Barth lost this game......

See post 27

I love how things that certain board members say get attributed to people who have never had that opinion.

I'm not sold on Thigpen and the spread as a long term solution capable of winning a Superbowl. Some spread is fine, but if it's your base formation you are limited in a lot of situations. So, since my goal is to win a SB, I haven't been one of those who have been singing the praises of Chan, Thigpen, and the spread, even though it is obviously an improvement over what we ran before.

Did you see my previous post about how full of shit you are? Read it a few more times.

You're not very bright.

Back up... First you have to remember that he took over an aging DV team that was deteriorating, this was his first year.

Second year, rebuilding. but it took us half the season to come to grips with that reality.

So the third year under herm, what are we doing? Full blown, tilt, whatever, rebuilding. But things are starting to come together. Offensively, that is.

We are just to damn young. Sure, I believe that if we went the FA rout per the DV idea, we could be an 8-8 to 9-7 team year in year out. But to build somthing that competes per the way the patriots have been able to on a super bowl basis year in year out, takes time and patience. I think we have some damn good pieces in place. And we have drafted pretty damn well under Herm. That is an improvement we have seen over the DV years.

Its just going to take some time.

Don't make me throw my shoes at you.

Yes, you are truly a marvel of modern thought. If only ALL decisions could be made in hindsight, you would literally be the smartest man alive.

Did you see my previous post about reading my previous post about how full of shit you are? Please read it several more times, because you don't seem to understand that you are completely and totally FULL OF SHIT.

Why would we go for it on 4th and short when we have an 11 point lead, our defense has played well so far and this team has routinely showed that it cannot convert 4th and short all year.

Let me get this straight. Lets say we had gone for it and failed on that 4th down play. Keep in mind that

- KC was already up by 3 scores (or 2 scores and a 2pt conversion).
- The Chargers would have gotten great field position.
- The KC defense had only given up 10 points and had several turnovers.

So if the Chargers had taken over and come back to win the game, you wouldnt be here saying that Herm cost the Chiefs the game with his decision? That he had ignited the Chargers offense, which had been dead to that point? That he put the defense in a bad spot? That the smart decision with a 3 score lead would have been to punt?

You wouldnt be saying any of that? And not only wouldnt you be saying that, but you would actually be here SUPPORTING Herm for his decision? Even though that decision would have directly led to the loss? And even though that decision would have only reaffirmed Herms belief that being conservative is the right way to go?

Come on. You dont even believe what you are saying here, let alone anybody else.

I don't see the point in firing Herm now. If you fire him now then why did you let him do this whole "rebuilding" thing on the first place? When Carl and Chiefs management said ok to this rebuild they knew they would suck. Did they think it would be this bad? No, but the line between winning and losing in the NFL is fine. I don't see how going 2-14 is so terribly worse than 5-11. Teams can go from worst to first in the NFL, and it's not that rare for a team to win their division a year after sucking.
That being said, I think the notion of rebuilding is a sham. NFL rosters turn over so fast,75% of the guys will be gone three years from now so I don't think you can plan on just accumulating a bunch of talent. You just need to get as many good players as you can through the draft and free agency.
If the Chiefs had spent some of the money they still have under the cap, if they could have scouted the QB position better, if they hadn't been the only people on the planet not to recognize that Croyle was never, ever going to be an NFL QB, they could have won this division this year. Denver's not good. San Diego's not good. The whole rebuilding concept was a stupid sham. Detroits been rebuilding for years, what good does it do?

This.

I don't understand why people are focusing on a single situation when it was clear the Chiefs were in full blown play not to lose mode from the start of the second half.

This study has already been done. David Romer, economist, Cal-Berkeley. The 4th down study. No new study has refuted it.

All you guys can contend that going for it makes no sense, but the data demonstrate otherwise. By not going for it in situations like that, you lower your probability of winning. It's clear that coaches as a whole (with the exception of a few like Belichick who often do go for the jugular) play scared, and Herm is off the charts.

And it was certainly more than just that play -- the entire second half reeked of not to lose football.

I find it amazing that you guys can watch so much football, and not notice Herm's play-not-to-lose philosophy.

There are more reasons than I can count for wanting Herm to get fired, but I have to say, the premise of this argument has to be one of the stupidest basis ever.

There's not a coach in this league that would go for it at home, with an 11 point lead, on 4th and 1, from inside your own 40, with less than 12 minutes left in the game, after your OL has just been smoked on the same down/distance the play before.

Not ONE.

The 4th-and-1 argument was introduced to this thread by a Herm supporter. The real argument is that the entire 2nd half was played from a play-not-to-lose perspective.