Britannica.com has a pretty good article on Fascism, from which I've excerpted a paragraph below. Fascism isn't so much about the size of government as it is about the subordination of individual will and the coordination of corporate and government functions in the interests of power.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article...35&tocid=66529
Fascism rejected the main philosophical trends of the 18th and 19th centuries, the “spirit” of the American and French revolutions with their emphasis on individual liberty and on the equality of men and races. The message of the Enlightenment had served to enhance the dignity of the individual and had emphasized openness in a secularized society. In contrast, fascism extolled the supreme sovereignty of the nation as an absolute. It demanded the revival of the spirit of the ancient polis (city-state), above all of Sparta with its discipline and total devotion to duty, and of the complete coordination of all intellectual and political thought and activities against modern individualism and scientific skepticism. The Italian slogan “to believe, to obey, to combat” was fascism's antithesis to “liberty, equality, fraternity,” and to the prophetic and Christian messages of peace. The combination of an unquestioning faith and of a virile combativeness was to transform the nation into a permanently mobilized armed force to conquer, maintain, and expand power.

Let me make two points:

There is a difference between a racist and a racist remark. I have co-workers that make racist remarks to me or in conversation with others. I do not necessarily think that they are racists (perhaps some are), but they definitely reflect the racist thinking and practices that exist in US society. A part of racism is the de-humanizing of a group, and the building up of rationalizations to excuse the practice of racism. For instance, in the Anti-Bellum South a common rationalization was that Africans were intellectually and morally inferior to whites, and that therefore it was actually "the white man's burden" to bring Christian religion to Africans, whether they wanted it or not. It was further rationalized that slavery was actually an institution that provided the opportunity for Africans to benefit from contact with "superior" civilizations, whether they wanted it or not. Of course, the cruder, more dehumanizing aspects of racism grew along with this "benevolent" view. Racism, of course, still exists in this society ( and others), although it has been weakened by the victories of the Civil Rights movement, and by revolutions in countries such as South Africa and Algeria. An outcome of continued racist practices in this country, is the reaction against those practices and behaviors. I think John was reacting against what he perceived to be a racist remark---whether the person who made the remark is a racist is something that, I think, John may be uncertain of, but still it's not surprising that John, or anyone who has faced consistent discrimination, would react in such a way. However, on the other hand, baiting, whether it's race-baiting, or red-baiting, does nothing to achieve any meaningful discussion, and always devolves into, you guessed it, name-calling hysterics.

Secondly, most of the definitions of fascism are useless, because they are so broad that they could include Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, the slave-owning South, and maybe the Roman Empire. To find a useful definition of fascism, I think it's necessary to read books such as "Fascism and Big Business" by Daniel Guerin, a French journalist who lived in Germany and France prior to WWII.

Soliday

:)

I wholeheartedly concur.

soliday - I realize you are trying to rationalize TJ's comments as you interpretted them, but let me assure you: the guy is a flailing demagogue. I've dealt with him on many previous occasions on a Broncos' forum - he flings aspersions and labels freely; with complete disregard and abandon. He is the kind of person who gives 'liberals' a bad name and helps to perpetuate the whacko leftist stereotype. TJ can come off as a bright individual - and indeed, I believe he is - but not wholely informed, and vary narrow in his perception. One day, I think he'll 'see the light'

:)

I wholeheartedly concur.
:confused:


:D

I'm back. Just reviewed the new stuff. What a read.

Lapdog, thanks for defending me in my absence. I particularly enjoyed your dissection of Taco Boy's bullshit. Very amusing. Personally, I didn't feel it was necessary to point out that Taco is a racist - his venomous hatred of white Americans has permeated every single post. He has very clearly exposed himself for what he is. I still note that he has never answered my question effectively - why can't Mexicans fix their own country? He just pushes the blame off on us evil white Americans, then wraps himself in indignant rage when any of us even suggest that his darling illegal immigrants cause problems for us. Typical, and tiresome, liberal double-standard crap. I actually kind of pity him.

Talk about a reach. Me? Racist against Whites? You have got to be kidding me. If you saw me, you'd think your statement is pretty stupid. I fit the profile of a white guy to a tee. Talk about a ridiculous statement.

As for the rest of your post... Who said America is white? Clearly it's not. I don't blame "White" America for anything. There is no such thing as "White" America...

But that comment gives some real insight as to how you view this country.

Oh yeah...

I've given you your answers. You just ignored them.

But you haven't told us anything about what would happen to the economy (as far as farming is concerned) is there were absolutely no illegal aliens in America.

Also, point out to me one post where I said that Illegal Aliens don't pose a problem. Sure they do. But I've maintained that you should concentrate your efforts on attacking the problems, not the symptoms. You just can't see the forest through the trees.

What I'd give to be wholly informed like you obviously elevated individuals...

(sarcasm off)

There you go again. I never said "White America." I said "White Americans." There are many different types of Americans, and some of us happen to be white. I see your facts are as clear as ever.

And as I've said before, I have no problem with those illegals who come over, work the fields, and go back, as long as they're carefully monitored. Of course, we have enough deadbeats that are here already (of all races) that would probably do the job effectively if we kicked them off the dole and told them here's a job - take it or leave it, but you won't get anymore free money.

And again, you haven't given me an answer on my question - you've simply skirted the issue. You've obviously done this because you have no answer. And when I pin you down on it, you call me a racist. Your crap is getting very, very old.

And again, if people are illegally entering this country, being a burden to our society, dealing drugs and perpetrating other crimes, and we STOP THEM FROM COMING HERE, we are attacking the source, and the problem.

You're really logic-challenged, aren't you? By the way, 2 + 2 = 4. That one's probably stumped you as well.

Frazod,

Maybe we need a DMZ along the border that would attack the problem and the source.

We'd better not go there, Rick. Certain people might confuse upholding our laws and defending our country's borders with being murdering racists.

Heaven forbid confusing upholding the laws with justice. Every liberal knows that the laws were meant to protect the powerful (because their judges legislated them from the bench)

Now that I think about it, Taco Johns' tacos aren't that good. They have no taste to them.

CG

couldn't resist

no offense to Taco John the person, I just thought of food when I looked at your name.

here is where things are going down

Lurker? I forgot that I registered here.

We could solve two problems if we built some giant hamster wheals in Mexico and the illegals could run around in them and produce electricity for California. We could put a movie screen if front of it with a picture of the border.

Hey Frazod,

I haven't seen anything that you wrote as racist. I understand many things that you and others wrote especially protecting our borders. I'm one of the small percentage of minorities that don't march in step with the liberals and the DNC. I believe in personal responsibility for everyone. In this day and age, the race card should have died out with disco. Unfortunately liberals keep rehashing it in order to control the masses of minorities and other groups. Anyone who uses the race card only seeks to divide, IMHO.

"Why can't Mexicans fix their own country?"

All I can say there is Mexico has been under varying forms of socialism for many years. Not many opportunities for them in that situation. You can't blame them for trying to come here. Opportunities is what made this country great. Opportunity gave Taco John the chance to get a diploma and earn a big fat paycheck. We should never close our borders for LEGAL immigration. As for Mexico, there is no easy solution. A chance to prosper in their own country would stem the tide of illegal immigration here. Change in Mexico will have to come from within. We can help where we can but throwing money at the problem will only end up in corrupt hands.

TGI

My 2 pesos.

You have a very refreshing attitude, GI. And I appreciate someone finally stepping up and identifying some of Mexico's internal problems (Taco's a bit short in the sack department when it comes to the truth).

Well, I'm outta here - I've kind of taken the night off - getting tired of endlessly staring at a computer monitor at home and at work. Talk to you all tomorrow.

Why do people defend Frazod calling Taco a racist and flame Taco?

(sings) Theres a whole lot of Mexican goin on, goin on in Taco Johns!

CG

sorry, last one :D

So let me get this straight, Fraz... Your "solution" to the illegal immigration problem is for the government to pay babysitters to watch all the illegal immigrants, and make sure they get out of America by the time harvest is done... Right? How is this solving anything? You're just throwing more money at the problem, and creating an administrative nightmare to boot... But on top of that, what about the people that don't cooperate... Is this the part where they get shot?

Maybe your answer should be more focused at attacking the opportunities that draw illegal immigrants into America... They wouldn't be here if there weren't any jobs for them, now would they? Take your gun laws argument, and adjust it to fit this situation... Why create more laws when you could be enforcing the ones that are already on the books? Isn't it illegal to hire illegal immigrants? But God help the farmers if these laws are enforced.

Your solution to stopping the meth trade in America is to stop Mexicans from getting across the border to sell it... How is that a solution. You're not eliminating the opportunity, your just changing the hands that the money goes into. The only way you are going to stop illegal drug trade is to take the profit out of it. Period. Otherwise, there will always be someone there to pick up the slack. This is America, and where there is money to be made, there will be people there to make it.

In other words, you have no solutions... Just a few half cooked ideas.

I remember growing up my neighbor hated black people. This crotchety old bastard never shut up about how the black people were going to change his quality of life. Guess what? Twenty years have passed, and he's still an as$hole, at the same quality of life too!

And for the record, I know no one has accused me of being racist, but I am not, I was just having some fun with the name Taco John. I can see how someone would think I was being racist, but I am not, just playin around.

OK... I've stayed out of this long enough...

Frazod,
I agree with your frustraion... especially the part about speaking English. This isn't a race question for me it is a culture question. If I move to a foreign country (which I did... for those who don't know, I'm currently living in Spain) I should be expected to at least TRY to blend in with the existing culture. As an American (Thank God) I really don't try to hard... but I would fully understand, if everyone looked down on me because my Spanish sucks or I don't follow local customs.

BUT I don't have any problems with bringing holidays and other cultural "artifacts" to a new culture. I DO have a problem when people expect them to be respected. I'm having a 4th of July party in Spain this year and I FULLY expect it to be ridiculed and seen as a novelty. This is a NORMAL response. It would be SUPREME arrogance for me to expect people to respect MY holidays when I'm in THEIR country. If I was ever to make Spain my permanent home than am I to expect them to adopt MY holidays? NO.

The same applies to language. The idea that we should "make allowances" for foreign speakers IN AMERICA is catering to the lowest common denominator. Making it easy for people to live in America without becoming "Americans"

(to be continued)

(and now the rest)

Taco John,

I understand your indignation for what seems a lack of respect for other cultures... but Mexico, Europe, Asia, etc... are FAR worse than America on this subject. Yes, the U.S. is a "melting pot" ... but let's think about what that means. A melting pot is where diffferent items are added together to form a new item... not just a mixture of a bunch of disperate groups. We are an old enough country now to have a national identity and I think that America does a fine job of accepting new peoples into this identity. But if you add a sprig of parsley to tomato soup... it doesn't mean that you should call it parsley soup. Too many people want to not only feel special but be RECOGNIZED as different. I'm proud to be an American.. I don't celebrate Irish holidays (except St. Pats which btw is much more of a holiday in the USA than it is in Ireland) such as Irish independence day... but if I did that would be fine... but I certainly wouldn't expect others to respect my uniqueness in this.

(one last thing)

Immigration,

I don't agree with making stricter border controls... because it just won't work. The border with Mexico is FAR to big. Plus, I have ALOT of friends in Texas that are only one generation removed from Mexico. The nice thing is that MOST of them are more "American" than I am. In fact, quite a few of them look very poorly upon the state of affairs in Mexico. It isn't fair to make blanket statements blaming all Mexicans for the joke of a country that Mexico has become. The fact is the "ruling elite" in Mexico (of which I have alot of exposure) are mostly raging dirtbags, who couldn't give a damn about their own people. It is easy for us in America to condemn some of the uprisings that have occured in Mexico in the last few years... but at least it show that there are some people willing to stand up for change.

I don't have an answer for the situation there... so I'm very loathe to make too many sweeping judgements.

---Kyle
(so am I a racist too? or just ethnocentric?))

I agreed with everything you just said... Even to the last period.

Austin-

Are you a mediator? If not, perhaps you should consider a career change! Like Taco, I fully agree with your perspective. I'm glad you chimed in.

I've been saying for years that it isn't rasism. It's 'culturism'. I'm glad somebody else sees it. I wonder if everyone does, or if most people just don't get it because they are too busy accusing people of racism or defending themselves from accusations of racism.

Everyone-

My opinion is that if people on the left would stop shouting 'racism' and quit being so thin-skinned, AND people on the right would quit closing their eyes to the problems and state their opinions more politely, that maybe, we could all find where everybody REALLY stands. Then we could hopefully come to a common ground that was not what either side really wanted, but was tolerable for both.

This can only happen if people on the right don't allow radical left-wingers to inflame them, and if people on the left don't allow radical right-wingers to inflame them, either. It would also only work if people get over their selfish "what's in it for me" attitudes.

Each and every one of us needs to ask ourselves frequently, "Am I being too selfish? Am I helping others address their needs as well as my own? What points can I concede to the other side that will encourage them to make a concession as well?"

Incidentally, asking these questions are what morality and indirectly, religion, bring into our society. If people would return to morality, they would automatically treat each other with more respect. Individual respect is what any society needs to run smoothly. This is why morality is important. The lack of morality has been playing a large negative role in our society on many of these issues.

LapDog
serving all mankind ;)

Fraz-

I was hoping I hadn't said anything to upset you. (Wouldn't want you to shoot my family :) )

Seriously, I wasn't really defending you so much as attacking Taco John. He pissed me off. It was obvious somebody needed to put him his place. While I'm closer to your opinions than his, I do see merit in some of his points. I DON'T agree with his delivery.

As far as stating the obvious, I called Taco a racist for the reasons listed below. I personally don't think he's racist. However, I do believe that he is unfairly stereotyping you and others (myself included) as ignorant, midwestern, arrogant, blindly patriotic (brain-washed), intolerant, lazy hicks who have no sympathy or understanding when it comes to the plight of his Mexican friends and relatives. (John, I suspect that you are probably half-Caucasion, but I still think you have a problem with certain types of white people. This gets back to the comment Austin made about culture.)

1) I hoped to get him to re-think his attitudes toward whites in general and also toward the stereotype he seems to be applying to his opponents on this thread. I was hoping to get him to SEE his racism, if it is actually there. It was a calculated risk with little down side and a fair amount of potential. When somebody recognizes that they stereotype people too, they are more likely to give a little slack to someone who has a different stereotype.

2) I wanted him to see how unfair his comments were. He, and we, have no idea who you are, just like we have no idea who he is. I wanted to show him that it's really easy to draw a conclusion like that and then have it stick in your own mind, even though it's unfounded.

3) I hoped that he would find that being accused of racism is just as offensive as calling somebody '******' or 'spic' (sorry guys and gals) and that it should be reserved for those times when you truly wish to offend someone. If you're talking with a liar, you either work around it or you don't deal with him. You usually don't call him a liar. It get's nothing accomplished. Likewise, if you're talking with a racist, you try to find a way to get him to see it or you don't deal with him at all. You don't call him a racist, especially if you are trying to get him to see your point of view. Again, it get's nothing accomplished.

4) Finally, I was hoping to put an end to all of the antogonistic behavior in general. By providing a sample of really bad behavior, and making it clear why it was bad, I hoped to bring the discussion back to the normal standard that the Planet usually enjoys. I think I succeeded in that regard.


If anyone found my earlier posts offensive, that's regrettable, as it wasn't my intent. However, I felt it had to be done.

LapDog

OK, after reading Donko John's post I think I am going to be sick. " I don't like this, but I am willing to help you out with it anyways". Give me a break! And if the majority of the people are starting to think like this, I want the break to come in the neck. Put me out of my misery now.

Donko,
in defense of Fraz, I think he would want Italians shot at the border if they lived next to us and were causing the trouble. He doesn't have a prejudice against Mexicans as such, just Mexicans, or whatever nationality, who are screwing with OUR country. That's right, OUR country. Our ancestors gave their lives in one form or another so that they and their posterity could live in a nation of freedom. Freedom from big government, freedom from religious persecution, economic freedom, and a whole host of others (the ones I mentioned actually have much to do with the first).


Fraz,
I agree whole heartedly with what you have said (well, I only read about half of the posts, but what I read I agree with). And don't listen to those who think you should calm down. Things won't change with an attitude of "I really don't give a d@mn". Keep the passion, even after you are out of that he!! hole.

A few responses to new posts:

1. Taco, this may come as a shock to you, but actually my solution to the drug problem is legalization of all drugs. I see America's war on drugs for what it is - an abject failure. The way I see it, there are only two solutions to the drug problem - bomb the places that produce the drugs into oblivion, which isn't realistic (so please don't quote me as advocating it), or concede defeat and offer legal alternatives to the current drug trade (which would go a long way towards obliterating crime everywhere). There is no easy solution to this problem, but the current war on drugs is nothing more than modern prohibition, and it is doomed to failure. However, short of that, increasing the border patrol would help stem the tide, at least a little. I want the flow of illegal immigration cut back (from everywhere, not just Mexico) regardless of what they're bringing, or not bringing, over with them. Obviously Mexico is the biggest problem because they can simply walk or drive here - it's a bit difficult to walk or drive across the oceans others have to cross.

2. Kyle - you have a very realistic attitude about foreign holidays. I've been in Spain on the 4th of July, and take my word for it, its just another day to them. If you pull the kind of stuff Mexicans do here - driving around with an American flag flying out the window of your car and generally raising hell on the 4th, you can fully expect to get your a$$ kicked - and they won't do any soul searching about it, either. I've seen American flags burned in Spain on occasion - they have a very low tolerance for our BS there and react very badly to being disrespected. I and several of my old Navy buddies have the scars to prove it. I could tell you some stories... but another time.

One thing I never mentioned - much like St. Patrick's Day in Ireland, Cinco de Mayo is not nearly as big of a deal in Mexico as it is in the U.S. (there was a story on the news about it). It is apparently a very minor holiday there. Only the Mexicans living in America go berserk over it.

In any event, I've lived my last May 5th anywhere near a place where anyone will give a damn about it (at least on a grand/annoying scale), so I really no longer care about it one way or another.

Lap Dog: Don't worry, the only things I shoot at are targets at the range (and aluminium cans out in the woods whenever I get the chance). It was Taco who referred to you Frazod's Lap Dog - I never had any such ideas on the subject.

I could be mistaken but, didn't Donko John call Fraz a racist? And we are not supposed to be defend Fraz why?

I think that is just human nature that when people come to live in a land with a new language - that it will take a generation before that family is fluent in the new language. My ancesters got here about 130 years ago, the adults that came over probably never spoke english, but the kids picked it up.

When I have traveled abroad, I try to learn the language before I go, but am always dissapointed in myself for not doing a better job. ( I alway make sure that I can order a beer, and ask directions to the bathroom) I am grateful when the native people help me out, even though I am butchering their language. When I encounter foriegn speakers here at home, I try to be helpful - but if there was an aggresive or violent attitude accompanying the exchange - I would walk away.

Our problem with our southern border is not going to go away until the disparity in living conditions decreases. We can either 1.) wait for Mexico to increase their standard of living. 2.) find someway to help them increase their standard of living, or 3.) continue as we have been (so why bi+ch about it?)

Jamie, Oleman takes an occasional shot at me - it really isn't a big deal. I'm actually surprised he still comes here - seems he's happy and content with the rest of the liberal idiots over at the pigskin board.

As for your earlier post, I concur. No racist here, I just happen to have a little pride in my heritage, and don't want the country my ancestors fought for, died for and built overrun with people (any people) who have no right to be here at my expense. Selfish bastard? Perhaps. Goose-stepping Nazi? Hardly.

It amazes me when a white American person stands up for their culture and heritage in a peaceful manner they are a closed minded bigot....

When others throw big fits, riot in the streets standing up for what they believe in it is usually referred to as "ethnic pride"....

frazod -

I'm sure you know I was kidding about the shooting bit. When I read my first sentence, that joke just popped into my head so I went for it. And I know you never considered my your lap dog. We both know that was John's attempt to make me look foolish. It failed.

Who's Jamie? raiderhader?

Zeb -
Usually 2nd generation immigrants do speak English. The thing I'm worried about is that there are so many new Mexicans in southern California, Texas, and maybe other places, that they can actually buy gas, go to the store, go to church, and everything else without having to learn the language. As a result, the kids may end up speaking English poorly, if at all. Urban ghettos and the whole Ebonics thing is an example of how that works.

LapDog
over and out

Don't worry, Lap Dog, I saw the humor.

BTW, what is the origin of you Lap Dog handle, anyway?

Fraz,
I see nothing selfish about you wanting to protect what has been left to you. But then I am a racist myself, so who cares what I think.


Lapdog,
yes I am Jamie. I would like to say bravo to you for your work on, I think, page four. Where you totaly showed Donko John for what he is. That was excellent work. How long did it take to research all of that, and then type it up?

I was wondering when somebody would ask.

Well, for one thing, I love dogs. But mostly, because it's a triple entendre. (three meanings for those who don't know)

Friendly, cheerful, wholesome people will automatically think of a favorite pet, so it invokes feelings of friendship and warmth in those people.

People who are less innocent or who have a more jaded look on life, are probably more inclined to think it means something else... uhhh... less wholesome. Those people would be inclined to treat me as an equal, instead of a happy-go-lucky pushover or general loser.

The third meaning would just be a tired dog who's running lap after lap, working his tail off. I figured nobody would think this was the real meaning, but I could make a humorous reference to it at some point.

LapDog
damn I'm a manipulative bastard

raiderhader -

Thank you for the wonderful compliment. If I told you how much time... you might lose some respect for me.

LapDog
(It was a few hours worth of work, mostly just confirming the accuracy of the logic and ferretting out any flaws in the post. I couldn't allow him to come back at me without a planned response. I intentionally left in one or two errors in the hope he would take the bait and make himself look even more foolish.)

Alrighty, then.

Personally, mine's a combination of my last name (Frazee) and General Zod, the villian from Superman II. My girlfriend from high school started that one, as I often told her, well, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

I won't go into any sordid details on that one.... :D

LapDog,
Lose respect for someone who puts that much effort into his work? Are you kidding? The world needs more people like you. Keep it up.


LOL Fraz!

Frazod

Hee hee..
No need to explain. I read your source in another post some time ago!

LapDog

Can You Say Ironic?
 

I am sitting here on the computer reading about Mexicans over running our country, and what to my dismay do I hear outside the window? A couple of gals walking down the street speaking Spanish! The invasion is now in podunk Oklahoma! What the he!!?

They must have gotten lost on the way to Chicago, Jamie.

Actually, if I hear two people walking down my street speaking English, I find it unusual...

June 1 is just around the corner. Thank God.

Well..

I hate to further your frustration Fraz, but here in KC, the nearby McDonald's, Wendy's, and Taco Bell all employ mostly Mexican people. The majority of them barely speak English. It is frustrating trying to special order anything. Try to order Cherry Pie and they keep trying to give you apple. I just don't go there very much anymore.

LOL!

Isn't it sad when it is strange to hear your own language in your own country? Pretty soon I'll have to know three or four languages to be able to get by in my own land. And I have enough trouble mastering my own tounge. :rolleyes: There is a reason countries have set a language as a national language - to make life easier.

The Asians, the Blacks, the Hispanics were brought to America as cheap labor. They have more than paid their way. Look around at the most prosperous nation in history which will soon be governed by these groups.

Oleman,
the ones who are ancestors of the ones who were brought here are paid for. It is the ones who aren't natural citizens that need to pay a price to become one.

I repeat my earlier post....
 

As long as there is a great diparity in opportunity between Mexico and the U.S., we will always have this immigration problem.

Do we:
1.) Do nothing, and hope for Mexico to improve herself?
2.) Try to find some way to help Mexico improve?
3.) Just sit and complain about Mexicans?

Fraz,

I couldn't tell by your post... but I hope you understood that I understand ENTIRELY your frustration. My point about the 4th of July in Spain was that I know that I'm the exception and I will fully understand any indignation that comes my way. I will not be forcing this holiday on anyone ... it will be a private party on the beach. Even so, I will still expect some ridicule, and rightfully so.

My point is that it is THEIR culture (Spain) and I have NO right to be angry if they don't respect mine.

So instead of being obnoxious about it... I plan to keep things simple and not "force" my holiday on anyone.

--Kyle

P.S. The attitude towards Americans has "softened" alot recently... we are definetely not "hated" so long as we show a measure of respect.

Raider Hater
How do you know those girls you heard were illegal?

At this point, I'd rather help out the Russians than the Mexicans...


MY brother married a russian gal(that lil' pinko!) :-)# and I honestly have to say that these people(ok, the 22 I've met) have the best work ethic of ANYWHERE in the US...These people work, then get off and go to job 2, then work, then take 15 minutes for lunch, then work, then think about sleep, then go back to work.

ALl she does is go go go go...She wears me out, and she says that due to the extreme poverty over there now there is no other choice. Corruption is soo bad she compares it to Chicago in the 20's...She says every cop is on the take, and the one's that aren't take orders from one's that are...

We could help this country out, gain their respect and friendship, put tha' last nail in the coffin of the cold war, and take a little of the burden of being the great democratic society and let SOMEONE ELSE help carry that load.


Or, we let them fail due to their own inability to cure the corruption and poverty and allow THEM to sink back into communism, and us BOTH to back to the 60's and practicing useless "duck and cover" drills....


Let's help a brother out...


In the order of "most likely to kick our @$$" in the event we DON'T become friends....

We (the Amerian workers) wanted more money but don't work as hard as the foreigners. Sorry to say that but it is the truth...

It is the truth...





Did I just agree with you?

who cares what you think Brad

Ok...



Now that's more like it!



:-)#

Kyle, I understood what you said and agree with it completely. You are absolutely correct to believe that they don't give a shit about our Independence Day, nor should they. Still, I hope you have a good time.

And by the way, I LOVED SPAIN - my favorite of the Mediterranean countries I visited. The Spanish people were by far the friendliest to us Navy types. All incidents of trouble were isolated, and invariably resulted from us getting drunk and rowdy, and them taking offense. They had every right to, as well.

When I was in Spain, I very much regretted not taking Spanish in high school. Didn't have any interest in it at the time. Of course, I never knew I'd visit Spain, or for that matter, live in the largest city in the middle of my own country....

The flag burning incident took place in Cartagena - me and another guy got lost and came across a big demonstration, where several hundred very pissed-off Spaniards were burning our flags. My friend and I were pissed, but since we were outnumbered 200 to 1, we wisely, quitely and quickly left. The only time I ever saw that happen.

I'd love to go back to Spain. Hopefully, one day I will.

Hey Wacko, maybe I care what he thinks. Perhaps you should take your stupid a$$ back over to the pigpen.

Frazod,
 

thanks man, I mean, it's hard making new friends at a new school, and the kids give ya' a hard time, and no one let's you in the milk line, and bla bla bla.....

No problem, Brad. I got my fill of this guy's sniping crap on the Star BB. Never has anything good to say about anyone.

Brad,

You are so right about the Russian people. I have some Russian friends who came to this country with very little. They worked very long days, 7 days a week. They ask for nothing and are eager to learn and contribute to our society. They are eager to learn our ways and speak our language. Ask them where they are from and they will tell you, "We are American's by way of Russia" not some hyphenated word American.

I don't know any Russians, but one of my best friends married into a family from Romania. They've all immigrated over here legally, speak English fluently (most learned it here, quickly), work hard and are good, productive people. I've got no problem with that kind of immigrant.

Frazod,

One of the other BB's that I visit had a big debate over the topic of illegal immigration. It is a gun board and even the Mexican's on there think that the border's need to be tightened up and the immigrants need to learn English. I thought it was rather funny after the same debate had gone on here.

They even posted a picture of the billboard which welcome's one to "California the Illegal Immagrant State."

When you see a Mexican how do you know he/she is illegal and worth your scorn?

That is a good point Rick, but in fairness, I doubt if you'll find a lot of liberals on a gun board....

I don't know Oleman, you seem to have no problem with it. Scorning others, that is.


Go get ahug from your woman. it 'll make you feel better.

Having read most of the posts,

I just want to say that I feel the first post from Frazod, and the first from Michael Michigan cover most of what I would have said.

Good job guys,

To the pinking liberals............pffttt.

Hey Jim, I noticed in my few visits to pigskin park that you are a moderator, along with Denise. :eek: How's that working out for you?

Wow... It turned into a real back slapping fest over here. Frazod's lap dog is a hero!

Personally, I found a lot of nonsense in your well researched post, Lapdog, but I wasn't willing to spend a few hours going point by point. You misrepresent my thoughts a couple of times, make a few stretches in logic a couple of other times... But the whole thing was aimed to please the conservative crowd here. It didn't matter what you said to attack me, so long as you threw in a couple of conservative leaning references, you were going to get a pat on the head from all of the conservatives here.

By the way, your point about racism and culturalism earlier... Culturalism is just a PC term for racism... a good way to soften the blow...

Any way, here's a milkbone.

Taco Bell, Taco Time, ...but no Taco John's ..at least here in Seattle...Is there Taco del mar's in K.C?

Just curious.....Joe
Getting hungry.

Good luck trying to get Taco to lighten up, Joe. He doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor.

Although he does have comical arguments....

Mighty big of you John.

Have a good evening.
LapDog

Lap Dog-

I just read your post on 5-7 listing TJ's emotional tirades.

I feel a bit responsible.

As everyone else was blistering him on the issues, I pointed out how fraudulent, contradictory and unoriginal his posts were.

I plead guilty--I was bored.

I just picked out one of my favorite liberal lures, and put a line in the water. He bit like a bottom feeding catfish, and I set the hook.

The rest was just a little line play.

His first response showed that the hook was causing a great amount of pain--and he reacted just as I believed he would.

A profanity laced poorly worded emotional tirade.

Unfortunately, he was a small fish and put up a pathetic fight, so I used the catch and release routine.

I would have cut the line, however it is one of my favorite lures.

MM, Your E-mail addy wont work?
Am I a spaz? or do you no longer have the qwest addy..?


BTW...LMAO...
"Nice fish Hank hell of a fish"!

MM,

Yikes! I've been had! I'm pretty new to this fishing stuff, or I may have seen that.


Well at least I had a good time!

LapDog

Tj - you got worked. You got beat, smacked, punked, whipped, torn, shredded, thumped, kicked and mangled.

Get yourself a sense of humor, an education, and a pair of balls before you bring this weak tripe back to our forum.

Donkey putz.

Wow. You guys are all really full of yourselves.

HC, you offered nothing this entire thread... Why would you start chirping in? Oh, I forgot... It's because that's all you have to offer.

Anyway, this thread is nothing more than back pats. You guys aren't interested in debating issues. You'd rather just make up your mind, and then offer your side, and then give fishing analogies aout your apparent "victory." Typical.

Adios... Ooops! I meant "goodbye." Didn't mean to screw with your way of life there.

TJ: what have you offered? A conviction-less play on the Carlin diatribe. Stated that there are two problems, Opportunity and Frazod and people like him.

I'd really like to understand how 'opportunity' is part of the problem, but alas you are gone now.

Lapdog identified what I saw was a major flaw in your debate...that you quickly jumped to epithets and labels rather than argue points.

I agree, however, it's probably good that you leave since you too offer nothing else up as far as debate is concerned.