His biggest issue is he's not a powerless idiot on a message board like the rest of us. He's the most powerful elected official in the county. He has influence here even though he doesn't act like it. Where he's going to to run into an issue is if Kansas politicians take a different approach and say "Clark we want to work with you to address your weaknesses and come up with a plan that works for everyone" instead of "Bring me a plan I like and then I'll support it." He's definitely left the door wide open here.

Listened to all of this. I think I'm more convinced now than ever that the Chiefs are moving. They literally say what I said yesterday...Missouri should focus on the Royals.

mmm you can not want billionaires to get handouts and vote accordingly. I agree with the idea.

But you run the risk of being San Diego. You really showed them! Now to bask in my rightness while the Chargers play in SoFi

The majority of conversation I saw was that no voters still wanted the teams, but not these specific proposals. They seemed to convince themselves this wasn’t realistically a vote to keep the teams, but I believe that is the end result. Hunt especially, wants a new stadium. And I can’t blame him for wanting a new one as opposed to constant renovations to a stadium of which he probably doesn’t like the location. And getting a new stadium ready for the first season they need it doesn’t allow for a lot of playing games on where the stadium will be.

Leave Arrowhead standing and show the game from the Kansas stadium on the big screen. Fans who refuse to go across state line can hang out in there and watch the game with dozens of other fans who refuse to hang out with wine and cheese fans.

Take numbers for George Brett Statue fights

Frankly, I don't know if the Chiefs could have played this any better.

You can say their plan to stay at Arrowhead was half assed, and I was certainly underwhelmed with their updates, but isn't staying in Arrowhead basically what people wanted? The second they say hey were are going to blow this ****er up and build a dome there would have been a ton of debate.

And the underlining problem with either the Chiefs and Royals staying at the Truman Sports complex, is that the County is the property owner and an owner is only going to invest so much on property that he doesn't own. Now Clark isn't going to own the new stadium either, but building something new allows the team to get all the amenities they want and need without having to sink in a healthy chunk of your net worth to get it built.

Extending that 3/8 cent sales tax, a tax that people have been already paying for decades, was a ****ing no brainer if you wanted to lock the Royals and Chiefs into Missouri for decades to come.

Frankly I don't even see a way for Missouri to compete with what Kanas has on the table.

I think at the end of the day the Chiefs stadium team will look similar to what's being done in Nashville where sales tax revenue of the stadium and the surrounding neighborhood all go into servicing the bonds. That's way more aggressive than the puny 3/8 cent that they county is no longer paying. This is just the modern way to how these projects are funded.

https://www.tennesseetitans.com/new-stadium/plan

Not to defend Frank, I think he's an asshole, but he did try to work with both teams, they just were dead set against offering anything close to concrete plans and were pretty-much asking for blind faith. You were here, you saw the last minute shit the teams pulled, it was crap, and it could be argued that it was done to either get a blank check from JACO or take-up the State of Kansas on their willingness to approach these business deals as a state instead of a county. JACO and Frank were doomed from the start because of how MI's legislature is so hands off. It's why the Kansas dude is right, MO's approach to Pro teams is why our teams are easy pickings for neighboring states.

Many were screaming that, but I think the majority of people are ready for a modern day dome.

But yes, the Chiefs played this very well, they were either going to get a blank check from JACO or get the $2B+ stadium in KS. It's all good, it'll be a fun trip to make occasionally.

Teams are not going to spend millions of dollars on detailed stadium plans until they know whether not the revenue is there. Royals wanted to build a cowtown stadium. There was a conception plan on how it would look. What else do you need? This vote was about whether the Royals should build downtown or not. The last minute shit from the Chiefs was like "oh wait, what are you guys doing with the money." It was never about them, but it sure determined a course for the future.

Mike Parson is a longtime STM. Though he's only got 5 more months before he isn't Governor anymore.

BUT IT'S IN KANSAS!

And you know this how?
Maybe frank would have worked through the details if the big questions were solved?
Everyone is so quick to blame Frank but no one has a motive to pin on him, it's mostly just hate for the guy driving a narrative to also reflect poorly on him.

Is it possible neither team nor either league wants the TSC combined contracts anymore so the teams forced a shit show onto the voters so they get what they want?

Alternatively, what is Frank's motivation for being the one to lose the teams? There is zero reason for him to do this other than he knows the teams are full of shit.

The team was only assed enough to provide a couple of drawings for the truckloads of money we were going to dump at their feet and Hoover is like "what more could you possibly of wanted"

This is the community we live and work in but have free reign to do whatever the hell you want anywhere and by the way take our money. I see you made a couple little drawings so obviously I do not have anymore follow up questions!

I don't know anyone outside of CDot that likes him.

You think a college kid will be able to afford tickets? Unless their mommy or daddy is wealthy, the pricing for tickets to a new billion dollar plus stadium in the NFL are going to be well out of a college students budget.

If we build a new stadium, by the time it hosts its first regular season NFL game, nosebleed seats will probably be about $300 face value.

They're named after Roe Bartle.

They go across the State Line, they could possibly change the name if Kansas is going to be their permanent home.

Lot of tradition in KC, but I don't know how much sway that has, if at all, with younger fans.


It all boils down to what will make them the most money.

That said:

If they build it, they will come.

They can't afford those tickets now so does it matter?

None of us really know, all we can do is make educated guesses based on people's words and actions.

The groundwork was laid for that months ago before this was ever a hot button issue. I do think McDowell's done good reporting on this, he's not been afraid to criticize both teams but still lay out what's he's hearing according to his sources from both the teams and government officials. That's why I posted this thread from an article he did a while ago.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=351198

From the beginning the Chiefs went to the county to try and get the tax extended and according to the team, the county was not responsive. And by all accounts, it seems that a lot of people both in government and with the teams have thought that Frank believes the current lease was not a good lease. So we're not even sure if he was truly in favor of extending the 3/8th tax with no changes at all.

Frank has become the face of that for sure, but to be fair he's also not expressed too many opinions other than what the teams are doing is bad. He has every right to do that, but my point was still that putting all the onus on the teams will open the door for other groups who want to be more proactive to come in and say "Here's another option, let's work together" and negotiate something different. Given Sherman's wife's comments on Facebook and the comments other people have made, including McDowell on that podcast, he's not entirely sure the Chiefs want to work with Frank White again, it seems to open the door for another group to come in with a more proactive strategy to try and work with the teams to negotiate a plan. You're seeing it now. Kansas is saying "We want the teams" and Frank White still can't even say "No we want them to stay here."

If I was a college sophomore I'd take the shuttle to the parking lot and tailgate then shuttle back.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Visionary sports architect David Manica shared another <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> Stadium “concept.” Incorporates downtown <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KCMO?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KCMO</a> skyline. Possible location not revealed. But that’s a heckuva “Crownvision” and outfield view! Manica has designed stadiums globally, and a Super Bowl venue in Vegas! <a href="https://t.co/sVQf4QAqY3">pic.twitter.com/sVQf4QAqY3</a></p>&mdash; John Holt (@JohnHoltNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnHoltNews/status/1803615787157966971?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Firm envisions Royals stadium a place where 'Homeruns can be hit out of one state and into another'

Kansas City-based firm MANICA released conceptual renderings

https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/...8-36-32-pm.png
https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/...8-16-47-pm.png

<a href="http://archive.today/TRKti">
<img style="width:300px;height:200px;background-color:white" src="https://archive.ph/TRKti/a84171c75644a062d6cf9a4e07987fee81617e90/scr.png"><br>
Firm releases conceptual renderings for Royals stadium near state line<br>
archived 20 Jun 2024 05:20:15 UTC
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Oof. That sure ain’t the crossroads.

Is this Marnie’s dream location??

Ironically that site in those renderings are owned by the same family that owns the KC Star building.

I still don't see a reasonable motive from Frank, just "nah, I don't like it", and then nothing? Like he is sending back cold soup at a diner? Seems outlandishly petty for such a big deal. There is more to the story.

And you lightly skipped over what Frank has said. The agreement is missing major details like total cost, where the money is coming from, default rules, etc. So Frank can either endorse a plan without major details and potentially be known as the guy that screwed the city into a bad contract that was even worse than P&L in magnitudes, or he can be the guy that lost the teams. If the teams are unwilling to divulge this info, I'm unsure what Frank can really do.
Meanwhile the teams don't have to work with the city on these details because there is going to be a city that won't care about the details and probably give the teams a lot more money.
The teams hold all the power here, either play by their requirements or else.

Kansas politicians got their re-election campaigning in. Now it's Missouri's turn to churn up votes before November. Then we will be brought to gather with the dome across the Missouri River

Thats a great site imo

I think it was a lot more than that or we wouldn't have heard all the discussion about the lack of details, costing, and guarantees. If it was just about them moving downtown I'm pretty sure it would have easily passed.

Let's hope the next Governor isn't so willing to let Pro teams walk to neighboring states.

While he may be correct sometimes, Frank is an arrogant prick who is in his job probably too much based on name recognition from his Royals days. If the teams move I'm pretty sure it will cost him the job he probably should have never had.

interesting. Because my only knowledge of that area is "that scary place that is near Golden Ox and Kemper where zombies walk around all year and they have the haunted houses and never ever go there" but maybe it can be built up.


But I haven't been near there in like 20 years so maybe it's better than I remember? Does that area ever flood?

The next governor NOT closely resembling Barney Fife in effectiveness would be pretty cool.

Wasn't one of the knocks against Kemper was that nobody really wanted to go down there because the location sucked, traffic sucked, nothing to else to do when you went? Other than a "new" stadium, this does not seem like an upgrade over the current location. Just a different bad area that's harder to access.

Maybe there's some kind of low key gentrification already going on there because the location itself seems like it could grow into a new area with a great view of downtown but like that seems like a pretty huge effort.

I also could be mistaken but I think of the west bottoms as smelling like shit. Stockyards and river doesn't scream "pleasant" to me but I'm not sure how accurate that is because I haven't been there since....last century maybe

Chef J's pregame is reason enough alone and the area seems to be slowly coming up so I imagine a stadium in that location seems like what they were talking about early on. Space with the opportunity for entertainment, but then for some reason pivoted to demolishing an existing grassroots entertainment spot in the Crossroads to build. So this makes more sense to me.

Not sure about parking and getting in/out but having just researched parking/stadium experience at Coors field for an upcoming Royals series, it feels kind of similar. They provide like 4300 spaces in 2 lots and the rest seems to be find it nearby and walk. They could run the ****ing streetcar down there but then you run into KS/MO BS but either way this seems somewhat feasible on the surface.

And the risk of being swallowed whole by a pothole on the 12th Street bridge*.

"If the Royals score 10 runs, everyone in attendance gets a free alignment!"




*it's probably been 20 years since driving over that monstrosity, so hopefully they've done something about that by now...

I think they could make the West Bottoms work as long as it means a TON of area improvements (roads and infrastructure), but I still think the East Village would be better in terms of location. Parking would be an issue, but up for anything that drives the demand for light rail from the suburbs into downtown.

There are a lot of new condos there, some good restaurants and a dive, and a great outdoor music venue. Lots of 20 somethings wandering around.

The stench in the area can be a huge problem. I'm wondering how the hell the new bridge event space is going to work out. No one wants to have their wedding next to the sewer treatment plant.

The rail and bus systems in Denver are top notch. Getting from the airport and around town is a public transportation delight and shows how far KC really has to go. It is so great that I would be surprised if the Royals and Chiefs went somewhere that doesn't have it.

Parking a car at Coors is a ****ing nightmare. The city becomes gridlocked with cars, Ubers, street vendors, etc. And then on non game days the surrounding bar areas are dead.

The whole experience in Denver gives a lot of insight into what KC is considering. Any soul or life was replaced by corporate restaurants and bars, but the public transportation makes KC's lightrail look ill conceived or at the very least decades behind.

I'm staying in Rino like a mile from the stadium and am looking forward to the surrounding area

If KC could surround their city stadium with as many quality walkable breweries as Denver I'd consider moving back but everyone has their own personal pros and cons. There's never going to be some giftwrapped perfect location for everyone.

Yeah, East Village would be much better. If it has to be both in Kansas and "downtown" though the West Bottoms plan is just about the only option I can see.

Reminder that Lodo in Denver was a Scooby Doo Ghost Town before Coors field. That has to be the #1 most desirable goal wherever it goes. Words can't express the difference in that area of Denver.

That view is restricted by the bluffs to the east. The rendering is a bit of BS the city is up top you have some views but nothing like what the rendering is showing.

The fields footprint is right on top where the old cattle pins used to be. Gateway computers used to set next to those cattle pins. Some of the worst flooding has occurred in that area and we are due again.

I-670 was there 20 years ago you didn't have to use 12th street viaduct.

RE: West Bottoms, there have been minor improvements there over the last few years, with some breweries going in and new loft buildings going up. My understanding was that its a high priority to rebuild the area but stalled a bit after an initial push.

Earlier this year they announced a $500M plan to redevelop the area:
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...o-west-bottoms

follow your world series game up with a visit to the Edge of Hell#@!@#!

ROFL

"I have not been to this area in 20 years but here are my opinions on it!"

- Every ChiefsPlanet conversation that involves Kansas City

Not as much as you think.

It's helped make so much money that there is no need to pay baseball players or field a winning team. And once they connect Empower to Coors with a walkable neighborhood, there's no stopping the billionaires.

So there's a cautionary tale for the Royals.

It's been a wild success, and that's not debatable. There are case studies about it in economic development journals. The combination of LoDo, Ballpark, and RiNo have made for the best area for nightlife and restaurants in the state.

That sounds pretty good.

West Bottoms has to be in a flood zone. More than likely it wouldn't flood but you never know.

Feels like you can do better.


I just think some hero from Missouri needs to emerge that ends with a downtown stadium in the perfect location.

If anyone has been to petco park in San Diego that's the dream



https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/l...JE4l_meeIK3HBQ

I remember 1993. The whole area was underwater.

1993 was ****ed. The entire midwest was under water.

I was just down there last week. Walked all around. I suppose you could see the skyline as the stadium would be built up quite a bit. But the area itself is not as good as the East village

As I recall dad telling it, a favorite haunt of granddad’s was down in the Bottoms - Joe’s Flood Room. That name wasn’t just drawn out of a hat.

Kansas will just take out another STAR bond for the flood insurance.

This. Everything about Petco is perfect.

Looks like a beautiful park. Have you been to Pittsburgh stadium? That looks beautiful too

PNC Park is the best in the majors. Unfortunately, the Pirates are run by Mark Davis' cheap cousin.

Just the football stadium which is next to it. They’re both incredible and you can walk to them from downtown across a bridge which makes the entire experience really special.

That was probably a once in a lifetime thing. What was it, 2018 it poured for what seemed like a month straight and didn't get near 93?

I'm still hoping for east village as well. I don't care about having the 13th best skyline view in sports.
Let's stop looking at other stadiums as what the royals stadium should be, instead it should be the best KCMO stadium it can be.. bbq, negro leagues, municipal stadium, jazz, many fountains inside and out, Blvd beer, etc.

PNC is phenomenal. We saw two Royals games there in 2021, and as Twisted stated, loved simply walking across the Roberto Clemente Bridge from our hotel to the ballpark. Pittsburgh in general was a pleasant surprise, surpassing our expectations and proving to be a charming city. Of all the dozens of ballparks I've visited, PNC makes the shortlist with the likes of Fenway, Wrigley, and Oracle (San Francisco, renamed a few times).

I have yet to see Petco in San Diego, nor Camden Yards in Baltimore but definitely have them at the top of the need-to-visit list. There is something about a great baseball stadium that most other sports can't recreate. The only non-baseball venue that I have attended, and does have comparable mystique is Allen Fieldhouse.

At the time, it was called “the hundred year flood”. Literally nothing like it for a hundred years. It just wouldn’t stop raining all Spring and Summer. Some days super heavy rain, other days, just a light rain. It was like midday Florida every day, and the whole region got swept away. The Mississippi flooded, the Missouri, the Kansas…. It was so hard to mow the yard that year. The ground was so saturated. I remember mowing in the rain certain days just to keep up so the grass wouldn’t get too out of control.

Our basement finally couldn’t take it. Literal seepage through the cement and concrete just slowly seeping through the walls. Had to get little water pumps and run em 24/7. It was nuts, and nothing like the people who had houses and farms get washed away.

At any rate, I like the look of this design more than others I’ve seen, but it still needs work, and it’s a kitschy, fun idea for a homer to cross state lines. At least this guy is coming up with interesting, fun ideas. I think we can all agree is the worst thing to happen, would be to get a bright, shiny new ballpark that turns into Busch Stadium 3.

A new ballpark doesn’t have to be in the perfect part of the city, and that’s a helluva subjective thing for the people who live in KC and all the rest of us that just wanna see this thing get figured out. But that new ballpark better make us sorta feel “special” the way Kauffman has for the past 50+ years. The scoreboard crown off the interstate and fountains are iconic. In one glance, everyone knows where the game is: KC.

I visited KC a few weeks ago… walked around the P&L, down Grand, went to the Green Lady Lounge past the strip club. Frankly, I don’t get it. There’s nothing there. What am I missing? I see very little businesses getting disrupted or pushed out through progress or imminent domain. Seems like a fine place to plop a ballpark in and watch the existing businesses flourish on 81 game days, and perhaps encourage some other business on Grand beyond a Sinclair gas station?

Walked around the East Village part too. This could be terrific too, for different reasons.

I guess I just don’t understand. But I also lived in NYC when the whole town couldn’t get their thumb out of their collective asses and decided to rebuild Giants/Jets Stadium while Hudson Yards was available or the Brooklyn Yards.
And now NYC has a shitload of jagoff artsy fartsy crap and condos blowing up in the Hudson Yards while the New Jersey Nets turned into the Brooklyn Nets with a Whaddya know, brand new Barclays Center. 70 years ago, that should’ve been the landing place of the Brooklyn Dodgers had Robert Moses and local jagoff NYC politics not gone sideways.

The Coors Field and Petco Park examples are the hope of what could be done. They nailed it, and PNC is another, though I think that’s a bit different. Maybe the Royals could go downtown KCMO while the Chiefs go to Clay County and create their district there?

I think Kansas getting involved is a very good thing. It only lends leverage to both clubs getting what they want, but if you’re a sad sack taxpayer who hates those goddamn billionaires, then you’ll never be happy with any outcome unless it is all private pocket, and you’ll still bitch because there is no perfect outcome for everyone to be happy.

I just wanna see both teams stay in KC until the end of my days and I’m pretty sure I’ll figure out how to manage.

I don't have to drive over that bridge everyday to know it ruins lives, tyvm.

I used to party down in LoDo in the late eighties early nineties.

:)

Here's an aerial view of LoDo in the 80s. The circle is Union Station and the square is where Coors field ended up.

https://i.imgur.com/4ftecsA.jpeg

And here's one from the 2010s.

https://i.imgur.com/Wpj8IIz.jpeg

East Village still makes the most sense. I don’t know that you can street car and bus and walk and blah blah blah enough to offset the ingress/egress issues that spot in the west bottoms would have. You’re boxed in by bluffs and a river with 670 as your only real heavy traffic route

A ferry service from some sort of parking lot would actually be pretty cool I’d think.

Was it ever disclosed or speculated why they moved off of the East Village location?

Seemed like the no brainer site from the beginning

The douchebag polticos wanted Crossroads.

Yup. I’m sure Mayor Queer and the Jackson county legislature comprised of a bunch of useless ****s wanted a crown jewel for the city and thought they had the leverage to push it through

I like that idea quite a bit. I guess I forget you have access from Chavez Blvd on the lower west side as well. Gonna be a party bridge up river as well. It’s not an impossible concept just much more difficult than east village in many ways

Coors does this. 25 blocks of parking serviced by constantly running free shuttles. You never wait more than 5-10 mins.

Just not ferries.

Probably not as quick and efficient as a high quality shuttle service like the Rockies as described, but the good thing is it could basically be implemented day 1 without a huge additional infrastructure project. Of course goes without saying I have no idea if there’s even a good place for a lot that people could access easily.

Yup. Petco is a great set up, but not many downtowns are like San Diago. I mean you have all that convention center parking, Gaslamp district, train service, ah and the weather is always ****ing perfect.

How that city doesn't have an NFL team is frustrating as hell. I love a good weekend in Vegas, but traveling to SD is always money in my opinion.

Fescoe said on his show that was all Mayor Q. Frank White is getting dragged pretty hard these days but Lucas may have ****ed up even worse.

Just a total facepalm if true

I know there were the whole "but billionaires!" no voters out there but the East Village location would've been a closer vote

So you have Arrowhead and both teams now hanging in the balance over switching from an ideal location to a universally hated one