Patteeu, this is why the two of us can't have a constructive dialogue about this issue. Black students say they feel unwelcome on campus, through treatment from the school and from slurs said at them by fellow students. Some white persons say back to them that they have a victim complex (as if it's their fault they are recipients of bigoted slurs & racist treatment, or as if those things are not happening in the first place). It's not in me to side with the persons who are telling students that they are making it up.

Like, I'm a teacher. I care about my students, and because of this I listen to them. I taught (as a grad student) at a large state school for 5 years and heard many, many painful personal stories of racial mistreatment from my students. The grad student council would try to put forward suggestions to meet the concerns of our students; sometimes those gained traction & sometimes we were shrugged off. But we listened to our students and we tried to work within the system to help them. A few UA students just released a video as part of a class project the other day. Their stories are very common, and speak to experiences that black students have at, I'd safely guess, the majority of big college campuses:
<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/145380616" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
As a teacher at my current college, I teach mostly students of color. I listen to them. The campus environment is a bit different because of the racial demographics and the size of the school, but my students know they can count on me to try and fix problems, should they occur. Because I listen. It's not in me to NOT listen, which is what your position requires. It requires a literal willful ignorance of what students are saying they experience. I can't do that.

DJ, again nothing started out as a protest. Dictating terms came late in the process.

That's like admitting that you never went to church on Easter when you were a kid.

Listening isn't really the issue. You seem to lack any level of critical skepticsm. Unconditional love and approval has it's place. It's great when you know your mom will have your back no matter what heinous crime you've been charged with, for example. You think you're a teacher, but it sounds like you're really a great mom.

Even great moms, though, do their kids a disservice when they reinforce the idea that every boo boo is a major wound.

No one likes rude behavior, but almost everyone is exposed to it to one degree or another and you can't wipe it out. Even if we accept the "litany" (your word, your exaggeration) of allegations as facts, they don't seem to add up to anything more than low-frequency, spontaneous, rude behavior. That's not OK, but it's also not any worse for these students than the equally not OK spontaneous, rude behavior faced by many women, gays, foreigners, mormons, greeks, nerds, uglies, fatties, townies, white guys, jews, and almost everyone else.

The reason we can't have a useful dialog isn't because I won't listen. It's not even because you listen uncritically. It's because you want a different result than I do.

Haha. Ha.

But your last paragraph is true, yes.

Now that I think about it, there was that 7th grade dance where all the guys tried to dress like we were on Miami Vice. Those pants were white.

Clay Travis: the "poopsticka" might actually be a slur against Nazis. Since it's taking their symbol and making poop out of it.

This is one of those 'weak arguments hurt your strong ones' moments.

C'mon - I'm pretty sure people that sketch in excrement don't have much in the way of heightened social awareness.

This probably is something of an idiot skinhead that was making poo doodles. I ask again, just exactly how the hell does this have anything to do with institutional racism?

Because it's racism. At an institution. Therefore change the system.

Travis was obviously laughing when he posted this satire. Highly doubt he's making any "argument" at all.

I understand the frustration of students affected if the University took little to no action on their claims over the course of two years, I do. But for them to go as far as to say allege that Mizzou fostered such a racist environment is quite frankly dishonest, imo.

Early when this broke out, there were those in this very thread saying how they had heard nothing of any of this, nor saw anything relating to what was being alleged. Hardly sounds like an institution that openly gives no ****s to how minorities are being treated on their campus.

DISCLAIMER - That is not to say racism isn't alive and well on the campus. Show me one campus large or small in this country that doesn't have their fair share of dumb****s that throw the N bomb out arbitrarily because they are nothing more than a bunch of dumb****s.

#NationalOffendACollegeStudentDay

https://twitter.com/hashtag/National...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

So which CS1950 kid did it?

Oh, and I though liberals thought think like pissing on the crucifix and other such stuff was art. Did anybody think to ask if there were any art majors on the floor?

And freshmen really need to explorer their options too.

I wonder if claiming they're "afraid" might eliminate any need to sit-out a year if they transfer to a real school with an adult coach.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Wiat for it, WAIT for it..... "What other choice did they have?"



Well they had/have a lot of choices, but this is funny...

I do adore how excited everyone is to see Harold Brantley. That was cute.

Interim President Mike Middleton:

"Okay! We put a hyper-liberal minority in charge, are you happy now?"

Yeah...never saw that one coming.

As long as it isn't a "Safe Space" violating Asian...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A8UTj8lQJhY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ROFL - LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The execution performed by the Concerned Student 1950 Crowd summed up in 1 GIF:

https://media.giphy.com/media/H6MxVAi7wu15m/giphy.gif

Part of the deal with discussions of racism is that people use the term to mean different things. Precisely, I'm differentiating between two major definitions. There's an older definition of racism as the belief that a race of people is superior to another race of people because of certain characteristics or etc. In this sense, the lady in this video is correct. Black Americans can hold those prejudices.

Other people use the definition of racism that has evolved over the last half century to mean that which creates, upholds, or reinforces a power system that seeks to unequally distribute rights, resources, and privileges among racial groups. (Increasingly, too, scholarship is coming to agree that race itself is a socially constructed category, meaning the concept of racism came before/created the concept of race rather than racism being some unavoidable byproduct of having different races live together). Importantly, this definition doesn't erase the concepts of prejudice or bigotry.

So if someone barges into a discussion saying "[insert non-white ethnic group here] can be racist too, not just white people!" Well, depending on which definition of racism the discussion group holds to, that comment is going to be met with derision or some "yeah, duh"s.

I mean, you know how to embed a gif, so you're clearly intelligent enough to grasp the concept of the suffix "-ism" referring to systems or structures of power. (if what you're confused about is my parenthetical about racism creating race, well, that is admittedly less easy to grasp. But I could explain that too)

Since these tensions are happening on college campuses, it's relevant to realize how the word racism is used ON college campuses. And has been for decades.

Just, all of it:clap:

What I meant to say is, just all of it sounds like a load of crap. But hey, I'm OBVIOUSLY not an "intellectual" like you, so........

Hey, you and me? We're just simple folk that don't know what it's like to suffer the oppression of attending an upper tier school like MU.

That's fine if you feel that way. I'm not any more intelligent than you are; I've just been in that kind of academic environment recently. I pointed it out to lend context to the video pete posted. That group wasn't like "oh, you need to go" to the Asian student because they don't think black persons are capable of racial prejudice. They were like "oh, you need to go" to the Asian student because they think "no, black people can't be racist 'too' because black people don't control the power systems creating racial inequalities." Really and truly, that was the reaction in that video. And I'm not sure that everyone realizes how scholars, students, and politicians (admittedly, most often politicians on the left) use the word racism in contrast to how they may have learned the word in school.

All I am saying is, when I was in pre-school we learned this catchy little tune that went:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me


Today we are coddling college level kids with "safe spaces" free from "microagressions"

bunch of bullshit

The thing is though that words DO hurt, and it's arguably worse to collectively pretend that they don't.

And the thing about safe spaces that people ought to realize is that no one lives in a safe space. It's basically about having a therapeutic place -- a regular meeting, say -- where you can share your feelings with people who have similar experiences as you. Outside of a "safe space," people get mocked or belittled for sharing those feelings. People get confronted with "you're lying" or "that didn't happen" or "I don't believe you" or etc etc. by people who lack empathy or sympathy for those experiences. And to some degree that's fine. These students are in college after all, and they should expect their academic or political ideas to be questioned. But for certain disadvantaged groups (often we're talking about ethnic groups or LGBTQIA+ groups) they get A LOT more scrutiny than others, to the point of bullying and erasure. The idea of a safe space is to have a place where they can share without the constant challenging they get outside of the safe space. BY NO MEANS is an entire campus supposed to be a safe space; that's a misunderstanding of the concept.

"Microaggressions" shouldn't be a controversial term either. There's certain ways people get treated that aren't super confrontational but still serve to put down others, to treat them as lesser-than. Misgendering a person you know to be trans, for example. Or people walking across the street, clutching their purse, when a black person gets near. Or campus security letting white students walk into a building without checking ID but suddenly needing the young latina to produce a campus ID. These things aren't often blatantly hateful, but they wear on the people who experience them. I'd be surprised if anyone here doubts that these little prejudices happen in day to day life. Microaggressions is simply the word that's been decided upon to categorize these behaviors.

People are free to think that students these days are mentally weaker than in past generations because of their desire for these kinds of spaces and terms. I do think there's something to your guys' refrain that seeing oneself in constant victimhood can hold one back from the opportunities that ARE present. But I also think the same people suggesting that aren't being empathetic enough to the minority experience. It's simply emotionally harder to endure small daily prejudices than a lot of white Americans give it credit for. Ask your wives sometime about catcalling, and how much that wears down on them as women -- that's a thing that men can't fully understand too, because it simply doesn't happen to them. Similar thing.

What are you, 5?

I bet he didn't go to sleep during Royals playoff games. That's something a child would do.

I was 5 once. I grew past that time in my life.

I want to say too that I don't have a drive or a need to continue the academics & politics posting in this thread (I know there's a DC thread on the subject but I'm just assuming its an entire cesspool contained in a garbage can which was itself dumped into a second cesspool). I can stop anytime.

After all, Harold Brantley's back in uniform! Kentrell Brothers is going to rack up 17 tackles against BYU!

But I do want people to understand the concepts & students they are criticizing. That lack of understanding isn't always people's fault either, just a lack of exposure to the ideas. That's what's ticked me off a lot in this thread all along: the attacking concepts without first understanding. Understand how people are using these new-to-you terms, and THEN, if you must, talk about why the concepts are flawed.

I can appreciate this post, it's very thoughtful. But I must say that in today's society the "ACLU culture" and the "you can't just lock them up culture" has made it nearly impossible to deal with bullies. It's difficult to get rid of these things/assholes when "the system" ensures they know there won't be many repercussions.

Absolutely pathetic

Professor Lambert again:

http://truthonthemarket.com/2015/11/12/my-office-door/

At this point I'm convinced he's the only person left on campus with a lick of common sense.

If more educators treated their students like adults as opposed to very large kindergarteners (i.e. the Reaper method), perhaps Universities would be useful again.

It is a COMPLETE load of crap. The sad part is he's reinforcing this in helping mold a generation of psychos.

OK ... REAL question ... BYU -4 Solid ??

I'm not understanding Lambert's connection between that MUPD email (which I hope was limited to the climate of the protests, because yeah, that's a bit much for the police to be the first response to a slur incident) and the self-congratulating email from Purdue's president. One is an email from campus police & one is an email from a school president. Besides, Lambert doesn't mention that for all the pats on the back that Purdue was giving itself in that email, Purdue has, according to recent FBI statistics, the 2nd most hate crimes of any university in the United States.

Pfft. You're a dumbass, pete. You belong on facebook.

I don't know man, mizZOO seems way pumped-up to stop people from laughing at them!

So racism will always exist because, when one form is eradicated or weakened, it will be redefined. And you're okay with teaching this?

Yes, going to sleep would be. I didn't go to sleep. Sorry.

Sorry, Brock. I didn't mean to violate your safe space, brah. Don't go hunger striking or anything.

I don't agree that that's happening. There are ways in which America has made progress with racism and ways in which it hasn't. Neither definition of racism is jeopardized by the progresses that have been made. Neither construction of racism has been weakened to the point that any damn person in America should feel comfortable with "how far we've come."

And no damn person in American should be ignorant, belittle or otherwise dismiss how far we have come.

You realize campus police operates at the direction of the University, yes?

How do you not see the relationship between one University emphasizing that they will be a marketplace of ideas and encouraging the free exchange of idea and another saying that you should report 'hurtful' speech? How is it not made even more apparent by the fact that Purdue flat out called out Mizzou and MU's response?

You simply operate in a world of sandbox equality. You treat these people like they're children. If something is 'hurtful' it is per se bad and that whatever means are taken to avoid someone being offended, they're justified (well, presuming said offended person is of a 'marginalized' group, of course).

And your spiel once again assumes that anyone that doesn't by into this new age nonsense is simply ignorant of it rather than simply dismissive of it. That's ivory tower elitism at its finest - if you don't agree with me, you're simply not intelligent or informed enough to understand why you're wrong.

Chiefscountry,

It's my recollection that we spoke some time ago regarding some research you had done on different generations, their outlook and their 'place' in the world. My recollection is that you theorized that Gen X was something of a forgotten generation that was likely to be stepped over by Gen Y due to Gen Y having a pretty strong sense of self-sufficiency, intellectual curiosity and drive.

Well it would seem to me that this is the first batch of children from Gen X that we're dealing with now, yes? Do you think Gen X largely has been stepped over by Gen Y and that perhaps that marginalization has led to feelings of resentment that have been handed down to their children?

I only ask this because I have a 1 yr old and I can tell you this - there is no way on this earth or any other that I'm going to coddle her to the extent this present group has been coddled. To some degree I think that's how I was raised but I also think it's a reaction to frustrations I've had watching how people have handled children for the last 15 years. The participation medal generation has grown up and man are they every bit the whiny, entitled little shitheels I was worried they'd be.

So I'd say you're probably the best informed of us on subjects like this. When I look at the current crop of college kids, I'm shockingly secure in my place in the world (because there's no way this pack of pampered toddlers is knocking me off a perch), but at the same time I'd like someone to keep the country on the rails during my retirement years. Could this be another cycle like Gen X and Gen Y where the current crop (largely children of Gen X) is stepped over by the next wave (Children of Gen Y)?

The idea of generations cycling and how their worldview depends on which generation spawned them is fascinating as hell to me.

Well, I said in the post you quoted that I thought a general policy of police being first responders verbal abuse is a bit much, but whatever.

Lost recruit:
https://www.seccountry.com/missouri/...-amid-protests

I'm a life long Mizzou fan, but I hope the football program tanks until Stinkel is gone. Dude mixed sports and politics in college. It's embarrassing.

Martin doesn't realize that things will be just as bad at all of those schools in his top 5 in terms of racism & marginalization (well, LSU less so; they have a double digit percentage of African-American students). You don't "go back in time" anywhere in America.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Don&#39;t know why but Pinkel&#39;s Tuesday interview on WHB resurfacing on Twitter. Protest supporters suddenly enraged at Missouri coach</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/665254108249460736">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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LMAO
Give me a few minutes to put up my "shocked" face....
OOFC

Enraged at him for what?

Y'know that old saying - when somebody's an asshole, they're probably an asshole. When everyone's an asshole, you're probably the asshole?

I'd imagine when it gets down to it, you'd probably claim that every major state University in the country has a race problem.

Maybe, just maybe, on a campus with 30,000 people you're going to find some people that say 'hurtful things' to each other. And maybe, just maybe, that's not evidence of anything the University has done wrong.

Oh, but that's right - if there are a lot of black people in a given population, clearly that means that there's less racism there. Y'know, like Mississippi, Georgia and (surprise) Louisiana. Nah...no race issues there because a full 1/3 of the population in those states are black. If having a higher percentage of black students makes LSU less racist than its counterparts, clearly those are also the least racist states in the union.

Dumb broads like this one..

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You support your black players but you don&#39;t support the cause?! That&#39;s not support <a href="https://twitter.com/GaryPinkel">@GaryPinkel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ConcernedStudent1950?src=hash">#ConcernedStudent1950</a></p>&mdash; Johnetta Elzie (@Nettaaaaaaaa) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nettaaaaaaaa/status/665253615225987072">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Gee, what are the odds?

Wait, you're not forced into where you go to college?

JFC

What are the odds that she was one of the black students that kicked out the white students standing with them so she could have her "healing space"?

Not YET

Hey, remember when I said they'd go from those who opposed them to the insufficiently enthusiastic?

How so?

If he doesn't side with his players, no recruit would want to go to Mizzou.

Revolutionaries always eat their own when victory is in hand.

This was bigger than football. Pinkel allowed his football team to be used as a pawn by a misguided movement to remove the president of the university. The bigger harm is going to be the lost revenue and booster pullout. He is going to lose his job over this, and he should.

It's been a while since I did that. That was in college for a paper, it was looking at the different generations in terms of how to manage them in the business world but damn it was some interesting stuff. Gen Y really hadn't sunk in to the business world completely at that time either. I typically view the Class of 2000 (graduating HS year) as the start of Gen Y.

But what you are saying is probably true. Gen X getting passed over is just really a numbers game. Boomers were a huge generation, Gen X pretty small, Gen Y huge, following the trends of course the Gen X kids will be smaller as well. Which I never really thought about it but yeah the current crop of college kids are the Gen X's kids or the start of them. The mid 90s births.

Look at the current political situation, we might see 1 maybe 2 Gen X presidents. Gen Y will move in pretty soon and quickly in that arena. Same thing down the road when we as Gen Yers will be the Boomers age. The current college kid era will be a small one before our kids take over.

It's an interesting case study. Wish more time was spent on instead of 50 Shades of Grey research.

I would guess that the majority of universities in the U.S. have, at least, an inclusion problem. Yeah.

This is on me for not being clear, but LSU having fewer problems with inclusion -- after all, 11 percent African-American students is a sizable increase from, say, Mizzou's 7 percent -- doesn't mean the campus doesn't have issues with racism, diversity, & inclusion. Contained within the grammar of my sentence and the quotes being responded to, I was placing Mizzou, Oklahoma, Utah, and TCU on roughly equal footing with problems of inclusion, with the other school Martin is looking at, LSU, having less of a problem. But he'll run into problems there too.

I hope the dumb twitter rumors about Pinkel resigning on Sunday are just dumb twitter rumors.

St. Louis Post Dispatch -

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources confirm that Gary Pinkel will announce his resignation. Story coming.</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/665275077844295681">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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You gotta be joking?

Weeeeeeell, that's not good. Few people are going to believe the "health reasons" story, unless there's some kind of specific diagnosis. The timing is too close to the campus turmoil.

Wait...you mean giving in to the whims of a mob in the name of political correctness has yielded widespread negative repercussions?

You're shitting me.

Sort of -

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Correction: Pinkel retiring not resigning</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/665276499025498112">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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This is a bummer. I wonder if we'll ever get some reporting on what behind-the-scenes discussions have been going on. I mean, people are going to speculate all over the place: did wealthy boosters want Pinkel gone for supporting the players during the boycott? Did the school get pressure to encourage Pinkel to retire because of how he played politics, backtracking on knowledge of campus issues, during the 810 WHB interview?

I hope it IS because of health reasons, and I hope Pinkel is able to recuperate from them and enjoy retirement. But this is a strange, sudden, sad end to a fantastic coaching era.

So, it appears the Reign of Terror has just begun at Mizzou. When do they start erecting the guillotines?

This is like the WORST year to find a new head coach, too. Mizzou is hiring from within, right?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In May, Pinkel was diagnosed with lymphoma</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/665277109921673217">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Oh.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pinkel will remain as Missouri&#39;s head coach through Dec. 31 or until a new head coach is hired</p>&mdash; Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/665276988391686145">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Cancer. Shit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gary Pinkel has lymphoma. Here&#39;s part of the statement on his resignation. Transformative figure at Mizzou. <a href="https://t.co/LQtn8POBaf">pic.twitter.com/LQtn8POBaf</a></p>&mdash; Sam Mellinger (@mellinger) <a href="https://twitter.com/mellinger/status/665277471495864320">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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