Okay, so you think the average draft should yield 3 starters? That every team should be able to turn its entire starting roster over every 7 seasons on nothing but draft picks?

Because that's essentially what you're saying. That getting 2 viable NFL starters/season in the NFL draft shouldn't even be considered an average draft.

Then again, it's pretty important that I consider the source.

Trouble is how shitty the Chiefs have been guys like Pollard, Page, Hali, Tank were forced into bigger roles and glorified/critized more than they should be. All are solid starters but not superstars. You throw Pollard in a safety with Flowers at corner and Berry at free safety. He probablly isn't that bad. You put a bonafide Pass rusher at RDE and Hali is fine. Legit coaching and adding a couple playmakers and we could have had a pretty good 4-3 defense.

I'm pointing out your fozzy logic. Herb Taylor should be a starter yet when he was released nobody else picked him up and made him a starter. Right.

Ya know, I admittedly didn't want Sanchez last year but man we would be in a great position right now if we had.

We could trade back to 20 and really stock this team with talent.

You don't move off an elite player unless you get a ridiculous offer.

Otherwise you look like a team that doesn't want to pay money or has a pressing desire to get back to 8-8 at all costs. I don't think anyone here wants to do what the Browns did at 5 last year...do you?

Tyson Jackson is a horrible player - period. He'll be horrible this year and the next. He isn't quick enough to the point of attack to be a solid 5 technique and he doesn't play with enough leverage.

I know, I know -- "He just needs more time!!!!!"; "I'll bet you thought Dorsey was worthless" (False, BTW); blah blah blah.

Spare me. Cassel and Jackson showed absolutely nothing that would suggest they ever have a chance to be anything more than average football players. Given the positions they were taken and/or amount of trust they were given, that's absolutely unacceptable.

For the record, Pollard had 3 mediocre seasons and then a pro-bowl caliber one...after being drafted 50 freakin' players later.

So ignore that part, I don't care. I disagree that Taylor isn't a starting caliber O-lineman, but it was a throwaway line at the end of the post.

Herm Edwards never had a 'bad' draft in KC. He had 2 solid ones and a great one. That's a track record that most any coach or GM in football would be happy to have.

Without question.

Those guys weren't superstars and aren't likely to ever become one. But like I said, while that is ideal, it certainly isn't expected.

Those guys were solid starters. The starting lineups of even championship clubs consist of about 50% 'solid' starters.

If you can get 2 solid starters in every draft you take part in, you're no worse than average, IMO.

Bullshit a team that drafts like Herm did wins six games in two years.

I don't know about that. 2006 and 07 were below average at best.

It's pretty widely known that Carl was handcuffing Herm in the early years. It wasn't until Herm and Kuharich were given the independence to make decisions and Carl got pushed to the side that the Chiefs started to make great personnel moves.

Herm wasn't given a lot of resources. He wasn't given a lot of money to spend. And until 2008, he didn't have a lot of marquee draft picks to work with. I can only imagine how our roster would have looked if Peterson: a) didn't **** up all the Vermeil drafts; b) didn't stupidly push Jared Allen out of town; c) didn't force the team to build now instead of rebuild when it was too late.

For as much shit as Herm got, he did just fine. And if the Chiefs ran a 4-3 today, they wouldn't be far away from a terrific defense.

Wait, the '09 draft is still having an impact?

But I thought many said, "It's just one year!"?

You have the audacity to suggest that decisions don't take place in a vacuum? Other posters around here have not suggested the same, and they were not vilified as "bad" fans.

Can you argue that the last 2 seasons of coaching weren't possibly the 2 worst seasons of coaching/scheming you've ever seen?

The line between a W and a L in the NFL is so shockingly thin that a braindead coach/coordinator setup can very easily cost you a handful of wins/season.

Those teams underperformed incredibly. If they didn't, they'd have been sitting somewhere around .500 over the 2 seasons.

In other words: Average.

And that had nothing to do with the fact that all of Vermeil's players were at the end of their careers.

Or the fact that because of horrible drafting during the Vermeil years, the Chiefs had almost no good talent under 30.

You're essentially asking Herm Edwards to build an entire team in 3 drafts, with almost no free agent help.

Didn't like him.

Still don't.