WTF?

I think he meant to put a "?" instead of a "."

Yep, practically the same guy. Has anyone ever seen Eric Hicks and Jarred Allen in the same place at the same time? Let's cut Allen and move Hicks back into that starting spot. Hell, Plummer retired, so we don't need speed to defend the bootleg anymore.


Allen 2004- 2006: 142 tackles/21 Assists/27.5 Sacks/10 forced fumbles/15 passes defended
Hicks 2000-2002: 118 tackles/33 Assists/26.5 Sacks/ 4 forced fumbles/5 passes defended

My point is that it is silly to compare Allen with DT when DT played next to Smith, Saleamua and Maas his first few years in the league. I'm sure DT's production wouldn't have been the same playing next to the caliber of players that Allen has had to line up with.

I'm saying that to this point he's an average player that you guys talk about like he's some kind of budding star. I don't think he's the best end on the team, much less one of the top 15 or 20 ends in the league. That's without even considering the impending suspension or his history of drinking problems. He doesn't deserve a big contract as far as I'm concerned. He hasn't earned it on the field, and even if he had, his behavior off it nullifies that.

Personally I think he's a cult figure in KC because of his personality, more than his production. But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I realized that shortly after going off half-cocked.

Allen would easily get 15 sacks on a D-line like the one in Carolina, IMO.

FYP

I don't know that I'd disagree with that, either, Rooster, although that wasn't what I was referring to. KC fans always seem to get a woody for white players, although Allen's clearly better than guys like Boerigter or Chris Horn.

So, what's the deal? Do we want him traded because he's holding out, or because he's had off the field issues? If it's because he's holding out, well, that's just stupid. Every franchise tagged player who has held out would then be target for trades. Neil Smith pulled that shit in '93, and he went on to have a pretty good year that year.

If it's because he's gotten in trouble, I think HemiEd hit it - what if we trade him and he ends up a pro bowler while we draft the next Junior Siavii and Snoop Minnis? Yeah, Herm did good with the '06 draft - much better than Vermeil ever did - but I will wait a year or two more before I annoint him a draft day genius.

Allen is a solid, ascending player. Worthy of having a defense built around him along with Hali and DJ. I don't want to see him get traded.

All that being said, I personally believe that nearly any player on a football team is not safe from trade, if the price is right.

Very true. It was an attempt for a little humor with a dusting of truth on top. :)

post from Sly @chiefscoalition.
 

610 Radio this afternoon. Rhonda Moss reported that she spoke to Jared Allen's agent for 54 mins this afternoon. According to her, Harris, the agent says that Allen refuses to talk long term contracts with the Chiefs anymore. He will not report or sign his contract for the $2.35 M tender until right before camp. He will not report for the off season programs. He claims that 2007 will be Allen's last year in KC. Unless they Franchise tag him. (Fat chance at $9M or so) When the subject of the effect of Allen's 4 game suspension was brought up, the guy allegedly said that it wasn't a big deal because it wouldn't cost the Chiefs any money since they would not have to pay him.

Seems he forgot that it costs the team because he won't be on the Field to play!

If these reports are correct, Allen's agent is poisoning the well. If so, I say trade him if they can get a couple of 2s or better.

I think this is going to ruin our season. I can't believe what a colossal dick Jared Allen is being. After the ****ing stupid shit he pulled, he doesn't deserve a long-term contract. He should be going out of his way to be humble right now. Sign your tender and EARN A LONG TERM CONTRACT. Douchebag.

He deserves $$$ for his on field performance. But with the suspension and recent talk of harsh punishment for off field issues he is being rediculas.

His agent sure seems to have him brainwashed as well.

Comparing Allen to Urlacher and Manning is laughable. For one thing, neither was 1 strike away from being out for an entire season.

Spin it any way you want, Allen doesn't view the DUI convictions as a big deal and they absolutely ARE.

His latest comments sure seem to be FILLED with the humility a recovering alchoholic inevitably learns...

Keg, he's a little better than you're making him out. Allen had 7 forced fumbles in 05 and 3 in 06. He was also 2nd in the NFL in tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

You're right, he isn't shawnee merriman. But he's better than mediocre. He's definately a good NFL starter.

You are completely 100% full of it. Carlota interviewed him and he said he hasn't had a drink in 5-6 months. Do you have proof to the contrary? Any photos of him this offseason boozing it up?

I agree with almost all of you, Allen is pretty good on the field and his motor is always high, turnovers, all good, yes.

But character has to be big, he wants too much (according to media from CP) and no one knows what is going to happen with the suspension or if he really learned his lesson.

It will be interesting to see how things end up, I'm watching with anticipation.

Keep Allen, pay him what he deserves based on what he's done on the field. Put some contract incentives in there regarding any future DUI's he gets will affect his pay, etc.

We need to build this defense around Allen, Hali, DJ, Harris, Pollard, and Page. We've plugged some vets in there as well but we need to get younger.

I do think Jared Allen is getting bad advice from his agent.

What he needs to do is to get in this year, work his ass off like a good team player, and have his best year in the NFL. He would then be in a great position to score a huge contract, far better than this year with his DUI's hanging over his head.

Hes one of the best young players in the league..he might need reined-in a little ..but doesn't need to be traded .....

This is excellent advice, but I doubt he understands it. The urge to want money now is huge especially when you are age.

Allen needs to dry out and get real. The momentum of more-than-a-hand-slap discipline is building. He will be the lone soldier yelling that tank to halt when it's running over him.

He wants to get paid. He doesn't seem to understand he doesn't deserve to be. But apparently he sees a way to get paid, and is taking it. Of course he pisses that away too with a third DUI, and then NO ONE will want him. The Chiefs would gladly fork over a long-term deal next offseason if he kept his act clean and posted decent numbers, but he has to be a ****ing jerk about it and act like the Chiefs have somehow wronged him.

Which comments would that be? The ones relayed by his amature agent, or the ones we actually heard come out of his mouth? The interview I heard Carlotta69 do, came accross as humble, to me.

UHHHHHHHHH maybe but I don't think so. Doesn't sound like he's grown up at all. Nor making better decisions than this one.
http://tennessean.com/galleries/2005...ages/cma20.jpg

ROFL

I specifically stated I was talking about his MULTIPLE CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS. I didn't mention his drinking at all.

Jared and his agent obviously do not understand that his convictions and the associated suspensions ARE detrimental to the team.

So now his agent is an amateur? This is getting good.

What do you expect Jared Allen to say publically at this point?

His handling of the current contract situation is the anti-thesis of humility.

Of course, none of this suspension and conviction stuff matters now anyway.

Allen's agent is adamant that they will not negotiate a long-term contract with KC going forward.

The situation appears to be irreparable.

Trade him now.

Do you disagree with his agent being new at this? If so, school me, I am here to learn.

I am inspired by your recognition of the word humility.

BRC, Jared doesn't look like an athlete in that picture. ROFL I remember seeing it once before. Can you fill me in on the details.

It looks very much like something I might have done at his age.

Isn't that what Tony G and his agent said as well? Money heals all in the NFL.

Humility has nothing to do with this situation. Allen is ready to enter the big payday and big contract of his career. And please don't tell me that remaining clean and sober for the 2007 season is going to change anything. Carl will still hold the previous convictions over him and try to low ball him - as that is what the GM's job is to do; without making the situation so untenable that the player's agent declares he is refusing further talks.

That's what I was referring to yesterday when I mentioned the idea that a lot of fans love him for his personality. Hard-drinking good-'ol boy. That's great if you're looking for somebody to hang out with.

Not exactly the qualities you're looking for in someone you plan to committ millions of dollars to over the course of several years.

As was said a few posts back, he needs to keep his nose clean and have an amazing 12 games on the field this year when his suspension's over. Earn the big contract next offseason, and get rid of the red flags.

That would be the smart way to approch this.

hu·mil·i·ty /hyuˈmɪlɪti or, often, yu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hyoo-mil-i-tee or, often, yoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun the quality or condition of being humble; modest opinion or estimate of one's own importance, rank, etc.

No he is not.

NEXT YEAR is the year of his big payday, not this year. He is a restricted free agent for a reason - because he was a FOURTH ROUND to whom the Chiefs gave a chance.

And if Carl doesn't hold those previous convictions over Allen's head, he's NOT DOING HIS JOB.

Staying clean and sober for any amount of time does not EVER change the fact that if Allen gets caught for something as simple as shoplifting in the future, he's out for a year.

Ok htismaqe. Start a poll.
Trade him or keep him.

You make your point very well as usual. I guess my opinion is so heavily influenced by watching the Thanksgiving game replay Wednesday night. I specifically focused on watching him and have never done that before. Denver made some half time adjustments to slow him down, but he sure owned them in the first half. He single handedly stopped the Plummer bootleg on one play. There have been days when the Planet might have erected a bust of the player that could do that.

LMAO

Not to mention the St. Louis game last year and the Redskin game a couple of years ago. He pretty much dominated and swayed the outcome of both those games.
He can and does have the potential to be a game breaking player.

Don't get me wrong.

He's a good player. Bordering on GREAT player.

But to me the writing is on the wall:

He's gonna be suspended. He's one transgression away from being gone for an entire season. He doesn't want to be here. And to top it all off, he's gonna be a UFA next year.

If we can get good picks for him, it's in the team's best interest to take them and move on.

He also has the potentail to rack up another DUI and get suspended for a long period of time.

I just wanna ask, because I don't think anyone has brought this up yet.
What happens if Allen is arrested again? Is there any type of suspension that will incur?
I'm still not clear on that, maybe somebody can enlighten me.

It's from a newpaper article out of state, in Tennesse somewhere about the concert. They just happened to publish a pic of Allen. They had no idea he was n NFL player. He was following some band around on tour for the summer. Dave Matthews or something like that.

"He doesn't want to be here" See, this is where I have a disagreement or at the very least, a misunderstanding.
Does anyone have a link or actual quote where Jared himself says this? Everything I have seen or read like this, has come from his so called agent. An agent that is on the big stage for the first time, if that info is correct.
The one time I heard Jared, Carlotta asked him very pointed questions, he indicated he planned and wanted to be in KC. He made me believe everyting was fine. :shrug:

I personally, would rather lose the guy for a year, than lose him forever.

Stage 1 is fairly straightforward. Essentially a positive test of someone. Now this could be a random test or a tip from someone such as NFL security or the team. All tests are confidential but a failure gets you into Stage 1. This stage is not to last more than 60 days, during which there is random testing. A player is usually given a few days notice but must not miss the test. Failure of a test or missing of a test gets you automatic admission into Stage 2.

Ah yes, Stage 2. During Stage 1 a treatment plan has been put together. Complete with regular meetings with Psychiatrists, Medical Doctors, etc. to stop what the NFL deems might be a problem starting. In Stage 2, which is only to last 24 months or two complete seasons, this gets more intense. You life is really not your own. Tests are more often, less time in advance, and the penalties are far more severe. In the NFL’s own words…

“(1)Discipline for First Failure to Comply in Stage Two: A player who has a Positive Test or who in the judgment of the Medical Director fails to comply with his Treatment Plan during Stage Two will be subject to:

(a) A fine of four-seventeenths (4/17) of the amount in Paragraph 5 of the NFL Player Contract if the player has successfully completed Stage One; and

(b) A suspension for the period of time to cover four consecutive regular season and post-season (including Pro Bowl, if selected) games without pay if he did not successfully complete Stage One.

(2)Discipline for Second Failure to Comply in Stage Two: A player who has two Positive Tests in Stage Two; or fails twice, as determined by the Medical Director, to comply with his Treatment Plan in Stage Two; or has a Positive Test and fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, as determined by the Medical Director, will incur:

(a) A suspension for the period of time to cover four consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was fined pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(a) above; and

(b) A suspension for the period of time to cover six consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was suspended pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(b) above.”

Pretty straightforward. You would think someone in Stage 2 would take this seriously. After all, where else can you get paid this much money as in the NFL? But addiction is a very tough thing to beat. But stay away from Stage 3!!!

In Stage 3, the player has failed the other two stages. There is no time limit on Stage 3. Once in this stage, you are in this stage for the rest of your career, period. Unannounced testing, counseling from all angles, NO TOLERANCE for failure. This is stricter than the requirements of the military, companies, or any other sport I know of.

You fail in Stage 3, the penalty is, in the NFL’s own words, BANISHMENT! First for a minimum of one year, second, while it is on a case by case basis the chances of maintaining your career are pretty slim. Start looking at a new line of work. Once you are banished, you do not get paid regardless of whether is was a guaranteed signing bonus or not. If you apply for reinstatement, and are reinstated, then you can pick up your contract. Although many teams have clauses in the behavioral section of the contract that would nullify it if you hit Stage 3. At Stage 3 you are really at the mercy of the NFL to get yourself back in.

I'm sorry I still don't get it.
What will happen?

It's just not as simple as saying "His agent said that, he didn't".

Do you honestly think Allen's agent did a 1-hour interview with Rhonda Moss and told her a bunch of stuff that Allen wasn't aware of? Seriously...

Allen's agent told her 2007 would be his last year in KC. Do you honestly think he'd say something that impactful without talking to Jared about it first?

Jared Allen is not being punished under the NFL substance abuse policy.

Jared Allen is facing a 4-game suspension because he was convicted of a crime.

Same as Warfield.

Well, I told you what Allen said, and his interview was here on the Planet for everyone to listen to. Was he just being PC? Heck, I dunno, but he sounded sincere.

I will ask again, do you have a link or a transcript of this "agent" interview, since we no longer have Allen saying it? I don't get all the KC media out here, even though I try. Could this agent just be posturing Carl, or trying to play hard ball?

Damn I hate the thought of losing our best defensive player since DT!
****!

The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Allen was leaning towards being PC, while his agent is leaning towards playing hardball.

I don't particularly relish the though of losing him either. But if we're going to lose him after next season anyway, I'd rather get it over with now and get some picks.

My sentiments exactly

I can agree with this,

I just want to remain optimistic that this is all the fluff of negotiations and that it's not a sign you are right......

Pretty simple really. He has ran out of mulligans.
He is already going to get 4 games off without pay.
One more "out of bounds" and he is off for a year.

I'm asking because I missed it, on this thread, another thread on the news, etc.....

do we know for sure the number (four games) he will miss or is it still a guess? (an educated one or not)

I think it is pretty well set in stone. In fact, I think if you read 4th and Long's entire post, it is in there.

Stage 2 item b ;)

I don't read much of 4th and long's posts normally, but like I said, I probably missed it in this thread.
:p


I was just curious, I was under the impression that maybe it was one of the stumbling blocks in the negotiations. therefore, how many games Allen misses would/could be a direct reflection on his contract offer. But it's only my thoughts and opinions, not anything else.

4th and Long's post was regarding the NFL substance abuse policy.

Allen, but getting CONVICTED of DUI, is also an offender under the NFL's CONDUCT policy.

In Eric Warfield's case, he wasn't enrolled in the substance abuse policy after his first offense, so he would have avoided the 4-game suspension on his 2nd offense, except that he was convicted of DUI. The NFL then got him under the conduct policy because of his conviction.

Dang, Them coalition boys got the goods on Gwes Too.
 

Post from KCXfactor on the coalition regarding Greg Wesley.



He told me a couple weeks ago that he wouldn't be here this year that they were trading him but it was a much better deal for him. I said I hope that it isn't to a team that we have to play every year cause I don't want him getting 3 ints against us all the time and he said no you don't have to worry about that cause I'm going to a team that is really good and in the NFC. He then said that I would be seeing him though this year. So I said well that gives it away either Minnesota or the Bears and he said damn X you are good but wouldn't tell me which one. He told me that it was pretty much done they were just working out the final details and it would be done within a couple weeks. That was 2 weeks ago this coming Sunday so we should be hearing it shortly. I told him that it had been a pleaser working with him with various charities and he told me that he was going to miss me and all Chiefs fans. He said we are by far the best in the league and that the work that i do for the community symbolizes exactly what it means to being the best fans in the world period.

DaBears, for the 130th overall pick, in the 4th round, would good for me.

This may be part of the "blockbuster" that Herm referred to?

I'd say a 4th is just right, not too much to ask for.

I kinda wonder if the Bears would still be interested since they got Archaleta though?

When Mitch Holthus mentioned the potential blockbuster, I don't see how it wouldn't include LJ or Allen.

Green, Knight, and Wesley? I see these as more of the "might be unpopular descisions with some people" type of moves.

I think J.A. is such a key player of the Chiefs. He talks smact which excites the fans, media and teammates... So he is pain in the @$$...... So are so many other great atheletes. You have to remember, they are young and very rich. And for the record, at least in their opinion, their shit does not stink.

In case this link has not been posted. Info about all the arrests around the league...

http://www.nflcrimes.blogspot.com/

Yeah, the "blockbuster" Holthus talked about was definitely someone of LJ or Allen's stature...

The only others on the roster who would have their stature are untouchable or it would make no sense to trade them because of their youth.

LJ and Allen are the exceptions because of their unique situations.

Possibly Gonzalez once he realizes Croyle is the QB and it looks like they are prepared to go through some struggles. I just don't see that Tony would resign if he didn't have some insight at who would be throwing him the ball.

I could see him asking for a trade next year if this year is rough enough and he wants a shot at a ring. But not this offseason.

Makes no sense to trade Waters. Dj and Hali are untouchable IMO.

Maybe we could sweeten the pot on the Green deal by including Dante Hall. Especially to Miami who lost Wes Welker. I think they have signed a couple more OLinemen and Az Hakim, which seems a prelude to a trade for Green IMO.

With depth at WR, C,G,and CB, along with potential at DT, and a DE in this draft, I would love to accumilate as many picks, preferable 1st day as possible.

As long as I can remember we haven't been this busy with potential trades and that is exciting.

Well all I can tell you is how he was when he was here, off air and on air...On air--he was PC and wants to be a Chief. Off air he seemed resigned to the nature of the biz and negotiations, and wants to be a Chief. It seemed to me that he is trying to trust his agent. He also is very much NOT drinking. He was even a little weirded out becasue I wanted him to sign my bottle of tequila...he didnt sign it...I could tell he was uncomfortable with it, so I dropped it. He was incredibly humble, and very much realized his mistakes. But I could tell he would be alot of fun to hang out with--which I may do soon.

I would think that a Pro-Bowl TE would be the best friend and favorite target of a young QB. I expect to see TG much more involved in the offense and big numbers next year.

To me that's why this would be such a gut wrenching descision on whether or not to trade him. I've had plenty of friends who loved to drink and do stupid things and get in fights but that's what made them themselves. Jared seems to just want to have fun and hopefully has realized like many (myself included) that drinking and all that can get you into trouble that is not worth it.

By chance do you have the interview you did on your site somewhere to listen to know for myself and others who also may have missed it?

Oh I would hope so too.

Just going by his interview on NFLN recently which he thought Damon would be the guy.

Which is to be expected in this situation. Not many vets or no players will come out and publically support Croyle until he has his chance to earn it and prove it.

I just think too damned much. :)

In that order? :hmmm: