Based off the conversation...it was obvious the bet was based on catches plus rushing attempts.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=328

Apparently "offensive touches."

That seals it.

I did.

I put "offensive touches" in quotes and a kick return is an offensive touch. Ill admit that I was about 50/50 on if he picked up on that.

He balked after I brought up th "devil in the details" because I didn't want to play that card after the season was over.

I thought it would be fair for it to be discussed prior to the bet ending.

Its really just a semantics discussion.

A kickoff return is a offensive touch and a punt return is a defensive play...if you dont think that is the case, Dexter needs 23 more "carries or receptions"

I have always viewed the kickoff return as "the first play of the offensive series" because thats exactly what it is.

Soory dude, offensive touches means the offense is on the field not ST.

kick returns should count. he touched the ball with the sole intent of scoring. if that isn't the definition of an offensive play... I dunno wot is.

Yes but ST plays don't count statisticaly as offensive plays.

Your OPINION differs from that of FACTS that were offered by DaKCMans post that directly quotes the NFL rulebook a few posts back.

I am fine with being wrong in my opinion. I had high hopes for DMC but I now have doubts.

I would love for him to kill it now but I dont see it.

Edit: that being said everyone knows the return team is considered the offensive team and the kicking team is the defensive team.

A team's ST return yards do not count towards the teams yards on offense for example.

If only McCluster was running the routes Pope was running against GB. Dudes as slow as a lineman and was wide open 20-30 yards down field.

Wouldn't argue that.

returns are NOT offensive touches

If you did....then you would have said "Offensive touches to include kickoff returns".

technically, yes they are. There is NO QUESTION on this fact. It may not be what most people assume to be the case, but the rules on this are clear.

Now, in the case of the bet, you have to decide #1)what the intent of the bet was AND #2)if you think GoChiefs wouldn't argue the exact same point if he were on the other side of the bet.

#1 is a toss up in my mind... kickoff returns have always been offensive touches in my mind, and that is also the official rule... but I can definitely see how others would disagree. So this one to me is a wash.

#2 there is NO QUESTION in my mind that GoChiefs wouldn't jump on something like this himself... so this seems like a perfect opportunity to show him what it feels like.

Heh, sorry. It's pretty clear who is in the right here.