I am not sure that the question is if CEH is a good back or not but more along was that 32nd pick better suited for a different position like OL, LB? Veach may not have known that Damien was opting out, so they may not have anticipated CEH to be the feature back right away.

I have no problem with CEH but we needed a DB or LB at 32. We have found RB studs in the 3rd. Maybe even OL. Guys opting out hurt us bad.

CEH is averaging almost 6ypc on the season to the left side. He's averaging 2.7ypc to the right.

The right side of the line is not playing well.

They took a LB in the 2nd round.

They don't even have a need at DB. They'd be loaded there if it weren't for injuries.

Hed be a little better. I just think he’s too small to ever be a big time Back. And if your going to be small, you better have elite speed to compensate.

He's bigger than Barry Sanders. He's 2 inches shorter but weighs the same as Dalvin Cook. He's 3 inches shorter but actually heavier than Ronald Jones and Aaron Jones.

This whole "he's too small" narrative is silly.

Well mostly. I think it’s time to replace Dirty Dan. We need to start looking for a DB who can match up on TE’s bc that ain’t Dan.

Yeah, that's probably true.

They put Ward on Waller yesterday and that wasn't good either.

It’s the equivalent of having Dexter McCluster as the starting RB - and that’s not good enough

You just went full Deberg. Never go full Deberg.

Ok so you see no similarities between CEH and McCluster?

get the **** outta here with that bullshit.

Absolutely none.

If you do, get your eyes checked immediately.

They both average around 2-2.5 yards from every first down carry? The Chiefs are going to need to stop being so predictable on first and second down, add some more screens and jet sweeps etc., but this same ol' hand it off to CEH and expect him to make yards between the tackles on designated running downs needs to go.

****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
 

Add to that McCluster was only really effective in the passing game which is what I suspect CEH is as well.

Neither have the strength or power to drag defenders with them, so end up being safety valve types.

One might look to the past when other GMs had great franchise QBs & how their moves either helped or hurt the respective teams.

I really like CEH as a player but drafting a running back in the first round is a very Bill Polian type move IMO.

For my $$ when you have Pat Mahomes at QB you draft DB/pass rush & Oline.

A running back just isn't going to make much of a difference for this type of football team.

Yep. I think Damian and CEH would have been great together. Don't think they intended for CEH to be the starter right out of the gate

Overreaction Planet.

What is it with this forum's stupid obsession with RBs trucking people over?

Emmitt Smith didn't truck people over. Neither did Barry Sanders. Or our own Jamaal Charles, Priest Holmes... prime LJ...

All RBs are different. They play differently. CEH can still break tackles and make sweet moves. He's not going to be Okoye, though.

Just stop it with this nonsense. It's almost as if some of you morons want Mike Alstott or bust because you saw him break a few tackles that one time.

Who cares if a RB is short?

I prefer my RBs to be midgets as long as they have a low center of gravity. It's tough for tall RBs to run low to the ground. Makes them far easier to tackle, and they're more likely to have that awkward upright running style.

Very few rushers can make that kind of thing work.

Idiot.

CEH is on pace to have a 1600 yards from scrimmage season (Rookie Kareem had like 1782 scrimmage yards)

CEH has 344 rushing yards in 5 games, on pace for 1100 rush yards (we haven’t had a 1000 yard back since rookie Hunt)

CEH has 169 receiving yards through 5 games, on pace for 540.

So he has actually posted good numbers. People who expected him to be as good as Kareem Hunt were going to be disappointed though

It’s also interesting that Mahomes is running so successfully this year. He’s on pace for a 400 yard rushing season.

Also interesting that among AFC Champion teams from 2005-2019, the only Pro Bowl running back was Ray Rice in 2012

fine, i look forward to CEH being as effective as Kareem was in carrying the load.

I know this much. We must get more out of our running game to beat good teams. OL needs to man the hell up and start moving people. Mahomes needs it like every QB does.

You compared CEH to Dexter McCluster, you moron

I just let it go b/c I didn't have the words. Yours work fine...

In terms of effectiveness and production I think they will be the same - time will tell

I thought the basketball takes in this place were bad..

They play different ****ing positions, you idiot.

What's next? Are you going to compare Bopete Keyes to Breeland Speaks?

****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
 

For ****s sake McCluster was played WR later in his career. Drafted as and began his career as an RB I mean he had 500 rushing yards in his second year.

The problem isn’t that he’s bad. He’s not. It’s that he’s been thrust into a RB#1 role immediately. Brian Westbrook (who CEH has been compared to) at least had competent help in Staley and Buckhalter.

The problem is mainly CEH has nothing to help him out.

I fail to see how that is CEH's fault or should be used against him in any way?

Bill Belicheck did it TWICE.

Ceh is averaging 80 to 90 total yards per game right now which is decent imo. Kareem's start In KC was not the norm so i'm not holding them expectations against Clyde. The big thing Clyde needs to perfect is his ability to punch it in inside the ten...that's what Kareem was a master at and it got him cheap td's even when he didn't have a great game. Thus far I think Clyde was excellent against Houston and The Ravens. Hopefully we'll see him back to that form next monday.

CEH going into yesterday's game, had 175 yards after contact and 2.6 yards per carry after contact.

BOTH numbers are superior to Kareem Hunt in 2018.

This fantasy that Kareem Hunt was some unstoppable force is pure nostalgia and nothing more.

And not only that, but after the first 5 games of Kareem's rookie season, he had SEVEN straight games with less than 100 yards rushing.

During that stretch of 7 games, he rushed for 40 yards or less 4 times.

I'm getting pretty tired of having to remind people that even the legendary Kareem Hunt had more than his share of bad games.

At what point in McCluster's rookie year was he ranked 7th in the NFL in rushing yards?

Because CEH is.

CEH has 25 more yards on 1 less carry than...

Derrick Henry.

People on this board are just plain dumb.

That dude you're responding to is a certified reerun

I'm sorry.

There's so many terrible takes around this place after a loss like this, I lose track and lose my focus.

Do you guys remember how incredible Kareem Hunt was his rookie year back in 2018? Wow.

I wish CEH could be as good.














:evil:

This is paint eating territory.

He played stupid Todd Haley reerun gadget WR early in his career. McCluster was too slow and stupid to convert fully, but Haley really wanted him running in the slot on base plays. So they force fed him the ball and even helped him out by lining him up out of the backfield until he could figure his shit out. Meanwhile, the whole, "Let's figure out how to get him the ball in space!" was always a wasted play because he wasn't always the best option. Those were very inefficient plays considering we had a much faster and lethal player we should have focused on getting the ball in space to-- Jamaal Charles.

In 2011 they moved him back to RB, and then brought him back to reerun gadget WR in 2012. Reid finally figured out what was reeruned about McCluster and got him playing slot in 2013, though.

It's quite disingenuous to say McCluster was a RB for any season but his 2nd year in KC. And it's even more disingenuous to compare the two players, since McCluster was a huge pussy who went down if you aggressively looked at him, and CEH can actually do a pretty damn good job of breaking tackles in this league.

People are really losing their minds after the 4-1 Super Bowl Champions lose one game they needed everything to go against them and then some to lose by 8.

It's not having a loss. Its the way they lost. The OL blocking and running game has been bad 3 out of 5 games. Teams are beating our OL. LAC bad, Pats bad and now the Raiders. That's a pattern and it's concerning.

Unrealistic standard comparing him to Kareem, who had a full offseason, training camp, preseason behind a better OL.

Yet he still compares favorably. ;)

Yep.

I think it's just because CEH hasn't had an eye-popping game like Kareem did in his FIRST GAME EVER.

As soon as that happens, people will be like, "wow, OK, please block."

Did anyone expect CEH to run over defenders on a regular basis? That's not his game, but he is harder to bring down than I thought he would be. The weak-ass OL is the problem. Fisher is the only one playing at an adequate level, barely.

His yards after contact numbers are actually superior to Hunt's at this point.

That is probably another indictment of the OL. If CEH wasn't adept at gaining yards after contact, our running game would be useless.

The problem isn't Clyde. The problem is the interior o-line. Especially now that Osemele is done. That one really hurts.

Yeah, it hurts a lot. He was the best IOL on the team.

Clyde would be amazing behind a decent interior OL. He is so elusive and slippery. It’s funny they said this offense suited him so well, as a runner I don’t think it does. As a receiver I think he will eventually be a weapon. But the way we’re running him does not impress me.

It would also help if Andy actually gave him the ball on a consistent basis or did anything but run him up the gut on 2nd and 10. The lack of preseason really hurt what we could have done with him. But he’s still been moderately impressive. Obvious talent but I don’t think Andy really knows how to use him yet. But he’ll figure it out because he’s god damn Andy Reid.

I hate the delayed guard pulling runs. Just zone block it and let him use his vision.

Jacksonville has an undrafted rookie RB named James Robinson who is outplaying CEH in a worse offense. I like CEH, but he is not living up to his draft position and he clearly isn’t a goaline back. No reason for the Chiefs to have reached form him in the 1st round. Even if CEH gets 5 or 6 receptions a game, those would normally be going to Tyreek or Kelce, don’t see how that’s a good thing. Tyreek isn’t getting as many targets this year as he has in the past and that’s a shame.

You might want to look again.

CEH:

81 carries, 344 yards, 4.2 ypc, 1 TD, 68.8 ypg
17 receptions, 169 yards, 9.9 ypc

Robinson:

73 carries, 333 yards, 4.6 ypc, 1 TD, 66.6 ypg
19 receptions, 183 yards, 9.6 ypc

Robinson is NOT outplaying CEH. They're almost interchangeable at this point.

Curious why you only have James Robinson with 1 rushing TD when he has 3. Their stats are pretty similar, except for Robinson’s TDs. Outplayed might not have been the word I should have used, but clearly the Chiefs would have been way better off using the 1st round pick on a different position and grab a RB later.

Clyde needs to read the blocks/holes a little better, but the talent is clearly there. Dude has been great receiving and finishing runs.

Sorry, typo. He does have 3.

And when you're picking #32 overall, does it really matter? They got a full-time starter out of a pick that is practically a 2nd rounder.

A big part of it is the OL is not good at run blocking, made worse now that Big O is done, and the holes are not there like they should be - especially against 3 and 4 man fronts. KC should be able to punish teams for dropping everyone back into coverage.

It's kind of the opposite of the Alex Smith years.


The box is wide open now. Before when the run would get fisted we would blame it on checkdowns and everyone loading the box.

Not that way anymore.

CEH has been okay, but I was a expecting a little more.

Yep running the ball is how you beat 8 man coverage

Tony Gonzalez said that CEH is not a 3 down back and that he is more like Sproles, is he right?

Yes and No. No he is wrong IF we could actually run block but Yes since we can't.

This thread is fantastic. Agreed, CEH has flashed huge potential. But he's not there yet. And having bell puts less pressure on him to quickly learn and also forces less than 25 touches a game which is way too high for a rookie.

Clyde is fine. He finds daylight well but the interior OL is not good. Not on him.

CEH has come out on a ton of third downs, so yes. That’s somewhat correct at this point.

No, it’s really not.

TG is saying that CEH isn’t a 1st/2nd down RB. He is. He’s coming out on 3rd down because his pass blocking isn’t up to par yet.

^

I always felt like having 2 legit backs was important that way no one is worn completely down by January. Damien Williams’ freshness has played a critical role in the last two playoff runs.

My guess is Clyde really blows up like Damien does in those games.

If you could do the draft again, do you take Swift or Taylor or do you think CEH will be the best back?

CEH 1Rb Bell 2RB and really I think Darrel Williams is the perfect 3rd RB he wont get many carries but is powerful enough to come in get you that yard you need

I'd still take CEH. His upside is there to see, especially in the Chiefs offense. IF we were a run-centric team I might choose differently.

No way do you take Taylor. The dude's wheels could fall off at any time.

He had 1000 touches in college.

Wisconsin RB's have their issues at the next level. Taylor had more carries in college than all of them.

I liked Swift more than CEH, but I also thought CEH was easily the best fit for this offense in the draft and said as much on here before draft day. Since Reid/Veach took him, I’m going to trust their decision for now.

As for Taylor, he simply isn’t a fit.

I really like the CEH signing. I think it shows faith in our organization but, he is a rookie and it is not going to happen over night. The Bell signing shows the need for a veteran presence. If Bell is 100% into this then the rookie can learn from a seasoned vet. It is a matter of time and fingers crossed.

Jury is still out on Clyde...he really hasn't matched his stellar debut performance. He's been serviceable...with some good moments.

IMO, he should be getting more 4-6 yard gains against 3 and 4 man fronts. He didn't get a preseason and is a rookie...so we'll see.

Bell is regarded as one the best pass catching RBs in NFL history...you dont lose that ability in one year. His vision is elite...

The current trend in defensing KC...is to drop everyone into coverage. This is happening due to CEH's ineffectiveness. Teams are daring the Chiefs to run on them...Bell, in theory, is the perfect antidote vs. 3 and 4 man fronts.

If he is even 75% of what he was with the Steelers...KC will be unstoppable.

It looked like they were going to be after the Texans game...disappointed it appeared to be an anomoly...for now.

Bell should be RB1...and Clyde RB2. Le'Veon is multi-year all pro player. Watch and learn...like Mahomes in year one.

Still waiting for CEH to get involved in the passing game. If Bell is there pass protecting I think you'll see it a lot more. At least I hope

Maybe it's just me, but as I watch highlights of kareem hunt, CEH, and bell something interesting popped out at me. I don't know if it's just in the highlights or if there's something there.

CEHs first instinct seems to be to immediately attack the middle. Kareem and leveon seem to like attacking the edges. I was actually surprised as I would have thought of kareem as more of a north south runner. Is CEH basically running into the teeth of our biggest weakness? Should he be running outside more or is he just better suited for inside running?

I agree that CEH was the best RB for our offense, but as I was watching highlights today, I had a thought that maybe if we had drafted a bigger, faster running back, that didn't necessarily fit our offense, our offense would actually be better than it is now.

Maybe if we had a bigger back that could power through the weak holes that our O-line only seems capable of creating, and who could run over the second level of the defense, then those defenses couldn't afford to drop back 7-8 people into coverage.

I feel like CEH has not lived up to the expectations, especially after his week one performance, and it's really not his fault, as the O-line and play calling hasn't really allowed him big opportunities for success. But, I believe he will improve, and eventually our O-line will get better as well. But, right now, maybe a faster running back with a bigger body and more of a bruising style would be helping our offense more.

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