I can't speak to the benefits of AWS over our current setup, but characterizing it as a "shared server" at "some local ISP" isn't really accurate. It's a dedicated server with only AC's sites on it, and we're by far the biggest. (He has a few other sites for his clients I believe, plus PatriotsPlanet.) It's hosted in a server farm with well over a Tbps of bandwidth.

As I mentioned, the problem as far as I can tell is that we're running on software that was designed in like 2007. Can we change it? Sure, but it's a ton of work, and just look at how people have responded to the change at the Orange Mane. Everyone loves vBulletin 3.8 for the front-end. It's just that the back-end sucks.

I THINK ads cover our costs these days, but I can't say that for sure.

I can start sending out daily dick pics to members. This should scare a lot of them away, which would (obviously) decrease traffic and increase server reliability. I'm ready to fight the good fight, sir, just give me the green light

I'm not a computer expert, but maybe we could cut off access to guests?

I just saw that we have 124 members online, with 770 guests.

Oh HELL NO! Whatever Taco Piece of Shit Wrong changed his board to would kill off most of the traffic here. That shitty board reminds me of driving my first car. 66' Chevy Biscayne 4 door, 6 cyl, 3 speed standard, vinyl bench seats, manual everything, no pwr steering or brakes, the extras were a heater and a key.

Eh, we've tried it from time to time, but 1) it's not just a magic switch we press (it probably takes 5-10 minutes to turn it off and 5-10 minutes to turn it back on) and 2) it only helps marginally. We did it for games last year from time to time, and the server usually crapped out regardless of whether we had guest access on or not.

Daface - we all appreciate you, FYI.

I blame Texans and Patriots planets

Is it time for another fundraiser?

The last one was a smash hit and seemed to help a lot, because the traffic around here will only get worse as we continue to dominate the NFL...

Move the site off to a kubernetes cluster and use mariadb gluster and could improve performance quite a bit.

Combine that with moving to modern software and the site can fly.

This site is going to be damn near unreadable during game time, and that makes me a sad turtle.

Sounds like a volunteer...

Or we can leave as it is. I don’t plan on coming here during games so it won’t impact me. :D

So would another fundraiser help or not?

I have no idea how it all works, but are we somehow limited in what can be done at this point, sharing bandwidth with other boards etc?

I've given up trying to use CP on game days. That's ok though, it's a free service and I know everyone is doing what they can to keep things running.

I love this forum software: https://www.discourse.org/

You can paste images directly, it has no pages - just infinite scroll, posts are updated live w/o refreshing (amazing for gameday threads), it turns all links into previews, easier to quote.

After spending some time on a discourse forum - vbulletin sites feel really dated and clunky to me.

why is he in the red?

I see he called scho a ****ing idiot at one point. Maybe that :shrug:

It was a legit statement. :D

Yeah for the most part, I don't participate in game threads or really get on the site during the games anymore. Only after big/important plays do I try to see what people here are saying.

I honestly don't know if it's a matter of money or just AC's time. Theoretically we could do a fundraiser for professional help or something, but it all comes down to what AC wants to do.

Thus, the push to move chat onto an external site. It's pretty much guaranteed that it will be up and running fine.

It's a bit of both but honestly throwing money at the server and getting better hardware won't do as much as people think. I will take some time to do some clean up and hopefully get things in better shape but it mostly boils down to what you said... old software(that people prefer) and a HUGE database.

I vote to change to the more efficient software. No, I don't know how to do it. :D

What DB is this is using?

MariaDB 10.0.38. Most of the tables are MyISAM. I've debated messing around and seeing what would happen if I changed the POST table (which is the problem) to InnoDB, but it would likely take hours to change it and hours to change back if it still sucks. Plus, it could also royally break stuff. So I've decided I'm probably not the best one to do it. :)

At some point, if we decide we're just going to live with this software forever, we may need to consider pruning the database down. I've mulled over something like cloning the site and DB, then putting it at a different URL as a pure archive (no new posts), then pruning the active CP site down to just threads/posts from the past 5 years or something. Constantly sorting a 13 GB table almost has to be the biggest issue. There are better ways of doing the query in newer versions of vBulletin, but the queries in this version suck donkey balls.

The one hardware upgrade that I wonder might help would be to move to a server where we could throw the entire database onto SSDs rather than HDDs. I could be wrong, but it seems like IO is probably the issue, so moving the DB onto a drive that would respond a lot faster might help. Maybe.

So for what it's worth, here are the options as I see them:

• Live with what we have. Possibly try a few things that probably won't help much. The end.
• Try a hardware upgrade (new server with SSDs for storage maybe). Might not really help much. Tough to say. But could work. Very time intensive for AC.
• Prune the database. Some loss of functionality (couldn't bump a 15-year old thread, which can be fun sometimes). Moderate amount of time for AC.
• Move to completely different software. We'd gain a lot of features in "modern" software, but we'd lose some functionality people are used to here for sure. Rep would work differently. Thumbs would work differently. Categories and prefixes would work differently. Mod options like thread bans might not work. It would almost certainly fix the lag issues, but there are plenty of sites out there that have gone under due to major functionality changes, so it's not a decision to make lightly. Would be an insane amount of work for AC and high amount of work for others like me and Bearcat to try and tweak all of the settings to make things as familiar as possible.

Percona >

Thank you for such a thorough and we'll explained answer.

When you take nearly 20 years of data and allow it to be searchable and accessible to reuse, it chews up CPU for sure.

This site also has an enormous amount of graphics, gifs and videos that add to the crush.

Could an archive DB be setup to house a lot of older stuff that is still accessable but not always indexed and updated?

I recall a large medical company like Merck or someone similar had an issue like this.

If you're asking if there's a function in vBulletin to put things in a different table than the POST table, the answer is no. If the posts exist on ChiefsPlanet, they exist in the POST table.

The version that I was suggesting would literally mean cloning the entire thing into a new installation like archive.chiefsplanet.com. There would be no interaction between the two, so if you wanted to "bump a post" from 2005, you'd just have to start a thread and link to it.

To be honest, do we really need access to everything ever said here? I get wanting to leave this place intact for as long as possible but thats a lot of posts to track. Seems like it would be better to archive at least once per decade, maybe even every 5 years. I'm sure its not just that simple though.

Yeah, if it helps, I'm sure people will live with it. You could still theoretically go back and find stuff on the "archive" site. You just couldn't bump threads. So if someone wanted to say "what was my first post" or whatever, you could still do it.

Sorry guys, it’s all of us Texas Tech fans who are now Chiefs fans. I rarely post, but I load the site probably 40-50 times a day (usually as a guest because, well, you guys know, doing activities that require me to clear browsing history and cookies on the regular so that the wife doesn’t see, and I forget to sign back in...).

I know it’s not much, but if there is a fundraiser, I’m in for a few bucks. I plan to be here for the next 50 or so years until I kick the bucket (at which point I’m sure we will all be able to upload our consciousnesses into a virtual ChiefsPlanet anywase - **** can these servers support that?).

Just Nuke DC and ban political talk in the lounge, if they want to start a spin-off circle jerk on something like Discord, sweet. 2+ million posts of ****ing garbage.

One could argue the picture forum is an incredible strain. Just sayin. :D

Just looked, 12 million posts on CP, 11k members

- nuke 2 million posts in DC
- nuke accounts with 0 posts that haven’t logged in in say, 2 years
- nuke all threads (and posts) with 10 or fewer posts (is that a thing?)

That’s true. Could nuke the pr0n threads. You sick ****s could jerkoff on a million other websites but you come to CP? ROFL

in life shit is always c hanging, change is not a bad thing. People will get used of it. I been to plenty of forums that tried to hold on to the old software and finally said **** it, and upgraded, people got used of it, and its a non issue.

Its time for AC to snap his fingers and delete half of the bulk of the site. :)

Aren't the pics mostly just embedded from offsite picture hosts like imgur, etc? If so, then those are no more taxing on CP's servers than regular posts; the photos/videos are loaded from those hosting sites, not here. There are 196k posts in the picture forum and 495k in the media center forum as compared to 12m in The Lounge. If the issue is the number of database records then the pics/media forums are not the problem.

PATRIOTS PLANET!!!! **** THOSE GUYS!!! With all that teams sucess you would think they could afford their own server. Bunch of low rent mutha fu#kers!! :cuss:

Its really more of a facetious comment, hence the smiley.

Only us sick ****s would admit to going to a football bulletin board to throw yogurt...

Moving DB to own server on SSD’s would help quite a bit. Moving to a small cluster on SSD’s more. Move to a cluster that also shards the tables across multiple instances even more so.

As an IT person I would do the last option because I hate keeping around super old software just because. :) And if you were going to do that and the cost wasn't to bad I would move it to Azure or AWS.

The downside of that is probably no way to import accounts and post history outside of that there is no feature that I couldn't do without that I depend on. People would get used to it.

Upgrading to newest VB would be seamless minus a few feature losses.
Migrating to another software such as Xenforo would be pretty much the same as they have conversion scripts. Just more time consuming.

I'm not an IT guy, but it would seem to me that an equipment upgrade might be one of the easier fixes. I'm not sure how long that takes, but you'd have to shut the board down for a bit. Could we live without our beloved board for 6-8 hours?
One thing I have noticed is we have stuff showing up on the 1st page that are of little or no interest to most of us. Why do we need a Broncos thread? The last time I looked, there were over 35K posts. If you want to see donkey news, go to one of their sites. The same with the St. Louis Cards thread. I don't know how much effort it would take to do some pruning, but do we really need to bump a 2 year old thread, let alone one farther back?
Personally, I don't know, or care to know, what software we have. I'll adjust to whatever changes are needed on my part. Again, if we can't bump a 2 year old thread or give a thumbs up/down, I can live with that.

I dont know what the answer is but if we have to go back to the collection plate again HMU

The Cards fans here will shank you, they are a feisty bunch! ROFL

hey but seriously.

DC takes up 16.5% of the total post count history here, on a football board, and it's a cesspool.

That would clean things up reaaaaal easily for the short term.

Seriously look into discourse: https://www.discourse.org/

It has sooooo many features that are an upgrade from vbulletin - the best being new posts auto-load w/o having to refresh the page.

We could try out just for gameday threads or something. It's definitely a next evolution in forum software.

AC - I'm a web developer. You could always hire me. I'll give you a good price to set it up.

That's pretty cool. Slack integration could be a cool addition as well.

Jesus, it's been nine years.

****, I've wasted my entire life!

Discourse would be super expensive for the number of page views this site gets.

There is nothing it does that a modern build of VB or Xenforo can’t do.

Has anyone suggested deleting DC? I would suggest that, if it hasn’t been suggested.

so all accounts and history are wiped out, on purpose. How do you think that’s going to go over with the posters?

Just to clarify, a move to either a new version of vBulletin or a move to Xenforo would both allow for accounts, threads, and posts to be migrated over (as limested mentioned earlier). Not sure about Discourse. Still a **** ton of work though.

Any idea what clearing out a subforum of 2Million posts would look like from a time ROI standpoint?

I'm sure there would ad revenue lost by deleting a forum that nets a lot of views.

In terms of performance improvement, what would that do?

And how much of a time investment would it take from you/AC/etc...?

Pretty sure it's already been discussed but if it would help I'm all for it. Just ban political discussion on this BB. If you want to talk politics find another board.

On a more relevant note, this site has been dragging for me for quite a while now but today it's running great. :shrug:

BRC change is inevitable that is just life. As Daface said you can keep a read-only archive if you are feeling nostalgic


If that is the case then moving to Xenforo sounds like a good plan. you could do a new server migration to VBulletin it looks like as well.

Clearing it out wouldn't be a huge hassle. Wouldn't make a huge dent in our issues though. And you can bet it'd piss some people off pretty fiercely.

CP was not ready for a franchise QB.

Whatever we go with - auto-loading gameday and draft threads w/o having to refresh would be amazing for this forum. Which is also something I like about discourse - it has no pages - just endless scroll.

I've liked Xenforo for years, but there's no question it would be a massive undertaking - initially for AC, and in the long-term for anyone else who pitches in to help make it look and work well. It would be a complete, ground-up redo in terms of look and feel.

**** that...

Here's an idea on how to begin pruning old threads:

1. Lounge Thread: Any 5-10 years old gets deleted EXCEPT the Top 50 or Hall of Classics
Any greater than 10 gets deleted except Top !0

2. DC Threads: greater than 5 years old gets deleted EXCEPT Top 10

3. Pictures Threads: ONLY Top 20 get saved

4. Media Threads: ONLY Top 20 get saved

5. ROMPER ROOM: 10 THREAD LIMIT AND LEAST POPULAR ALWAYS DROPS OFF FOR GOOD

Moving forward, the only way to save a thread for future is if 100 posters approve

Option, instead of deleting have all these threads moved to a seperate server

Also, All inactive posters greater than 3 years get deleted

NO MORE MULTS moving forward

You like to make things complicated.

Have you tried it? It's pretty sweet. Also it's hard to do auto-update with pages.

I haven't been on a lot today but it seems to be running quite a bit better. That said, it's the middle of the week during preseason.

If the server has extra bays sliding a couple SSDs in and copying the data files over would be pretty easy and not a huge amount of money.

I'd say we leave the lounge as is, but delete all threads with less than 10 posts. It'd get rid of a healthy chunk. Maybe 2 million of the 12 million posts? more? less?

DC isn't even football related... it's a cesspool of evil. Ship it out to elsewhere and let football and entertainment lounges reign. There's 2 million in there. As for pissing people off, I'd be eager to see the results of a poll.

Now we are talking about a forum with 1/3rd of the space cleared out.

Easy to do, somewhat improved efficiency, by only removing the lowest value posts.


We are about to have the greatest Chiefs season in franchise history, and possibly the beginning of a dynasty. Best to get out in front of it and take out the trash now.

I say revamp it however is easiest and most cost efficient for AC. If people are that butt hurt over losing a post count, should that happen, then they probably need to take their internet-reliant man card and turn it in for a real one anyway. I like what others have said about taking DC and media out. This is a sports site. If they are that adamant on talking about those certain subjects, there are plenty of other dedicated sites they can frequent. All of this worked whenever there were a handful of people, but that has changed, and the site needs to change with it. Just have to decide whether this is a social catch-all site or a sports site. Maybe make one sub-forum for anything non-Chiefs related, a general sports sub-forum, and maybe a general KC Metro sub-forum for those planning to visit the area. That's all just my opinion, though, which, of course, isn't worth the time it took me to type it. LMAO

Yes, I've used some apps and sites with that functionality, and I really hated it. It's less organized and lacks structure.

We already use discourse for chat here. That's all it's good for.

Discourse ≠ Dischord

I’m with Fish on this, endless scroll sounds like a skull ****ing nightmare

You can have DC when you pry it from our cold, dead hands

The most important issues of our time are discussed in there

Yes it’s often pointless and ugly as sin, but there are also bright spots that I believe enhance our understanding of the world around us

That's fine and well, but it's bogging down the Chiefs football message board and we are about to enter a Dynasty with the greatest quarterback who ever lived.

I'm sure there's plenty of spots on the web to discuss AOC's birth certificate / Epstein ties or Trump's pee tape.

bogging down... I would say the media and picture thread would be causing the same problem.

What would the cost be to upgrade. I'm in for helping out with some cash...

Maybe depending on the app I dunno. But in a forum it's super easy, you don't have to keep clicking new page - just scroll down or up. Also it allows auto-update at the bottom.

If endless scroll works for twitter and FB there's no reason it can't work for forum threads.

I really don't think people would be clamoring for pages if all forum threads were one page endless scroll. You're just used to pages.

You’re preaching to the choir, the inevitable weekly game day crashes and delays are why I’ve often asked if it’s time for another fundraiser

But it sounds like 3-4K isn’t gonna be a panacea this time, our old setup is maxed out... and taking away a big chunk of ad revenue as you mentioned earlier just might make things worse

JMO

Difference is that DC has 2million posts in it, or 16.5% of the total posts in CP history.

What I’m curious to know, though, is it a traffic issue? A storage issue? Both?

What if we just deleted the entire history of DC then, but allowed it to stay? That way we clear up the space but don’t lose the ad revenue.