So far in this series, Cubs pitching has handed out 22 free bases and there's still one game to go.

Might be time to throw out the book on nibbling, Hickey.

That was a good win. Nice to beat the Cubs in a close game, one we came from behind to win. At Wrigley. That’s a rarity the last few years.

Seeing a little different managing from Shildt. Bringing in Hicks early. Seems like a no brainer to bring your best pitcher in with the bases loaded and the heart of the lineup coming up to hit but that never happened with Matheny. Meathead brings in some scrub because it’s the 6th inning and the game is over.

There's one thing you're missing here: he brought Holland in to a one-run game and left him in for multiple batters despite him going full Holland.

Holland needs to be summarily executed at the team hotel tonight. It's been 100 games at this point. His K/9 is 7.92, which incidentally is also his BB/9. There are 428 pitchers that have thrown more than 20 innings. His xFIP is 422/428. One of the six that is worse is Brett Cecil. The Cardinals are literally paying two pitchers who are in the first percentile of performance over 20 million dollars. How in the **** is that even possible?

I got to watch the end in a bar full of Cub fans. That was nice. :)

Matheny burning up bullpen relievers arms so consistently that we have to way over pay and take gambles just to fill the pen?

I almost made a Bowman needs to be summarily executed post the other day, but i thought it would be in poor taste.

You both are right. I stepped away for a minute and come back to find Holland in a jam and I was like WTFffffffffff! The days of hoping he gets his act together enough to be serviceable either here or as a chip for another team are over. Cut his ass right now! This bullpen can’t afford anymore “kerosene on a fire” arms.

That said I was thinking why isn’t Hicks in and then he brought him in, it was just two batters too late. I will cut Shildt a little slack since it was the 4th game of a 5 game series and he can’t run everyone in the ground. He doesn’t pick who Mo stocks the pen with, but hopefully from now on he keeps Holland on a short lease in meaningless innings as long as we are burdened with his stench on our roster.

My Pirates are above .500 again. Starting to believe again.

They are as screwed as your Faid

It’s the salsa

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;Adam Wainwright planted me a garden in my backyard in St. Louis ... and I&#39;m big into salsa, and I&#39;ve just been making it. I just happened to bring it on the road trip, and it&#39;s going pretty well.&quot; -- Carpenter on Matt&#39;s Secret Salsa.<br><br>��: <a href="https://t.co/cuHD5BZmoS">https://t.co/cuHD5BZmoS</a> <a href="https://t.co/pZ0fruDwCY">pic.twitter.com/pZ0fruDwCY</a></p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1021049750525743109?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Matt’s Secret Salsa Update: <a href="https://twitter.com/MattCarp13?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MattCarp13</a> once again enjoyed some salsa with his breakfast, and he even shared some with <a href="https://twitter.com/DexterFowler?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DexterFowler</a>! 🔥 <a href="https://t.co/z52pXatzBh">pic.twitter.com/z52pXatzBh</a></p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1021061870055297024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Let a man dream. :cuss:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> will have Daniel Poncedeleon start on Monday and Austin Gomber start Tuesday vs. Reds. It&#39;ll be the first MLB starts for both pitchers.</p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/1021074795507716096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can they celebrate by sacrificing a live Holland?

What is up with this team and Hudson? Everyone knows Hudson is way better pitcher and more upside than both those guys. Looks ready for the big show or at least one of these spot starts. Why are the Cardinals holding him back?

They don’t want to start the service time clock ticking?

40 man roster? WTF? There is so many players on that list that there is no way in hell a team takes them in a rule 5 draft. Are they wanting to save someone from being exposed to the rule 5 draft?

Hudson legit can't miss bats. It's a problem. His HR/FB rate is completely unsustainable even if he has a good sinker. He's probably a fringe #4-#5 starter in the big leagues. Doubt he's much of an improvement over Gant.

Wtf did i just watch

you guys went that high as me on Flaherty either. Hopefully, I’m right in this case too. :rolleyes:

Ron Darling saying that Shildt is the most impressive manager he has ever spoken with?

Big difference being that Flaherty has had that swing and miss slider for a while and it was evident in the minors.

Hudson doesn’t have that.

Lol that 4 outfielders bunt thing

I believe he used a qualifier “new” manager.

He has had a good year, but so has Poncedeleon. Gomber is a guy who we really need to be successful imo. He is our best hope at a decent lefty starter.

3 weeks since Ozuma has had an extra base hit. Why does he keep batting fourth? Move him back into that slot when he starts slugging again.

Is Gyorko hurt or getting traded?

Has he played a game since the AS break?

He's sick.

Speaking of Gyorko.

You have to question Shildt's faith in your bullpen. Mikolas had 74 pitches and you pull him after 5 innings with 2 outs in the top of the 6th to pinch hit.

I thought Munoz was dog shit defensively, worse than Jose Martinez at 1B?

The leash was too short, but Matheny would constantly leave pitchers in to hit only to pull them after one batter.

Drop Ozuna in the lineup. Guy is a fraud. Gonna be tied with the Pirates after today. I like Freese better than 90 percent of these turds anyways.

Cecil is a worthless piece of shit

Mozeliak needs to be shown the door as well. Fowler, Holland, Cecil, Ozuna. That's over $40 million tied up in four guys that are giving you a combined -1.1 WAR, not to mention the prospects that Ozuna cost. It's damn near impossible to be that inept.

Molina with the mercy shoe tie move to get the bullpen a few more pitches to get warm.

Can Waino play the outfield. He’s washed up as a pitcher but he could definitely hit better than Fowler.

There's no reasonable excuse for the Cardinals not to be sellers other than "Cardinal's Way."

Chances are remote any player the Cardinals could trade for isn't good enough to catch up with the division. About to fall to 4th place in the division. And there's like 5 or 6 teams to leap frog to earn a WC spot.

Not a chance in hell that Dewitt gets rid of Mo too. Not going to happen.

I think the whole bullpen thing is partly if not mostly on Matheny. It was Matheny that burned out relievers arms, ruined careers. This was widely known in baseball. Any reliever they could get to come here, Mo had to overpay to make it happen. Relievers and their agents knew this was their last stop before their arm was ruined. this is their last contract ever. Mo had to to overpay and take gambles because of the managers incompetentance.

I blame Matheny for a lot. But bums like Cecil and Holland are on Mo.

everything I’ve read and heard on podcasts says it was Matheny that insisted Holland be signed. He wanted a 9th inning closer.

When the deal was announced most people in baseball thought it was a helluva deal because it was a one year deal. Who thought Holland would be so horrible? I don’t remember any articles like that at the signing time.

I don't think anyone here has argued too much for the Cardinals to be sellers. I despise losing to the Cubs, but it's probably in the best interest in the short and long-term of the club for them to bomb out hard and strip it down.

They need to trade Carpenter while he's white hot and burn the rest of it down.

Neither Cecil nor Holland were ruined by Matheny. They ****ing sucked from Day 1, just like Cub Dexter. He's made a ton of bad moves and deserves to lose his job for doing so.

You could probably have your pick of anyone from the Yankees prospect pool for Carpenter. Sheffield might be the only questionable one since the Yankees are needing pitching more than a bat.

Rockies or Mariners might be players, but Brendan Rodgers probably doesn't happen and the Mariners have one of the worst farm systems in the league.

Trade Carp now. He would be at the top of every contenders list that is looking for a bat. We can get a top prospect for him. The team needs to move on.

Maybe Carp and Mikolas to the Yankees gets you Torres+

Trade your found money for whatever you can get in JMartinez and Mikolas

This off season unless he turns it around I’d hold on to Ozuna and hope he turns it around next year. Just don’t see how we can get enough to warrant a trade.

No need for a tear down and suck on purpose approach like the Astros and Cubs did. Listen to all offers in the off season for everyone but Reyes and Flaherty.

Torres isn't getting traded.

The guy is 21 with a .905 OPS playing a position where they have .500 OPS hitters filling in while hes on the DL.

Agree.

Dream on. LOL

im not arguing he doesn’t deserve to be fired. Or that he’s even average at his job.

Just that he won’t be fired because Dewitt is not going to fire a manager and GM at the same time.

contenders make bad trades at the deadline all the time. I think I said “Maybe”, not will get.

Phillies might be a player for Carpenter since they missed out on Machado.

Problem with them is that they need pitching too and their best prospect is a pitcher that probably makes his debut when rosters expand. Also, while Carpenter would most certainly be an upgrade at 1st base he would probably play 3rd where they have Maikel Franco and who knows if they want to move on from him.

The Yankees are not going to give the Cards Torres for a dude who will cost them 32 million over the next two years. It would be like the Chiefs trading Mahomes for Von Miller.

You're free to think whatever you want, but if you keep on living in a fantasy land where you believe the Yankees are going to trade Torres you are going to be disappointed.

Hai guyz, maybe we could trade Bowman to the Blue Jays for Guerrero and Bichette hurp derp

our reality sucks. Dreams are all we got. :sulk:

Sounds like a trading partner for a Carp/Mikolas deal. What do they have and would give up?

Their system is like a mirror image of the Cardinals... pitchers and OFers. They'd probably move anything but Sixto from the minors and Nola, Arrieta, Hoskins, Herrera from the majors. Their team is pretty meh overall with only 1 hitter above .800 OPS. I'm amazed they are winning so many games.

AL teams are basically set except for the last WC spot.

Oakland & Seattle are the teams you need to be looking at for a trade in the AL.

And I wouldn't think either of those two teams are going to take on much in terms of contracts.

WTF? We have the hottest bat in MLB and no one is going to want to add that bat to their lineup? I find that hard to believe.

But, it would be our luck. The Chiefs get the 1st pick in the draft and there isn’t shit there to draft.

It's the position he plays and what its going to cost to get him. He needs to be a big upgrade to justify the cost. The team trading for him also has to have the pieces the Cardinals would want.

Mariners dont. Rockies do but highly doubt they trade Brendan Rodgers, in which case they dont. Phillies look an awful lot like the Cardinals. They do have a couple once highly thought of prospects like JP Crawford the Cardinals might want but to say they are struggling in the majors would be an understatement.

Yankees are the team to talk to but is Carpenter enough over Greg Bird who has a .911 OPS over the last month? Probably not. They need pitching.

the Cards have money to kick in to make the deal.

I'm not talking about the contract. Carpenter's contract vs his production is nothing.

I'm talking about players.

wellll whatever we get, right now, this moment in time, is going to be the most we will ever get for him.

Look at Oakland, they add Jeurys Familia, a nice addition to the bullpen. He's a free agent after the end of the year. The Mets got a mid-level thirdbase prospect and a 26 year old reliever - who isn't anything to really get excited about. They are not about to add 32 million in future payroll.

I wouldn't say that they would decline Carpenter's contract. It's just not their time right now. They are a contender for the WC but they aren't a contender to actually do anything in the playoffs. They are battling the Mariners to see who plays the Yankees or Red Sox in the wildcard.

Wong to the DL just as Munoz nears .295 BA and showing improvement in his defense. Another Convient injury?

If you make it in the playoffs, you can win. The Pirates could win the WS if they had sequencing luck for 20 games.

I guess. When you've got so many teams to go through that are just head and shoulders above you it becomes less about luck and more about planes crashing.

It'll be that same logic that keeps the Cardinals from selling, though.

There's a difference between being set as a WC team and trying to get to the game. The WC game is a coinflip or 60-40 even in cases of pretty big talent discrepancy.

The Cardinals have to pass multiple teams to even get to the coinflip. They should sell, and the fans know they should sell. What will keep them from selling isn't that, but Mozeliak's desire to hold his own job, which is why Holland, Cecil, and Fowler are still on the team. If DeWitt were smart, he'd fire Mozeliak at the end of the season regardless, and immediately if he even suggested buying anything.

I like this post. We just need luck. Our management is too cheap to sign it.

Poncedeleon has a no hitter going into the 7th inning in his major league debut.

Glad you jinxed it this time not me :)

I think he’s at 90 pitches. He’s not going to make it. But, no matter what, a very good start. Another talented pitcher that may some day be a regular starter in MLB.

Be nice if Mo could draft and develop position players like they do pitching.

I assume he'll give a home run the second I turn the game on, so I won't. :D

This.

Ive tuned in to see Wacha and Flaherty both blow a no-no the next inning they went back out.

He’s at 108 pitches with 2 out in the 7th but still has the no hitter intact. Only players can jinx. Not fans.

They are going to pull him even if he has the no hitter intact. Bader getting ready to pinch hit for him. He leads off the inning. 116 pitches with 2 innings to go. It’s the right choice.

I've lost count of the number of times they've given up a run the instant I turned the TV on. :banghead:

Kid doesn't have a putaway pitch and command that comes and goes. The zone was tightening as well.

There was a 0% chance that he completed that. Even if he managed to avoid giving up hits, it would've taken him 160 pitches to do it. He just could not finish off an AB. No wipeout offspeed pitch to get them to swing through with 2 strikes, not enough velocity to throw it past and not enough command to dot the black.

He just couldn't finish off ABs quickly enough to go 9.

Give him a pat on the back for an incredible effort and send up the pinch hitter. It was the right call.

so your saying, setting aside this outing, he sucks? :)

Bud Smith can give you an answer.

am I supposed to know who Bud Smith is?