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-   -   Chiefs It’s Herm’s defense now (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=184758)

Hammock Parties 05-15-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 4752368)
Who's been a starter for all of ONE season.

I don't expect Pollard to be a pro bowler or even a GOOD player his first year.

I do expect a few rays of hope.

Fish 05-15-2008 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 4752372)
Guys should be let go AFTER you've found a suitable replacement not before.

Nice concept, but it doesn't always work out that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 4752372)
In Herm's case, it's given him a good reason for getting rid of a lot of players whose only guilt was being smart enough to see through and question his incompetency.

What in the world are you talking about?

What player was let go because they questioned Herm's competency?

B_Ambuehl 05-15-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

First Hall and Mitchell, now WEIGMANN?

The guy who got tossed around like a ****ing rag doll last year?

People say things like this because he's small but I imagine people saying this are parroting things they heard and not watching tape. Wiegmann is still a solid center. Watch what he does for Denver. The main problems with our offensive line last year were due to right tackle, predictability in the running game, and Huard holding onto the ball for an eternity.

Compare Dante Halls returns in '07 to Eddie Drummonds.

Kawika Mitchell was at least solid against the run. Nap Harris does nothing very well.

OnTheWarpath15 05-15-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE (Post 4752401)
I don't expect Pollard to be a pro bowler or even a GOOD player his first year.

I do expect a few rays of hope.

Damn.

Did Pollard **** Carrie Underwood or something?

He's a first year starter who made mistakes. Most do.

Doesn't help that he was playing between two of the slowest CB's in the league. I'd love to see coaches film of each game and see how many of those mistake were actually his fault, and how many got pinned on him because he was trying to help out a burned Law/Surtain.

(Not saying it happened, but would love a closer look)

CupidStunt 05-15-2008 04:04 PM

For a guy who sucks off Jarrad Page as much as he does, you'd think he'd be a little lighter on a guy in Pollard who's either better or just as good.

I haven't seen a safety in the NFL in the last decade as invisible against the run as Page. Guy is a pure nickel safety with enough ability to pick off a horribly thrown pass every so often. (See every Raiders QB or that Matt Schaub duck.)

DaJuan Morgan was drafted (1) to play free safety, not strong safety; and (2) because he was the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE.

Hammock Parties 05-15-2008 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj4mvp (Post 4752421)
For a guy who sucks off Jarrad Page as much as he does, you'd think he'd be a little lighter on a guy in Pollard who's either better or just as good.

There is no way in hell Pollard is better than Page. They are light years apart in terms of development.

Page is THE reason we consistently stop Antonio Gates. He's outstanding in coverage, and last year he improved his tackling and starting hitting people.

Pollard has yet to put anything on his resume as a defensive player. He doesn't come close to Page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj4mvp (Post 4752421)

DaJuan Morgan was drafted (1) to play free safety, not strong safety; and (2) because he was the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE.

He was drafted to play both safety positions. And the Chiefs already said he was no reflection on Page or Pollard, but if Pollard doesn't start making plays, Morgan will take his place.

Brock 05-15-2008 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE (Post 4752427)
Pollard has yet to put anything on his resume as a defensive player. He doesn't come close to Pollard.

You can't even keep the two separated in your mind, that's how similar they are.

OnTheWarpath15 05-15-2008 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 4752416)
People say things like this because he's small but I imagine people saying this are parroting things they heard and not watching tape. Wiegmann is still a very good center. Watch what he does for Denver.

Compare Dante Halls returns in '07 to Eddie Drummonds.

Kawika Mitchell was at least solid against the run. Nap Harris does nothing very well.

Think he'll be good in Denver?

I'd ****ing hope so genius, considering they use a blocking scheme that emphasizes smaller linemen who can work in space.

He doesn't fit a smashmouth, power run game. Period.

Which games of Dante's should I use? The SEVEN games he played in last year?

You're right on one count: Harris does nothing very well.

And yet he was still just as productive as Mitchell was here in 2006.

Mitchell: 104 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 INT

Harris: 116 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 INT.

Hammock Parties 05-15-2008 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 4752433)
You can't even keep the two separated in your mind, that's how similar they are.

Aw shit. ROFL

Mecca 05-15-2008 04:13 PM

I just don't think Pollard is capable of being a good player in a cover 2, he has a serious lack of speed and gets beat on deep help because of it...

Drafting a player like him in a cover 2 means he should well be a LB, or a S/LB tweener role player that plays both spots in certain spots but never really starts.

CupidStunt 05-15-2008 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE (Post 4752427)
There is no way in hell Pollard is better than Page. They are light years apart in terms of development.

Page is THE reason we consistently stop Antonio Gates. He's outstanding in coverage, and last year he improved his tackling and starting hitting people.

Pollard has yet to put anything on his resume as a defensive player. He doesn't come close to Page.

Page sucks. Pollard sucks. Page gets a couple fluke interceptions every so often, Pollard doesn't get run over every single snap.

Get a life. Or a girlfriend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE (Post 4752427)
He was drafted to play both safety positions. And the Chiefs already said he was no reflection on Page or Pollard, but if Pollard doesn't start making plays, Morgan will take his place.

No, Morgan is a free safety.

Their take is worthless. What are they going to say, "We're not real happy with our FS production right now so let me introduce Mr. DaJuan Morgan."

Wait and see. Page sees the bench before Pollard. You can count on that like you can count on WPI hitting .150 on reporting Chiefs news.

BigRock 05-15-2008 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon (Post 4752129)
If Surtain is number three, it's probably a good thing because it means that Flowers AND another young guy (Patterson/Brackenridge/Carr) catch on quick and show enough upside to merit pushing Surtain to nickel...

Unless of course it means that Surtain has just lost THAT much speed...

I don't think playing the nickel in a cover 2 is the kind of demotion that people seem to think it is. Obviously it means Surtain wouldn't be starting, but it's not because he can't play or because other guys are better. A lot of times last year they'd bring in a 3rd CB and he'd take Surtain's spot while Surtain covered the slot receiver.

If they want him to be the nickel, it's because they know they can put him on a receiver as opposed to just playing a zone. If Surtain had lost a step and couldn't cover anyone anymore... like, say, Ty Law... they'd never play him at nickel. They'd keep him right where he is, like how they never moved Law around.

If anything, I think it may be easier for young guys to come in and be the starters. There was a scene in Hard Knocks last year where David Gibbs was raving about Brackenridge (I think) because he was playing nickel in a cover 2 as a rookie. If it's that hard a job, at least compared to the starters, putting Surtain there while the young guys start makes a lot of sense.

Hammock Parties 05-15-2008 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj4mvp (Post 4752494)
Page sees the bench before Pollard.

That is such garbage. The guy is a dynamo in coverage. He's the KEY to our defense when we play the Chargers. He SHUTS DOWN Gates. He's not about to see the bench.

Page has intercepted PEYTON MANNING now twice in his first two NFL seasons. He's the real deal.

Pasta Little Brioni 05-15-2008 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE (Post 4752499)
That is such garbage. The guy is a dynamo in coverage. He's the KEY to our defense when we play the Chargers. He SHUTS DOWN Gates. He's not about to see the bench.

Page has intercepted PEYTON MANNING now twice in his first two NFL seasons. He's the real deal.

Agree completely about his contribution in the passing game, but i think some are worried that he is a liability against the run. it's something he can approve on of course, but right now it is a concern.

FAX 05-15-2008 05:14 PM

My understanding is that, in the Cover 2, the safeties are, essentially, required to play a deep zone - support the corners deep and react to the run. Although we don't play a pure Cover 2 all the time, it would appear to me that, when we are in that base defense, the safeties have a darn tough job ... particularly when our backers aren't tackling and our d-line can't stop the run. On top of that, last years' corners weren't exactly shutting people down, were they?

Clearly, this defense needs to be built from the inside out. Only when we have linemen who can stand up against the run and corners who can close will we know what kind of safeties we have in the young guys. Otherwise, you're just asking too much from two positions. If Tank and Turk can come around and Dorsey is all he's made out to be, that's a start. Then, all we'd need are a head-cracking MLB and corners who can beat the old lady who swallowed a fly in the 40.

FAX


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