few pages back, but I guess nobody clicked it. STAR bonds actually carry a great deal of uncertainty. They've never been used at close to as high of a level as would be necessary for the Chiefs or Royals. The closest thing is the Prairiefire project, which is now default on payments.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...288422965.html

FIFA was willing to show some grace to a venue built fifty years ago.

The whole fashion now is to build new in central areas that can have a lot of people walk to the venues or use public transportation.

You have to be a ****ing fool to think NCAA of NFL would want to host big events at some suburban dome.

Pontiac Silverdome in 1981 is the last Super Bowl at a dome in the suburbs.

Final Four at Tropicana Field about 15 years ago is the last one at a suburban dome.

Chiefs are never going to build there, but say that they did, They might get one Super Bowl that will not be great and never get another one.

You don't know shit. Listen to the podcast?

What podcast? Asshole.

Is there some credible podcast that has some shithead saying that World Cup 2026 at Arrowhead was not the biggest thing that KC has ever successfully bid on and one that is not personally meaningful to the Hunt family?

Is there some dumbass podcast that says the Super Bowl LVII rings for the Chiefs do not say that Lamar Hunt says that Arrowhead Stadium is his favorite place on Earth?

Go ahead and listen to your podcast for shitheads that do not know anything about anything.

Are you under the impression that Kansas and Missouri did not team up for the World Cup 2026 bid and that they will have to team up for it to be a success and that all this stupid shit by these attention whore politicians is not a bunch of overly publicized nonsense that does not mean shit?

Why would the Chiefs need to be swindled into some stupid shit that undermines their goal to keep playing at Arrowhead after January 2031 and to have World Cup 2026 at Arrowhead be the biggest success possible in tribute to Lamar Hunt and all the people who worked so hard to have a successful bid?

Even if Chiefs are playing in a new venue sometime after 2031. They could still play additional years at Arrowhead in the meantime.

I guess the reason dumbass polticians get attention for bullshit, is that naive folks buy into these dramatic suspenseful deadlines that nobody on the Chiefs gives a shit about.

oh okay lol drink antifreeze then

They carry a risk for the investors that buy the bonds, not normal Kansas taxpayers.

Prairiefire is a dumb shopping center with a museum nobody cares about.

The Speedway was built on STAR bonds and was so successful it was paid off really early so there's you success story.

So that is the podcast that has your dumbass not knowing shit about shit. the drink antifreeze podcast?

Tell me exactly what your genius mind says is going to happen as far as the venue where the Chiefs play games after January 2031 and maybe you can explain how indifferent the Hunt family is about hosting World Cup 2026 and really does not give a shit about Arrowhead no matter what the Super Bowl LVII Rings say.

Stupid Asshole.

Your anger IS hilarious but for the sake of others who may want to know what is actually going on and not just scream venom like a petulant child, here they are....


THIS

THIS

and

THIS will tell you all you need to know. It's not some random podcast it's 810 talking about this issue in detail.


Don't let the fact that I acquiesced into providing an effort post distract you from the drinking of antifreeze, however. You should absolutely still do that.

Part of the Speedway was built on STAR Bonds, not all of it:
"Funding the $283 million racing complex was $167 million in public funds comprised of STAR Bonds supported by annual sales taxes, utility company contributions and matching funds from the local road improvements
budget plus $116 million in private equity from ISC."
https://www.iedconline.org/clientupl..._09_Summer.pdf


The State of Kansas did a report on their STAR Bond projects and noted that their Department of Commerce has two tourism goals for their projects, that at least 30% of users come from over 100 miles away and that at least 20% come from outside Kansas.
https://www.kslegislature.org/li_202...0220118_01.pdf

In Figure 2 of the report, you can see that the Speedway has been a success in part because it meets these two goals. The other sports projects with STAR Bonds don't come close to bringing in at least 30% of users from over 100 miles away. I doubt that Arrowhead ever has 20,000 fans from that far away, but I could be wrong.

The Scoop and Score proposal is talking about fully funding a NFL stadium in a region that already has one and the proposal basically amounts to sentencing Kansans in the 2050s and beyond to be stuck with a stadium that has lost its luster and that never came close to bringng in enough revenue to justify its costs or the risks that investors took. Of course, I doubt that proposal will go forward without serious modification because it's so preposterous. The Chiefs weren't even asking for as much charity as the folks behind this proposal are offering. Kansans aren't that reckless, or at least not the part of Kansas represented by the majority will.

I am under the impression it's exactly the same as the new stadium, part STAR bonds, part private equity.

Like that Tarwater guy said the Chiefs have to come up with "hundreds of millions".


Anyway, from that site so take it with a grain of salt:

So, I come at this as someone who has traded bonds for the last two decades of my life at Goldman Sachs and now at a hedge fund, and while I’ve never heard of these bonds (nothing wrong with that btw), I did some cursory digging.

The fact that this is marketed as this risk-free-too-good-to-be-true financing mechanism should raise some major red flags. STAR bonds have in aggregate never been issued in the size required to fund these stadiums, so this is seriously untested from a market’s perspective. And this notion that the risk is on the bondholders so everything is great?! These bondholders aren’t stupid. They understand the risk and the limited buyer base. The interest rate they’ll require will be prohibitive and that will increase the risk the project fails.

But it doesn’t matter, right? Because the bondholders only have recourse to the sales tax generated in the economic zone and would not have any claim on the state/municipality? Well, yes, in theory. But theory is not practice and one article cites a wink and a nod relationship between investors in these bonds and the state that they’d step in in the event of a default. You can imagine that a high profile project like this failing would have reputational impact for the state of Kansas more broadly (see:contagion) and there’s a reasonable chance they would bail them out if push came to shove. Think the government and the implicitly guaranteed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Essentially, the Chiefs and Royals would be benefiting from the backstop of the state of Kansas.

I also wonder if some of these districts aren’t sized up a little larger than they would otherwise be which would carve out some sales tax that would otherwise go to the state. Wouldn’t shock me.

I’m a bit skeptical of Kansas politicians peddling snake oil without fully understanding the economics.

Straight from Tarwater:

Maybe they meant the Chiefs would buy a bunch of bonds.

Thanks for the info, Kiimo. I just saw on the KCTV clip that the proposal does include that $1 billion come from the Chiefs. https://www.kctv5.com/video/2024/04/...chiefs-royals/

So, I was wrong to say that the proposal was going to rely on STAR Bonds to fund the entire project. Thanks for the additional information.

Still, I would think just using rough estimates about potential revenues from sales tax that it's a very risky bet for investors, unless the total issue of Bonds is somewhere around $1 Billion or less. Like TwistedChief mentioned in his recent post, investors will expect a big interest rate and there might even be some backstopping, the sort of thing that happened when the government stepped in to bail out some previous bad bets made in the finance industry.

One thing that could also happen is that the government sets asides funds to pay off the bond obligation in case the revenues from taxes aren't sufficient. That's the sort of thing that investors might ask for in order to agree to a lower interest rate. Apparently, the Unified Government of Kansas City, Kansas does this for several STAR bond projects, as they discuss this on page 88 of this report on their Long-Term Financial Forecast 2022-2026, https://www.wycokck.org/files/assets...11-19-2020.pdf Fortunately, they've not yet had to use those set aside funds to pay off investors, but those kinds of deals involving trading risks between investors and the government could spell impacts for "average Kansans".

The water park where the kid got his head decapitated was built with STAR bonds. There's a lot of examples of where those things failed big time. I'm glad this will be Kansas problem and not Kansas City's problem soon

That’s interesting. I would imagine that’s exactly what would need to happen to make this a financially feasible proposition. Kansas lawmakers are either too obtuse to understand the economics or deliberately misleading so that this becomes a last minute bait-and-switch where the taxpayer bears some direct exposure.

I don't know the details, but I think somehow the Schlitterbahn Bonds haven't been defaulted on, yet. The Unified Government has pivoted and some new developments are on the way, there, in what's called (or going to be called) Vacation Village. https://fox4kc.com/news/wyandotte-co...ation-village/

In the 2023 STAR Bonds Annual Report, they show that those bonds are still being paid off, so they must have defined the district where sales and use taxes come from to be bigger than just the water park itself. https://www.kansascommerce.gov/wp-co...port-FINAL.pdf

Damn that's surprising I thought they did for sure. I know Praire Fire did

The Royals are the team that wants a new venue.

That does not even make any sense to court the team that wants to stay in their current venue and has a dozen dates a year compared to the one that says it wants a new place and has at least 81 dates.

This nonsense is so dead letter, if they meant business they would court the Royals and try to find a spot near State Line or a part of downtown KCK.

And, Carol Marinovich was very important part of the development that did happen. KCK does not have the unity and leadership to get things done like they did when Marinovich was a key figure.

jettio posting


https://youtu.be/XBZUz4C6kqk?si=N41hoCxyMiIeu7qs

You keep saying this like it's true.

Stupid person says stupid thing

News at 10

Holy crap that video. I used to like that song but this might have ruined it.

This is going to be awesome. You will have to root for a team in KANSAS.

This is a big big big deal for a number of posters in this thread. Shakes them to their core

I don't even understand why this is such a contention point.

Just mutt stuff mostly

Well based on other teams relocating stadiums, this is a big deal up until they move and afterwards it's pretty much a nothing burger.

Sure, you may gain and lose some casual fans based on driving times, but otherwise not much changes.

SF moved.

The NYC teams play in New Jersey. Whatever.

Oh, right. KC fans are different.

Oh agreed. The folks like comochiefsfan crying that they’ll never drive to KS to watch the chiefs are largely full of shit. But it’s what we’ve got to talk about at the moment

I live in Missouri...the legends is a way nicer area than where ****ing Truman is.

Missourians sound like the guy in a shitty ass trailer telling the people building a 7 bedroom house that it will never work.

There are people on here who refuse to go into Kansas or spend money there.


Children, basically

You might get some former Broncos fans.

Chicago fans couldn't stop going nuts about Soldier Field moving to the suburbs. Those people are crazy there. If you don't live in a ten block square on the south side and know the very best Italian Beef sandwich place there, you aren't from the "real" Chicago, you're from "outside Chicago".

They're all stupid and it's because they have nothing else going on in their lives.





https://y.yarn.co/ff8a6556-6375-4bcc...2f36e_text.gif

That's actually a great point. Probably offset by losing some fans in Missouri over time. People who aren't necessarily connected to KC but adopt the Chiefs because they are "Missouri's" team. It's actually something Clark should be looking at. Missouri is a much more populated state.

If they keep winning they'll get way more fans because of that...

If the Chiefs lose fans because the team moves across the border to Kansas then there is something wrong with their fandom.

Raise your hand if you'll stop being a Chiefs fan because they move to Kansas.

Exactly what I was thinking. Just go ahead and stop rooting now.

The higher the level of government involvement, the greater Epic Disaster happens. Lack of experience multiples it

also true.

If Hunt gets in bed with them. Maybe he plans on paying cents on the dollar later. This may work out

Chiefs are staying at Arrowhead.

Arrowhead Stadium is one of the most important assets involving the Chiefs.

Why would Chiefs leave Lamar Hunt's Favorite place on Earth?

Because the Royals asked for a new stadium and built the wrong puzzle to get that done and stupidly forced an election that lost?

When players in free agency say they don't care about money and they just want to find the right fit and a team that wins....you believe that too huh?

It was Lamar Hunt's favorite place on Earth and his dream.

He it's alive anymore and Clark stands to leave his unique footprint on the franchise with a new stadium. Hell they might it even name it Lamar Hunt Field at Buc-ee's Kansas Speedway Stadium in his honor.

Or maybe you’re just generalizing and highlighting a small group of fans who are the loudest and don’t represent the majority that aren’t stupid and do have things going on in their lives and can cope with it.

But it’s not even comparable. Soldier Field is the oldest NFL stadium and in the heart of Chicago. Moving it an hour north to the suburbs is far more of a different experience than moving from Jackson County to wherever in Kansas it’ll be located. That’s random location 1 to random location 2.

Your a clown

Well yeah.

The new SF stadium is soulless compared to Candlestick. But the old stadium had bad access and rebuilding it at that location even with a heavy subsidy by the city of SF didn't make economic sense for the team. The new 'corporate' stadium has great access and has been a success.