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Hammock Parties 11-28-2009 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6298968)
The Chiefs won a lot of games in the 90s, then Tony was drafted, and the overall decline of the Chiefs started in earnest.

Tony is traded to a young ascending team with fairly high expectations for this season, and suddenly that team seems to be backstepping.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Elaborate. So far it seems just like coincidence to me.

milkman 11-28-2009 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 6298407)
I was actually wondering about both OT's moving inside. I know Milkman and the gang are going to give Albert the benifit of losing weight and all, but he flat got beat time after time pass blocking. He did a nice job run blocking though.

I've talked about this a number of times in the past, Coogs.

In school, watching Albert, I saw a kid with some of the quickest feet I'd ever seen.

In Eugene Monroe's second or third start after taking over for for D'Brickashaw Fergurson, he was beaten around the corner by the RDE and Albert, who was doubling down on the DT saw it, and quickly and fluidly glided back and knocked the DE on his ass.

In space he was as graceful and smooth as anyone I'd seen.

In watching the combines, he and Ryan Clady were far more fluid than any of the O-Linemen.

The problem is, when you drop 25 lbs in a short time, you become a little awkward, being unused to moving that substantially lesser weight around.

Add to the fact that he was concentrating more on techniqe, and he became easier to push.

Then you also have the fact that he was learning a new scheme, then had a another new scheme thrown at him in just a month's time, and he has been/is thinking more than simply playing.

Go back and look at the threads about Albert since the preseason.

In those threads, I talked about how those issues would lead to him struggling, and that he would probably struggle mightily until after the bye week at the least, but we would start to see improvement as the season progressed around the 7th or 8th game.

If you've watched closely, then you would see, in the last two games, he's shown progress, and his struggles aren't nearly as glaring.

As the season progresses, he'll continue to progress.

milkman 11-28-2009 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6298972)
Elaborate. So far it seems just like coincidence to me.

I was being facetious.

Coogs 11-28-2009 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6298974)
I've talked about this a number of times in the past, Coogs.

In school, watching Albert, I saw a kid with some of the quickest feet I'd ever seen.

In Eugene Monroe's second or third start after taking over for for D'Brickashaw Fergurson, he was beaten around the corner by the RDE and Albert, who was doubling down on the DT saw it, and quickly and fluidly glided back and knocked the DE on his ass.

In space he was as graceful and smooth as anyone I'd seen.

In watching the combines, he and Ryan Clady were far more fluid than any of the O-Linemen.

The problem is, when you drop 25 lbs in a short time, you become a little awkward, being unused to moving that substantially lesser weight around.

Add to the fact that he was concentrating more on techniqe, and he became easier to push.

Then you also have the fact that he was learning a new scheme, then had a another new scheme thrown at him in just a month's time, and he has been/is thinking more than simply playing.

Go back and look at the threads about Albert since the preseason.

In those threads, I talked about how those issues would lead to him struggling, and that he would probably struggle mightily until after the bye week at the least, but we would start to see improvement as the season progressed around the 7th or 8th game.

If you've watched closely, then you would see, in the last two games, he's shown progress, and his struggles aren't nearly as glaring.

As the season progresses, he'll continue to progress.

Fair enough. I have not watched any of the games that closely this season except for the Steelers one. One game day, I find myself watching "the ball", and just enjoying the game. I had some time yesterday, so I went back through all the offensive plays, and a few of the defensive plays, just to watch the lines.

Early on, it looked like the right side of the line was actually better than the right side of the line... right up to the sack O'Callaghan gave up right before half. He struggled in pass protection from that point on. He did well in the run game though. Smith was pretty good all game long in both pass/run situations. The left side and the C had their moments both good and bad all game long.

When the whole line did their job, Cassel actually looked pretty good. I'm just not good enough to know what we need to actually fix the group to be good every play.

TheGuardian 11-28-2009 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6298974)
I've talked about this a number of times in the past, Coogs.

In school, watching Albert, I saw a kid with some of the quickest feet I'd ever seen.

In Eugene Monroe's second or third start after taking over for for D'Brickashaw Fergurson, he was beaten around the corner by the RDE and Albert, who was doubling down on the DT saw it, and quickly and fluidly glided back and knocked the DE on his ass.

In space he was as graceful and smooth as anyone I'd seen.

In watching the combines, he and Ryan Clady were far more fluid than any of the O-Linemen.

The problem is, when you drop 25 lbs in a short time, you become a little awkward, being unused to moving that substantially lesser weight around.

Add to the fact that he was concentrating more on techniqe, and he became easier to push.

Then you also have the fact that he was learning a new scheme, then had a another new scheme thrown at him in just a month's time, and he has been/is thinking more than simply playing.

Go back and look at the threads about Albert since the preseason.

In those threads, I talked about how those issues would lead to him struggling, and that he would probably struggle mightily until after the bye week at the least, but we would start to see improvement as the season progressed around the 7th or 8th game.

If you've watched closely, then you would see, in the last two games, he's shown progress, and his struggles aren't nearly as glaring.

As the season progresses, he'll continue to progress.

Good post milk.

Anyone who has ever spent a significant amount of time in the weight room knows that a big loss in bodyweight will cause strength to plummet. When your weight settles back your strength will stabilize and then actually go up. You won't get back to where you were before you lost the weight, but your body will normalize, so to speak. Well Albert appears to be in the process of normalizing. I think next year he'll be really good. He'll have a year of good technique work under his belt and he'll actually be stronger than he was this year.

Coogs 11-28-2009 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian (Post 6299008)
Good post milk.

Anyone who has ever spent a significant amount of time in the weight room knows that a big loss in bodyweight will cause strength to plummet. When your weight settles back your strength will stabilize and then actually go up. You won't get back to where you were before you lost the weight, but your body will normalize, so to speak. Well Albert appears to be in the process of normalizing. I think next year he'll be really good. He'll have a year of good technique work under his belt and he'll actually be stronger than he was this year.

The thing is, it doesn't appear to be all strength issues. He is getting pushed back into Cassel a bit to easily... as is Waters from the left side protection... which I can see being affected by the weight loss issue. What concerns me more is the quickness things. Changes of direction by the DE's seemed to cause him fits. And he was beat around the edge on a couple of occasions too. I know that happens to all LT's at some point, but with the weight loss, I would have thought that would have been less of an issue than the bull rushes. Is that wrong thinking? Or do both things go hand-in-hand with a weight loss/technique adjustment period.

Coogs 11-28-2009 09:19 AM

Different subject here, but on the rewatch, I kind of thought it looked like Mays was responsible for giving up a couple of the longer runs up the middle by the Steelers. I'm not sure who was supposed to be covering the Steelers TE either, but he was running totally free nearly the whole game. One of the MLB's I would assume?

milkman 11-28-2009 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 6299017)
The thing is, it doesn't appear to be all strength issues. He is getting pushed back into Cassel a bit to easily... as is Waters from the left side protection... which I can see being affected by the weight loss issue. What concerns me more is the quickness things. Changes of direction by the DE's seemed to cause him fits. And he was beat around the edge on a couple of occasions too. I know that happens to all LT's at some point, but with the weight loss, I would have thought that would have been less of an issue than the bull rushes. Is that wrong thinking? Or do both things go hand-in-hand with a weight loss/technique adjustment period.

Both.

The weight loss, as I said, leaves him feeling a little awkward, and he's not moving with his normal fluidity and athleticism.

He's also uncertain about his assignments, and finds himself trying to move in different directions at the same time, which makes him appear to be nearly tripping over his own feet.

Coogs 11-28-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6299021)
Both.

The weight loss, as I said, leaves him feeling a little awkward, and he's not moving with his normal fluidity and athleticism.

He's also uncertain about his assignments, and finds himself trying to move in different directions at the same time, which makes him appear to be nearly tripping over his own feet.

:thumb: Thanks for helping one of the learning impared! :toast:

Mr. Laz 11-28-2009 10:10 AM

he been at this weight for 4 preseason games and 10 regular season games.



how long is weight a viable excuse?

milkman 11-28-2009 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 6299060)
he been at this weight for 4 preseason games and 10 regular season games.



how long is weight a viable excuse?

For longer than you think, because he got by on sheer athletic ability and getting his body on defenders last year.

The weight loss placed a premium on learning technique, and, as pointed out like a thousand times already, he's just learning technique and new schems.

That's a lot of adjustment in a relatively short time span.

KCDC 11-28-2009 10:39 AM

I'm all for more OL pick ups in FA and the draft; but, as has been posted in other threads, the FA market this year (if there is no CBA agreement) is pretty slim pickings. Basically, its the same crap on the waiver wire this year. The draft has a few, but not as rich in OL as this past draft was. Also, take into account all the teams that have crappy lines and are looking to upgrade as well (Redskins, Packers, heck, with injuries, the Dolphins want their two guys back), there will be a real premium on that position. As such, expect the draft to be the only vehicle to upgrade at the position, and it may mean that Pioli uses one 2nd rounder and then a few late rounders. That will be unlikely to gain us any premium tackles (unless we find a real hidden gem), but will gain us some more average tackles and maybe a decent guard or center. So, don't be expecting that you'll see much opportunity for immediate improvement, sadly.

Mr. Laz 11-28-2009 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6299069)
For longer than you think, because he got by on sheer athletic ability and getting his body on defenders last year.

The weight loss placed a premium on learning technique, and, as pointed out like a thousand times already, he's just learning technique and new schems.

That's a lot of adjustment in a relatively short time span.

well they need to just move him to the bench then because he can't be playing this shitty next year .... period.

maybe in a couple years when his reeruned ass learns to walk again he can play again. Just in time for free agency.

milkman 11-28-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 6299076)
well they need to just move him to the bench then because he can't be playing this shitty next year .... period.

maybe in a couple years when his reeruned ass learns to walk again he can play again. Just in time for free agency.

I'm sorry, but the best, fastest way, for him to develop and grow is to get him out on the field, and by the end of this year, we will be seeing that progress.

We are already starting to see that progress in the last couple of games.

He won't be playing this shitty next year, because he wasn't sitting on the bench this year.

And even if he was, what the hell difference would it make?

We aren't going to the playoffs next year either.

Deberg_1990 11-28-2009 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 6299076)
well they need to just move him to the bench then because he can't be playing this shitty next year .... period.

maybe in a couple years when his reeruned ass learns to walk again he can play again. Just in time for free agency.

Move him to the bench? Why? Oh....so the Chiefs can make their run for the playoffs?? ROFL


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