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-   -   Chiefs Chiefs Players: Don't Blame Herm (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=198999)

beach tribe 12-23-2008 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5322959)
As soon as Herm is fired all the players will be on the "it was time for a change" "he just couldn't get it done" bandwagon. "our new coach is a better fit" "we have a better chance to get it done now". yada yada yada

They aren't going to bad mouth their current coach.
Ding Ding. As soon as he's fired they are going to return the bus chucking favor. Waters has already publicly questioned an area of Herm's approach.

Reerun_KC 12-23-2008 09:50 AM
As a VET KCJohnny, I will not stand behind you on this one... Herm is a marginal at best talent evaulator, pathetic X and O's coach and an overall douche bag that will never accept responsibility for his actions...

Funny how a man of the armed services with such integerity could stand behind and support someone who would sell his buddy out in a fox hole just to save his own skin, then blame it on the rest of the troops for letting him down...

Its sad KCJohnny, very sad...

Dartgod 12-23-2008 09:51 AM
This thread has potential.

RedThat 12-23-2008 09:51 AM
This is the way i see it,

what are the players, coaches, other analysts and executives around the league gonna say about Herm? That he sucks? That usually doesn't happen.

I think it's more about being professional then anything. And usually when the criticism does take place, a lot of times it's by an unidentified source.

crazycoffey 12-23-2008 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 5322963)
Dude, we've heard the story. The fact BB doesn't trash the guy, doesn't make him a good coach. The fact that he's well respected does not make him a good coach. His win loss record tells the story....Period.

New GM keeps him or brings in someone new, I won't really care either way. I think herm is likeable and doing alot of good here, this year is remarkably different looking than last year. And the losses were based upon different things. So I don't, personally, say win or loss record is the only way to measure him, not after a these last two seasons, it's a tainted stat. IMO anyway.

beach tribe 12-23-2008 09:52 AM
KCJ I just have to say this as well. I;m sure when you met BB you introduced yourself as a Chiefs fan. So what do think he's going to say about our coach. Do you really think he's going to do anything but praise him? C'mon.

beach tribe 12-23-2008 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey (Post 5322978)
New GM keeps him or brings in someone new, I won't really care either way. I think herm is likeable and doing alot of good here, this year is remarkably different looking than last year. And the losses were based upon different things. So I don't, personally, say win or loss record is the only way to measure him, not after a these last two seasons, it's a tainted stat. IMO anyway.
When the record over a 2 yr span is that bad, it tells a lot. Not that his record should have been good, but a good caoch will find a way to win some of those close games. Herm's teams find ways to lose them.

RedThat 12-23-2008 09:55 AM
I think Herm is a likable guy. And I think a lot of times Herms character has a tendency to overshadow who he is as a coach.

Kinda like that nice guy you hire on the job. Really likable kid, but, just horrible at doing their job. I think that best describes Herms in a nut shell.

chris 12-23-2008 09:56 AM
Hey, you are making the MISTAKE of bringing LOGIC into this circle jerk hatred!!!!!

Nothing that is said on this site matters one bit in the decisions made at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

But these threads are good comedy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5322951)
I have always said that it is truly odd that so many of the NFL coaches, players, and analysts truly respect Herm as a coach.... yet the fans here think he is the worst ever.

The difference is that they have experience with the NFL and can see the hand Herm was dealt.

Herm has only been allowed to rebuild one year. One. Sure, he has three drafts. And, oddly, those three drafts have yielded more talent than the seven drafts prior to it.

I don't expect Herm and the scouting department to be perfect. I just expect them to go about building the Chiefs the right way.

They have.

Of course the players endorse him. Of course coaches like Billick, Shannahan and Gruden have endorsed him. Of course guys like Phil Simms has endorsed him. Of course, several guys on the Jets have talked about how much better Herm was as a coach.

They all have a true knowlege base to make a decision.

I am as frustrated as the next guy about certain things regarding Herm Edwards. But, EVERY coach has strengths and weaknesses.

All the complaints about Herm were very similar to the complaints about Bill Belichick until he stumbled onto this guy Tom Brady in the sixth round.

beach tribe 12-23-2008 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull (Post 5322985)
I think Herm is a likable guy. And I think a lot of times Herms character has a tendency to overshadow who he is as a coach.

Kinda like that nice guy you hire on the job. Really likable kid, but, just horrible at doing their job. I think that best describes Herms in a nut shell.
Totally agree. Hell, I got nothing against Herm. Other than the fact that I don't think he can take us where we need to go.

kcfanXIII 12-23-2008 09:58 AM
to all herm apologists:
1. no half time adjustments, 8 games now have been lost by 7 points or less, all because of second half adjustments by the other team.

2. piss poor clock managment; this has plauged him throughout his coaching career.

3. coaching a brand of football that died with hair bands; i love defense as much as anybody, but you can't run a soft zone all the time. with the development of 3 rookie DBs this year, the chiefs should be running more man to man, to free up blitzers to help the pass rush. which in turn would help the DBs.

these three things alone are enough to make me wish for a new head coach. throw in some questionable draft picks, and less than average FA signings, and i begin to question his talent evaluation abilities as well. you can make as many excuses for the guy as you want, but if winning a superbowl is your ultimate goal, having a coach like herm edwards is the definition of neurosis.

crazycoffey 12-23-2008 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5322969)
As a VET KCJohnny, I will not stand behind you on this one... Herm is a marginal at best talent evaulator, pathetic X and O's coach and an overall douche bag that will never accept responsibility for his actions...

Funny how a man of the armed services with such integerity could stand behind and support someone who would sell his buddy out in a fox hole just to save his own skin, then blame it on the rest of the troops for letting him down...

Its sad KCJohnny, very sad...

I don't hate on KCJohnny for his overly opptimistic views, it's certainly a welcome change of all the hate around here. But my personal view on this comment is this;

As a general personal moral code - I don't like anything sports related to sincerely be compared to anything war related, an entirely different universe. A difference of such that it can not be properly communicated with words spoken lest with words typed on a BB.

with that, I offer no additional feedback to what he suggested as comparison nor your response to it.

The Franchise 12-23-2008 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5322951)
I have always said that it is truly odd that so many of the NFL coaches, players, and analysts truly respect Herm as a coach.... yet the fans here think he is the worst ever.

The difference is that they have experience with the NFL and can see the hand Herm was dealt.

Herm has only been allowed to rebuild one year. One. Sure, he has three drafts. And, oddly, those three drafts have yielded more talent than the seven drafts prior to it.

I don't expect Herm and the scouting department to be perfect. I just expect them to go about building the Chiefs the right way.

They have.

Of course the players endorse him. Of course coaches like Billick, Shannahan and Gruden have endorsed him. Of course guys like Phil Simms has endorsed him. Of course, several guys on the Jets have talked about how much better Herm was as a coach.

They all have a true knowlege base to make a decision.

I am as frustrated as the next guy about certain things regarding Herm Edwards. But, EVERY coach has strengths and weaknesses.

All the complaints about Herm were very similar to the complaints about Bill Belichick until he stumbled onto this guy Tom Brady in the sixth round.
No one is denying the fact that from a player's/coach's perspective....Herm is a likeable guy. What we're saying is that Herm is not a headcoach. He has poor game management skills and he has to have his "buddy" there to help with clock management.

Yes Herm has had 3 drafts and has brought in more talent than in the 7 years prior to him. Guess what? That's not that hard.

crazycoffey 12-23-2008 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 5322984)
When the record over a 2 yr span is that bad, it tells a lot. Not that his record should have been good, but a good caoch will find a way to win some of those close games. Herm's teams find ways to lose them.

I understand that - but IMO its just a surface look. Last year sucked, it was more carl's way than herm's way (FA > Draft) - then this year seemed to flip that (draft > FA) and carl was being shown the door. I see changes with our football team that are positive and can be attributed to Herm.

I see those negatives like you do too, and most of that is his responsibility. 85-95% of it. So if the new GM wants him to go - it'll be ok. BUT if the new GM gets bought in and we see year two of a truely Herm plan, I'm ok with that too.

In fact, because I know this years players and see this years changes - I'm more interested to see that second plan of action play out, rather than start again for the third year in a row. But that may just be me.

RedThat 12-23-2008 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcfanXIII (Post 5322991)
to all herm apologists:
1. no half time adjustments, 8 games now have been lost by 7 points or less, all because of second half adjustments by the other team.

2. piss poor clock managment; this has plauged him throughout his coaching career.

3. coaching a brand of football that died with hair bands; i love defense as much as anybody, but you can't run a soft zone all the time. with the development of 3 rookie DBs this year, the chiefs should be running more man to man, to free up blitzers to help the pass rush. which in turn would help the DBs.

these three things alone are enough to make me wish for a new head coach. throw in some questionable draft picks, and less than average FA signings, and i begin to question his talent evaluation abilities as well. you can make as many excuses for the guy as you want, but if winning a superbowl is your ultimate goal, having a coach like herm edwards is the definition of neurosis.
AND I'd also like to add, poorly coached fundamentally. Bad tackling team the Chiefs are week in and week out. i love defense too, but if you can't tackle, your defense aint gonna be good. We were a bad blocking team for the majority of the time since hes been here. Thank goodness Gailey switched to the pistol offense that has helped out the blocking some. Bad blocking, bad scheming, coincedence QB's get killed.

Also, a bad strategist too. I'll never forget the game planning in that playoff against Indy. Ughh it was the most atrocious I've seen in my life.


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