Whining about it is the first step!

You know Kelce hyperextended his knee just before the season started right? You know that he is maybe the greatest TE of all time right? You know that he'll be giving everything he has on Sunday right? Remember this. Kelce is not 40 years old hanging on for a few more paychecks. He's still near the top of his game.

Yeah - what happened to Humphrey? That guy was a legitimate top 5 CB when he signed his extension and he just hasn't lived up to it. Did I miss a lower body injury early in that deal that took a lot out of him?

Because Humphrey, in his prime, was a problem. And at 27 years old, he's not gotten to the age related wall yet (I typically put that at about 29 for DBs). He just hasn't been that guy in awhile.

I'm not whining about it. I'm calling people out. You're a community here, and if you have people like BlackHelicopters leaving messages like that, I figure others should know. Do with that what you will.

Anyway, back to MAHOMES >>>> LAMARUNNINGBACK.

It’s understandable why you would think that seeing as how you have a RB playing the position. :D

The Chiefs are actually better than Baltimore at most positions. That's the rub. It just isn't a Mahomes advantage ROFL

You should PM Bob Dole...

Only on Planet Chiefs i mean Chiefs Planet.

7 nation army blows

The First Rule of Fight Club, you do not talk about Fight Club...
The Second Rule of Fight Club, you do not talk about Fight Club...




https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/90...bbc9d0439b.jpg

Are we talking this version of Travis Kelce that we've seen this season? If it's this version of Kelce I'm taking LaPorta. For 2 reason. He's had the better season and he's younger. The only reason Andrews isn't in tje conversation is because he's been injured.

Marlon isn't put in situations that are conducive to individual success as a corner. He's not used like a true number one CB in the sense that he gets his side of the field or shadows a receiver all game. They play in the slot, outside, on TEs, in the box, etc. It started because the Ravens have had so many injuries over the years that they needed Marlon to fill in on an as needed basis.

That sort of "positionless" football can work, and Kyle Hamilton is now probably the best at that role in the league. But the degree of difficulty in doing that as a corner is higher than as a safety since you're often left with no help.

I get how a Ravens' fan might hold that opinion. You did literally win the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Though that took a historically dominant defense (led by a murderer, yeah, that's right, we just refer to Ray Lewis as a murderer around here. He's not bringing any knives with him to the game Sunday when your team honors him, right? That might change my pick of what's going to happen in the game).

But the year you won with Flacco, he elevated his game from "above-average QB" to "elite QB" during that run. He made big-time plays and played at a top-tier level. He wasn't able to sustain that (kind of like Eli Manning, honestly) and fell off, but SB winning Flacco was an elite QB that year (at least during the playoffs).

But look at the teams that have won Super Bowls in the salary cap era. If you don't have an elite-elite guy, the odds are stacked heavily against you.

Elite/HoF guys:
Aikman (2). Young (1). Favre (1). Elway (2). Warner (1). Brady (7). Manning (2). Roethlisberger (2). Eli Manning (2). Brees (1). Rodgers (1). Russel Wilson (1). Mahomes (2).

Really good players who elevated during their run:
Flacco (1). Foles (1). Stafford (1).

Game manager turds with historically good teams around them:
Johnson (1). Dilfer (1).

Point is, yeah, it is POSSIBLE to win with a game manager type at QB and a great, complete roster around them. It's way, way, way harder.

We've seen both sides of this coin (90s and Alex Smith era with the game manager/complete roster approach vs. Mahomes era) and seen how much more consistent and successful the latter is.

So yeah, of course there's focus on the QB play.

Both of these teams have complete, versatile, and tricky defenses. Both have stars at QB. It's pretty clear that which QB is able to better handle the opposing team's strong D is going to carry the day.

Didn’t expect to wake up and see Brian Billick posting on CP

two days in....LMAO

Then come fight me in the arena. Don't shank me in the alley. These people leaving comments like that in negative reputation remarks while not saying a single thing in this thread are orders of magnitude softer than the people insisting simultaneously that the Chiefs are an invincible dynasty and yet if they lose this week it was always "house money" and they had nothing to lose.

Because that takes away 75% of his game

Injuries, and most of em since he signed his extension in fall of 2020 (not as bad as what happened to Stanley though). And yes he was a legit top 5 CB he was also great at forcing fumbles (8 in the 2020 campaign). In 2021 he had a groin strain in camp that slowed him down a bit, then tore a pec late in the same season. This most recent season he had foot surgery in camp and missed the first 4 games of the season. On top of that he seems to always get dinged up in games and is usually showing up on the injury report. All of these injuries seem to have resulted in him losing a step. He single handidly almost cost the Ravens the game against the Rams as he was getting torched late in that one.

Why?

A leg injury shouldn't impact his processing power...

Dan Orlovsky said he tried to find a weakness on the Ravens defense and he said he couldn't find any.

Oh Nooooo

Other than the good offenses they played putting up 25 PPG

he has the processing power of a solar powered calculator

I glanced at this highlight package from Rams @ Ravens because there's some factors that could play out similarly this Sunday - weather/wet field, in Baltimore, strong armed QB who improvises some, a couple of good receiving options: https://www.nfl.com/videos/rams-vs-r...lights-week-14

To me, you see it - if you can protect your QB, there's plenty of opportunities to exploit that back end. Humphrey didn't look good in that game and he isn't healthy now. The safeties and linebackers can definitely get mixed up passing things off out of condensed/bunch alignments.

On a wet field, rushing the passer is going to be more difficult. Covering receivers is more difficult. Defense is going to be more difficult.

If we are neutralizing the defenses to a degree with the field conditions, to me that does play more into the Chiefs favor because they have the superior passer who is more likely to win if this does become a shootout.

but doesn't that mean it will also be easier for lamar to run rampant? that's the part I worry about

Could, but he can only do that so much. Chiefs will probably cage rush mostly anyways, and dare him to pass.

He also has a propensity to slip on his own and if he does that a few times, that might be all it takes to come out ahead.

Sure, I can accept that having an elite/HOF category QB makes winning a SB easier in the absence of a historically great team otherwise. But the thing is that Lamar is in the elite/HOF category. Two MVPs earns that classification whether people here want to admit it or not. To say that he's not in that category because he hasn't yet won a SB is circular reasoning given that what we're trying to prove is what level of QB you need to win a SB in the first place.

So both teams have that level of QB. No Ravens fan would deny that about the Chiefs, but seemingly every Chiefs fan would deny that about the Ravens. From my view, if they're both in that elite/HOF category, then it's worth looking beyond that to the rest of the rosters. But we never get there because everything devolves to Mahomes > Lamar.

I'm with you...when a good poster tries to have an good discussion, the ad homs are cringey, but I will add, CP has dealt with "hit and run" jagoffs that flame and never return/retract like a man, ever since PM started. Throw in all the "Chiefs get all the calls" and Swift stuff that no Chiefs fans care about, and you can understand the short fuses. I think Sunday will be a classic, would a convincing Bal win surprise me? Hardly...we have all seen a team play out of their minds on a SB run. Would a Chiefs upset surprise me? Like many, I buried this team in Dec. (for me it was the raiders loss) only to see a HoF coaching staff make the necessary adjustments to re-animate the O, Kelce hopefully healing, PM reinvigorated by sitting WRs that couldn't sort it out, Edwards-Helaire looking like a rookie, and the OTs minimizing their mind-numbing frequency of errors. Hope it's clean and injury-free on both sides!

Roquan Smith being a catastrophe in coverage in Chicago only to become one of the better coverage backers in the league in Baltimore is interesting. Tells me they're just damn well coached in their LBer room (especially since Queen - FINALLY - took a step forward in that regard.)

I'd say their secondary is solid but unspectacular. Stephens, Williams, Darby, Maulet and Ya-Sin are gettable, IMO. And the aforementioned Humphrey, should he play.

They have good depth there; few DB rooms go as deep as ours does and theirs qualifies. But I think our top 3 CBs are better than their top 3 CBs.

It gets more interesting if you just say 'top 5 DBs' though:

Hamilton
Stone
Stephens
Humphrey/Darby
Darby/Maulet

vs.

Sneed
McDuffie
Reid
Williams
Edwards/Conner/Watson

I'd take our guys over their because Sneed is Hamilton in his ability to be a swiss army knife when needed (as is McDuffie) but both guys can also lock down an outside weapon.

It's hard to compare LBs/DLs because we use our so much differently than they do. If you just say "well lets compare the box 7" I think you're probably on the right track. In that regard I think they're pretty damn even.

Smith, Queen, Clowney, Madubuike, Pierce, Van Noy, and Jones/Oweh

vs.

Bolton, Gay, Tranquill, Jones, Karlaftis, Omenihu, Nnadi/Danna

I think we have the best player in the group with Jones but this version of Roquan isn't far behind (and dammit Madubuike got good). Gay and Queen are a wash if Gay is healthy, IMO. Clowney/Karlaftis are similar at this stage as well, though Clowney is still a stud against the run. Then trying to compare anyone else just kinda falls apart. But whatever the gap is either way, I'd hate to have to make a living off the difference. They're both strong units.

Defense may just come down to who coaches the better game.

I’ve watched all of that game. The protection is the key thing. Nacua and Kupp were schemed into a lot of space in that one. Demarcus Robinson also made some nice plays as the third receiving option. Someone stepping up to do that for the Chiefs will be important.

This could be a big Noah Gray game, I think.

I wanted to go back and address this comment. The NFL may say your franchise history only goes back to when the team arrived in Baltimore, but the reality is different. The Ravens are the former Cleveland Browns. They arrived in Baltimore as a fully formed franchise and hit the ground running. That is vastly different from putting together an expansion team from scratch, so let's stop pretending the Ravens franchise records only begin with the arrival in Baltimore.

He should probably watch the TE's like Kittle that destroyed them. Even Dalton Schultz was getting open several times last week and he's nothing to write home about.

And he IS a pocket passer after all…

The thing about that game is that lamar literally outplayed stafford through the air , and stafford has a strong arm, and ontop of top lamar is more mobile then pat, so it makes it more difficult to defend him.

But the thing is that Lamar is in the elite/HOF category. Two MVPs earns that classification whether people here want to admit it or not. To say that he's not in that category because he hasn't yet won a SB is circular reasoning given that what we're trying to prove is what level of QB you need to win a SB in the first place.

I personally think he has BECOME elite...it seems experience and the continuity of the Harbaugh regime has helped him riase to a level beyond first MVP year(s). I see a calmer QB that is more accurate than in the past and one who is making much better reads and thinking "run" as last resort, but can still kill you when they call his number. If anyone is slow on Jackson's performance level, it is likely due to his non-traditional style, or a bias consistent with watching every PM game he's ever played, and seeing the Ravens a few times a year...that said, LJ REALLY needs to win this game and have a good SB to cement the "top tier" claim!

That makes sense. I can tell there's definitely some projection in terms of visitors all being lumped in together. Nothing I shouldn't expect, and no one is forcing me to be here.

I personally hope the Ravens/Chiefs can become a bit of a rivalry. The Ravens have had healthy rivalries with the Steelers and Patriots that were mostly defined by mutual respect. No real animosity in the way that most rivalries are defined. The Ravens had to prove they belonged with Pittsburgh/New England before it truly became that since those two teams were entrenched, and they'll need to do that with KC too. But there's a reality where teams can play each other tough and the fanbases begrudgingly respect what the other is about without it turning into vitriol. Steelers/Ravens is honestly a love/hate sort of thing. Doesn't seem like Chiefs fans respect the Ravens very much, but maybe the Ravens winning this weekend will change that.

Ravens fans realize that the Chiefs typically only lose when they beat themselves. They do realize that right? There's your "hope". Also, nuclear Pat shreds ANY defense. Just look at his record against "number 1" defenses

Rams secondary is pure garbage

Good lord you guys are delusional ROFL

Sure, he may have slightly - but that Rams defense and back end in particular is not the Chiefs. This defense is particularly great at preventing those explosives. Just ask Josh Allen.

Josh Allen is a better QB than Lamar....PERIOD

That’s a take.

I disagree with it. Jackson threw a pick and wasn’t as consistent or accurate.

Yeah… the more I think on it, Stafford was easily better when you consider who they each were going up against too.

It very much only begins with the arrival in Baltimore. Unlike the Irsays who stole the Baltimore Colts' logos, colors, and records when they left in the middle of the night to run away to Indianapolis, Cleveland got to keep its history. The Ravens don't celebrate Jim Brown. There's no connection whatsoever between the Ravens and the old Browns. Cleveland continues to commemorate the old Browns.

The Ravens claim Baltimore Colts history even if the NFL officially recognizes the Colts history as continuous and Indy pretends like its theirs. Johnny Unitas and most of the Baltimore Colts never attended celebrations linked with Indianapolis. An example: Lenny Moore was a RB for the Baltimore Colts and won an MVP and two NFL titles in the 50/60s. He's in the Baltimore Ravens Ring of Honor and was put on the big screen at the Ravens/Texans game this past weekend to pump up the crowd. The Ravens are more Baltimore Colts than they are Cleveland Browns.

I dunno. I'm kinda the other way now

:facepalm:

only on Plantet Chiefs. Shanahan ain't trading Kittle for 34 year old Kelce thus week neither is Campbell and Harbaugh would pass also given that Lamar and Andrews has this uncanny connection. I think your going to be surprised.

I'll take you up on your bet. If Mark Andrews has 1 TD, 5 catches, 2 chain moving catches, OR 50+ yards you change your user name to Lamar is Better Than Mahomes. If he doesnt ill change my user name to Kelce is greater than Andrews.

If you still don't believe in Lamar as a passer or his ability to come back when the team is trailing, watch the end of the Rams game. The whole drive, but especially the touchdown pass and two-point conversion, are as good as it gets from a pure situational passing perspective.

If we play the identical game to Baltimore that we did to Buffalo the final would be 31-9.

The Bills TD's required Allen to make superior, elite, throws that Jackson can't make at all.

None of this changes that he doesn't have a strong arm and on top of that he has a weird release that isn't repeatable when defenses give him issues.

Ravens fans clearly have a low standard for greatness.

Calling Mark Andrews and his connection with Lamar “great”. Hilarious.

“Greatness” isn’t defined in September… it shows up in the playoffs/Super Bowl.

And currently that “special” Lamar/Mark Andrews connection has exactly one playoff win.

That seems like a losing argument unless Lamar wins Super Bowls, right?

- Some teams need a Mahomes to prop up their otherwise okay team.
- Some teams (like the Ravens?) don't need elite QBs because they have a historically great team
- Oh, and Lamar is also in the category of elite, just like Mahomes

I mean, his most impressive playoff win is either the Texans last week or the Titans a few years ago... why are we saying OUR bar is Lamar winning the Super Bowl?

He hasn't even won anything with THIS "historically great team" yet, much less raised the bar of his previous teams well beyond what they would accomplish without him.

I get you guys love the regular season... more so than any fanbase who's stopped by, but HoF careers aren't built on the potential that homer fans see in their quartback, it's built on results.

A regular season game at home vs an okay/not great Rams team is your best example? LMAO

Speaking of that game… your thoughts on the Rams shredding that supposedly great Ravens defense?

He doesn't even have a 500 playoff record...

Baker Mayfield has more playoff wins as a starting QB than Lamar.

That is a pathetically damning indictment of Lamar’s playoff failures.

He’s either Russell Westbrook or he’s going to be Steph Curry.

He might be a guy who puts up stats and highlights in the regular season with a style of play that doesn’t translate to postseason success.

Or

He’s the exception and proves that you can win with his unique style of play. We probably forget the negative opinion of high volume 3-point shooting prior to the Warriors. “Live by the 3, die by the 3.”

Doesn't seem like Chiefs fans respect the Ravens very much, but maybe the Ravens winning this weekend will change that.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's the case, I think Chiefs fans appreciate the physical defenses the Ravens always seem to have, the tough running game that reminds us of the fun Schottenheimer era. I think the "us against the world mentality" stems from the constant stream of gross stupidity from the media and other fanbases that simply refuse to acknowledge the amazing run this franchise is on. SB LIV...it was all about the 49ers defense and how lucky the soft Chiefs were that Garopolo overthrew a "wide open" WR. Then they shat upon PM ("Brady destroyed Mahomes")and the team in SB LV without really acknowledging that three OLs (both Pro Bowl) tackles were missing as well as other circumstances (Britt Reid) certainly didn't work in their favor. Same last year with the Eagles historic D and pass rush, which was out-performed by the Chiefs D when it counted. This year, all you have to look at is the talking heads on ESPN and NFL networks, all crushed that the superior Allen was screwed out of his deserved spotlight by a lousy kicker. I don't expect adoration or bootlicking, just high football IQ if you are going to get paid to be on TV. As far as the fans go, they clearly hate PM mostly due to his success, and that's no shock. An adult will root against a player or team, but should be able to admire their success, much like you may have hated the dynasties of the 70s as a kid (Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders) but admitted they were great and look back upon those names with an odd fondness now.

He's certainly gotten better but he hasn't done much against elite defenses.

Steelers had Lamar in hell, Lamar struggled at home against the Browns and I would say the Titans frustrated the hell out of Lamar too.

Lamar did well in SF bc their overrated QB gave the ball away over and over again in their own territory making it impossible for their defense.

The Chiefs are gonna make it really hard on Lamar. He's gonna have to work for it

Lamar "I don't like playing Patrick Mahomes" Jackson

That quote may end up haunting him.

YOU'RE PROUD THAT LAMAR JACKSON IS A RACIST????!!!!!!!!!

And the funniest part is there have been about ten thousand mentions of this 2nd regular season MVP award while also mentioning "historically great team" and DVOA many times... the latter clearly undermines the award.

They don't NEED a franchise QB (their point, not mine), the historically great team would be fine.... yet, Lamar is the most valuable player in the entire league, because without him the Ravens may have uh, only won 11 games this year? :shrug:

If Baltimore can’t take advantage of their opportunity this year then it will never happen for them with Lamar.

Consider…

They were gifted with Burrow being injured and taking away their primary challenger in the AFC North.

Pittsburgh and Cleveland also dealt with QB injuries in their division as well.

They finally got a full season of Lamar healthy.

All of these sequence of occurrences aren’t likely to happen again.

The pressure on Lamar and the Ravens to not choke this opportunity away is massive on Sunday.

I have this as about the 4th or 5th most difficult opponent we've played under Mahomes in the playoffs, so....

I was just trying to use Duncan's framework for elite/HOF QB --> increased odds of winning a SB. A 2x MVP certainly qualifies as an elite/HOF QB, so that should mean the Ravens have an increased chance of winning a SB.

Separately, you've got the wrong franchise if you're going to act like all Ravens fans know is regular season succes. The Ravens have the second most road playoff wins of all time behind only the Cowboys and Packers who are tied with one more win. That in less than 30 years of existing. This franchise knows postseason success.

And besides, the regular season matters in the NFL. That's what makes it so great. It's not like the MLB or NBA where it hardly makes any difference having an extra home game in a seven-game series. Teams try very hard in the regular season in the NFL. There's no load management. Getting a bye matters. And the Ravens have done that twice in the past five years. That automatically advances them a round.

The relentless narrative here is about the Lamar Jackson era playoff record (all the while ignoring the Ravens playoff record before that, which matters if you're going to talk about "us guys" as a franchise/fanbase). But the fact is that in the three years other than his 21-year-old rookie year when he took over halfway through the season and led the team to the playoffs, Lamar has been in the divisional round each time. This year in the AFC championship game. The regular season success has meant he hasn't needed to play gimme first-round games a couple of times, which you're dinging him for.

Lamar has about a 2 to 3 year window. This is it for them. That style of play doesn't last in this league....plus he's soft.

Hell, the Jimmy Grapes Niners were more intimidating ROFL ROFL ROFL

Of course you do. Everyone wants to be our rival so far none have lasted.

Uh I don't really care about what the Ravens did with Joe Flacco that era no longer exists.

In the Lamar Jackson era the Ravens have generally choked in the playoffs.

It very well could have been he got a favorable matchup against a back 7 that was playing a lot of PS players.

Rams offense is good. Good WRs, RB, QB, and scheme. Stafford was on one that day, throwing long before receivers even broke routes. Rain probably played a factor in slowing down our defense. Actually a pretty similar recipe for Chiefs this Sunday.

TDs 5 Kelce in 17 games to 6 MAndrews I'm 10 games.

So glad you said this.

This morning I thought, how crazy is it that a few years ago all anyone talked about was "Lamar vs. Mahomes" as the big time rivalry.

Feels like a lifetime ago. Since then it's gone back and forth between Burrow and Allen.

There is only one constant.

Welp, that settles it. A blowout it is. No reason to even show up.

Someone should pass this along to Mahomes.

(Never mind, I'm pretty sure Bobby already has......)

Yeah, Baltimore is a very, very good team with lots of weapons and talent. But I view the game against the Bucs in the Super Bowl, the Eagles last year and the 49ers from LIV as just as good, if not superior opponents. All those teams were blowing folks out in the games leading up to the Super Bowl, Baltimore this year is no different.

Absolute nonsense. You brought your staff over from Cleveland. You brought all of your players over from Cleveland except for normal attrition. Ownership remained the same. There was no expansion draft. Your team is the former Cleveland Browns. You did not have to build the franchise up from nothing. The official records may say different, but pretending that you're an expansion franchise that started out like other expansion franchises is total bullshit.

Cleveland certainly found a weakness when they bludgeoned that defense for 178 yards rushing… led by a back-up RB.

Calm down. We have the best rivalry in the NFL with the Steelers. In a division full of rivalries. Would be fun if it happens the way Ravens/Patriots did, but we don't need you as a rival. Go be rivals with the Broncos or whatever the AFC West has to offer as far as rivalries go, big dog.

The Bengals have shown the potential to have staying power, but their franchise QB can't stay healthy, so....... :shrug:

They are just fishing for headlines and trying to find someone is actually Mahomes' rival. The truth is, there is no one who has the combination of football talent and the clutch gene like Mahomes does. The only actual rival Mahomes had who had talent and was clutch was Brady, who he will obviously never play again.

No one nationally cares about the Pittsburgh-Baltimore rivalry.

It hasn’t been relevant since Rapelithsberger became a broke dick/retired.

Obviously? The Ravens are factually not an expansion franchise. You're not saying anything by pointing that out. So if it makes you feel better to highlight that in 1996 the coaching staff and front office at that time that is constantly turned over as is the nature in the NFL relocated from Cleveland to Baltimore, have a ball, buddy.

But you were making it out that the Ravens records don't start when they moved. And they very much do. The Browns' records, colors, logos, and history stayed in Cleveland. There's no connection.