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-   -   Chiefs Would You Take This Guy At #23? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=283451)

Bootlegged 05-07-2014 04:51 AM

Panthers want him at 28 if he falls to them. Sent the brass up to see him this week. He will go in the 1st.

Bowser 05-07-2014 10:06 AM

His measurables remind me of Jon Baldwin.

OldSchool 05-07-2014 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 10606196)
If we are gonna draft a receiver in the first, he better have the speed defenses need to respect.

Donnie Avery and AJ Jenkins are both capable of being burners. Speed isn't everything; if it was, then every player who runs a legitimate 4.3 should be tearing it up in this league.

What's more important, by far, is:

1. Strength - The ability to fight through contact and come down with any contested balls. Aggressiveness in going after the ball falls under this category as well.

2. Flexibility - Ability to adjust in mid-air to any passes thrown your way.

3. Focus & Vision - Ability to maintain your focus throughout the process of the catch.

4. Route Running - What's more important than being especially quick and fast is knowing when and how to get open.

5. Burst/quickness - Ability to get in and out of breaks and create initial separation.

You just need adequate speed to be a good and dynamic WR. My threshold is 4.5 or lower.

As far as size goes, your best shot at landing a true #1 is to develop someone who is 6'- 6'4" tall.

ToxSocks 05-07-2014 10:17 AM

This guy will likely be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, so no, i wouldn't take him @ 23.

Baldwin taught me something about NFL WR's. Big, strong and the ability to jump doesn't amount to much if you can't get separation. Agility and quickness is what get's NFL Wr's open.

I'll always remember some fan's camp video of Bowe and Baldwin doing a drill. Bowe looked fast, he made a quick cut, had great balance and looked smooth out there. He looked faster than i thought he was. Then Baldwin came up and did the drill right after him and looked gumpy, clumsy and slow.

It made me realize that while Bowe was big, he was agile enough while Baldwin simply wasn't.

When you watch Allen Robinson, his highlight catches are always highly contested. That's a red flag imo. It shows that he doesn't get much separation on the collegiate level.

Go watch Brandin Cooks if you want to see a receiver who can not only separate but also make amazing catches in traffic if he needs to.

ToxSocks 05-07-2014 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10607000)
Donnie Avery and AJ Jenkins are both capable of being burners. Speed isn't everything; if it was, then every player who runs a legitimate 4.3 should be tearing it up in this league.

What's more important, by far, is:

1. Strength - The ability to fight through contact and come down with any contested balls. Aggressiveness in going after the ball falls under this category as well.

2. Flexibility - Ability to adjust in mid-air to any passes thrown your way.

3. Focus & Vision - Ability to maintain your focus throughout the process of the catch.

4. Route Running - What's more important than being especially quick and fast is knowing when and how to get open.

5. Burst/quickness - Ability to get in and out of breaks and create initial separation.

You just need adequate speed to be a good and dynamic WR. My threshold is 4.5 or lower.

As far as size goes, your best shot at landing a true #1 is to develop someone who is 6'- 6'4" tall.

Strength is absolutely not number 1. There's plenty of big, strong WR's that don't amount to dick. If you have the ability to get open, then you don't need the strength to push off a DB for a contested ball. How strong do you think DeSean Jackson is?

Agility is number one, easily. Agility and quickness equates to better route running, which equals more separation and better ability to adjust to the ball.

Guys like Calvin Johnson and Fitz aren't just big, but they're also quick and agile.

OldSchool 05-07-2014 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 10607009)
Strength is absolutely not number 1. There's plenty of big, strong WR's that don't amount to dick. If you have the ability to get open, then you don't need the strength to push off a DB for a contested ball. How strong do you think DeSean Jackson is?

Agility is number one, easily. Agility and quickness equates to better route running, which equals more separation and better ability to adjust to the ball.

Guys like Calvin Johnson and Fitz aren't just big, but they're also quick and agile.

There are even more small, quick as hell, and fast as hell WRs who fade out of the league. Tell me, what do all of these WRs have in common?

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Michael Crabtree
Marques Colston
Alshon Jeffrey
Brandon Marshall
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Josh Gordon
Vincent Jackson

ToxSocks 05-07-2014 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10607025)
There are even more small, quick as hell, and fast as hell WRs who fade out of the league. Tell me, what do all of these WRs have in common?

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Michael Crabtree
Marques Colston
Alshon Jeffrey
Brandon Marshall
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Josh Gordon
Vincent Jackson

Aside from an old Boldin, Colston and Jeffrey (who is a #2) all of them are fast and agile for big wr's, which is the point you are missing. Hell, not even all of the receivers you listed are considered big. Colston happens to be one of the very few big, slow WR's that actually panned out.

Josh Gordon, AJ Green, Crabtree, Jones, Thomas, CJ, Bryant, All of those guys have speed and explosion.

OldSchool 05-07-2014 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 10607041)
Aside from an old Boldin, Colston and Jeffrey (who is a #2) all of them are fast and agile for big wr's, which is the point you are missing. Hell, not even all of the receivers you listed are considered big. Colston happens to be one of the very few big, slow WR's that actually panned out.

Josh Gordon, AJ Green, Crabtree, Jones, Thomas, CJ, Bryant, All of those guys have speed and explosion.

Crabtree is a 4.5 guy, his knock is that he isn't fast. AJ Green is another 4.5 guy. Dez Bryant is another 4.5 guy.

What all of these guys have, and you can add Bowe to the mix, is strength, flexibility, focus/vision, and route running.

Not all of them are especially quick or fast.

ToxSocks 05-07-2014 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10607067)
Crabtree is a 4.5 guy, his knock is that he isn't fast. AJ Green is another 4.5 guy. Dez Bryant is another 4.5 guy.

What all of these guys have, and you can add Bowe to the mix, is strength, flexibility, focus/vision, and route running.

Not all of them are especially quick or fast.

I don't care if they're timed at 4.5, those guys play fast due to their agility and explosivness.

AJ Green and Dez Bryant absolutely play faster than their 40 times.

OldSchool 05-07-2014 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 10607127)
I don't care if they're timed at 4.5, those guys play fast due to their agility and explosivness.

AJ Green and Dez Bryant absolutely play faster than their 40 times.

And? What sets them apart from all other WRs in the league? Strength.

ToxSocks 05-07-2014 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10607160)
And? What sets them apart from all other WRs in the league? Strength.

:facepalm:

Mr. Laz 05-07-2014 12:02 PM

Draft a QB in every round, every year until we get our Aaron Rodgers ....

FRCDFED 05-07-2014 01:51 PM

If Watkins, Cooks, and Beckham are off the board and I am going to take a WR at #23 then it would be Matthews.


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