ChiefsPlanet - Poop The "I just got back from the gym" and this is what I have eaten thread.

Muscle growth is highly dependent upon training, and not so much on diet.

Think about it this way:

You put your arm in a cast... the muscle atrophies, no matter how much you eat. You can't train it, so the muscle shrinks.

Of course you can shrink if you're dieting hard and training hard, but only if you aren't giving the body proper nutrients over a longer period of time, not just one or two days. The body functions on a much longer time scale than supplement companies would lead you to believe. An hour, even a day, it's not a problem. The body is pretty good at doing what it needs to. As long as you're giving it stimulus by training, it's very, very difficult to lose muscle. You'd have to keep the protein and calories low for an extended period of time to see any real muscle catabolism.

Mr. Flopnuts

05-11-2010 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsSignRussell (Post 6752471)

where the hell is flopnuts

I started a new job and it's pretty much making me a weekend poster. This is the only thread I'll usually be in during the week.

My job has put me in a position where I'm not eating until 1pm every day. So the trick is not coming home and overdoing it out of some sense of entitlement. Tonight was an 1100 calorie night. Last night was worse.

I'm doing fine at work. Stomach growled less today than yesterday and will growl less tomorrow. I'm going to have to figure out how to come home and not go ****ing crazy.

Luckily though, even going crazy I'm at 1500-1800 a day. I only eat 500 calories up until 6pm.

SenselessChiefsFan

05-11-2010 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6752542)

Of course, with that said, any time you ingest more than 30 grams of protein in a sitting, studies have shown that it spurs muscle growth.

I think that if you are trying to get as strong as possible.... and build as much muscle as possible, you should make sure you take in protein in abundance. And, I think you have to look a little shorter term than you are stating here. Your body will convert protein to energy, and once it is converted and burnt or stored as fat, it no longer is protein. So, I think you have to ensure you have enough protein every day. I even think that making sure you space your protein intake out over the course of a day is important.

Again, that is IF your primary goal is getting bigger and stronger. And, I am not saying you won't get any stronger if you fast or don't focus on protein as much. But, the reality is that there are more and less efficient ways of doing things. I think that fasting while trying to get stronger and bigger is less efficient.

LetsSignRussell

05-11-2010 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6752562)

hang tough. I can imagine what working on an unsatisfied stomach/mind feels like.

Silock

05-11-2010 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 6752593)

And, I think you have to look a little shorter term than you are stating here. Your body will convert protein to energy, and once it is converted and burnt or stored as fat, it no longer is protein. So, I think you have to ensure you have enough protein every day. I even think that making sure you space your protein intake out over the course of a day is important.

Quote:

I think that fasting while trying to get stronger and bigger is less efficient.

It depends on your goals. If you absolutely have to grow RIGHT THE **** NOW, and you need to get super strong RIGHT THE **** NOW, no, fasting forever probably isn't the way to do it. But there's no reason that going into a workout fasted is going to harm you. It's a matter of how you nourish the body afterward that's the important part. As purely anecdotal evidence, I've been able to effectively build muscle while working out in a fasted state. I simply make sure that I afterward, I eat an adequate amount of protein and other calories.

Silock

05-11-2010 11:55 PM

Here's another good one showing how training in a fasted state affects muscle protein synthesis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16051622

Silock

05-11-2010 11:58 PM

In this study, post-workout creatine was more effective than post-workout protein for both strength gains and muscle hypertrophy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11740297

Buck	05-12-2010 03:17 AM

Yesterday I ate around 1400 calories, which is over 800 calories less than my BMR, but I didn't work out at all, I got distracted waking up so late, I was going to go to the gym, but instead I washed the dishes, watched the Padres game, then watched Lost...sorta peeved at myself.

Going to go tomorrow when I wake up though and I want to do 30-45 min of cardio, and I've got to get my calories up to 500 below my BMR, so I dont slow down my metabolism.

If anything I'm saying sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, feel free to step in and tell me. I'm searching for guidance.

Also I dont know a good Carb/Fat/Protein Ratio for a Low Carb Diet. I'm thinking my Fats are too high right now.

Yesterday I ate 13 grams of carbs, 86 grams of fat, and 154 grams of protein.

Maybe I'll look into protein powder.

Hammock Parties

05-12-2010 03:26 AM

Quote:

I've got to get my calories up to 500 below my BMR, so I dont slow down my metabolism.

Faulty reasoning detected!

Silock

05-12-2010 03:33 AM

Buck:

http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/...tion-mode.html

SenselessChiefsFan

05-12-2010 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6752684)

In this study, post-workout creatine was more effective than post-workout protein for both strength gains and muscle hypertrophy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11740297

A little OT with this link. I never doubted Creatine. And, these guys are fasting all day denying themselves protein. They just are supplementing directly after working out.

SenselessChiefsFan

05-12-2010 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6752676)

It's not JUST the protein ingestion that spurs growth. It must be combined with some kind of resistance training.

As for timing of protein, I still don't think it's that important overall. The reason being this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140

24-48 hours is when the body is receptive to protein for muscle growth. That's PLENTY of time.

And the more you train, the less protein turnover you have.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17111010

And finally, when you fast, Growth Hormone levels go up, which leads to a decrease in muscle breakdown.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org.../1/96.abstract

Working out in a fasted state can lead to MORE growth hormone production, which, combined with an adequate amount of protein later, can be really effective at spurring muscle growth.

I'm not disagreeing re:protein being used for energy, but you probably need far less total protein than you think you do. However, you still have to make sure you get enough. That amount varies for everyone.

It depends on your goals. If you absolutely have to grow RIGHT THE **** NOW, and you need to get super strong RIGHT THE **** NOW, no, fasting forever probably isn't the way to do it. But there's no reason that going into a workout fasted is going to harm you. It's a matter of how you nourish the body afterward that's the important part. As purely anecdotal evidence, I've been able to effectively build muscle while working out in a fasted state. I simply make sure that I afterward, I eat an adequate amount of protein and other calories.

I will go back and read these links. I have a very busy morning, but these won't be ignored. I will say, why fast for Growth Hormone when I can inject it?

Oh, and FTR, I don't have anything against Fasting. I don't think it is 'unhealthy'. And, if a person's primary goal is getting lean, then it makes a ton of sense. I just think that it is all based on goals. Perhaps I am archaic in my thinking. You have shown me the error of my ways in the past.

Silock

05-12-2010 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 6752778)

A little OT with this link. I never doubted Creatine. And, these guys are fasting all day denying themselves protein. They just are supplementing directly after working out.

My only point with that link is that there's more going on post-workout than simply needing some protein. A variety of factors influence muscle growth and recovery.

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