I love the underdog.

Me too.

I guess when you're a Chiefs fan you have to.

Indeed.

I love this team though. As mad as I get at them.

Me too. No one around me understands why I love this team so much, but everyone who has ever really known me thinks of me when they see that logo.

I had a rough childhood, and when I had nothing, I had the Chiefs. I could always look forward to Sunday.

If they ever win it all, everyone who has ever cared for me will know, that I am happy at at that moment, and in a way, we will share it.

Hold on.

You're missing his point.

Based on your way of thinking, these guys would have NEVER seen the field to PROVE that they are the talented guys they are.

The Saints, who needed a QB like I need oxygen, RELEASED Marc Bulger.

David Garrard SAT behind a below average Byron Leftwich for years, as did Romo in Dallas.

And we've discussed ad nauseum around here that the Patriots have Mo Lewis to thank for their recent run of Lombardi Trophies. Had he not re-arranged Drew Bledsoe's internal organs, there's no telling when Brady sees the field.

3 of the 4 guys listed had the benefit of spending years as a back up.

Croyle got 1, and was thrown into the fire behind one of the worst lines in NFL history.

SAY IT AIN'T SO, MR. FAX!

AT CHIEFSPLANET?

Thank you for explaining that.

I thought it would be obvious that I wasn't comparing their stats, I was referencing their draft position and the fact that teams kept them around even though they were drafted low.

Yep, all except for the Saints/Bulger.

And it happens quite a bit.

Ravens were in the same situation, needing a QB DESPERATELY.

So they dump Derek Anderson, who gets to stick it in their ass twice a year for a division rival.

All out of impatience.

*Scratching my head*

Croyle has seen the field.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Talented players are routinely released in the NFL.
Why is this always seen as some knock on a player's ability to produce?

Yes, they did.
I'm going to ask you how to explain why Brady and Bulger were able to produce though after becoming starting QB's in their second season (like Croyle).

The real truth is all four QB's worked out because they had the requisite skills necessary to being starting QB's.

All Romo and Garrard were gifted with were roster spots.
They still had to go out and prove themselves.
And I'll be damned if after 6 starts they weren't both much more efficient than Croyle has been.

It's silly to isolate any one incident.
IF my aunt had been born with dangly parts she'd be my uncle.
The fact that Bledsoe got hurt didn't make Tom Brady into an All-World QB.
It gave him the opportunity, but again... It doesn't end there. Opportunity did not make Tom Brady.

Try 2 of the 4.

Having a year and a half to learn an offense can't be categorized as being "thrown into the fire". In fact, he sat longer than both Brady and Bulger.

Throw stats out the window once you see in black and white that they clearly earned development time. Boy I tell ya...

Yeah, they kept Brady around cause he had great hair.
Or cause they didn't wanna burn that 6th Rounder.
:rolleyes:

I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with:

1) Having excellent offensive lines.

2) Having top-tier offensive coordinators.

3) Having players at the skill positions that actually had some TALENT.


Bottom line?

Had ANY of those QB's listed played here, under these circumstances in their first full year starting, you'd be advocating kicking them to the curb, because they would have sucked.

Out loud.

yep...our line wasn't just bad, it was historically bad.

As was our offensive coordinator.

And a good 50% (or more) of our skill players.

Maybe not, but it's good enough to judge him reasonably well. I don't think a six-game sample with last year's horrific team was, but he should have a healthy Larry Johnson in the backfield with improved RB depth, at least a couple of solid targets in Bowe and Gonzalez, and a line that should be able to at least keep him upright for a couple of seconds. (As unproven as KC's line may be, and as bad as it may seem, their strength should be pass-blocking and it could actually be decent in that department; it's the run-blocking that will stink.)

If Croyle bombs this year, he's done.

Don't you mean Brodie should have lit it up with no pass protect, no running game, predictable playcalling, and questionable targets. Because damn it sure sounds like it according to some.

Romo and Bulger both stepped into great situations offensively (where it concerns offensive weapons). Brady? Not so much. I would argue that Croyle had better pass-catching options.

Concerning pass protection?
Brady was sacked 41 times his first full year as the starter.
Some great protection that was...

Bulger? 12 times in 7 games. Not as much as Croyle though (sacked 5 more times in one less contest).

Romo? Sacked 21 times in 10 games. Again... Not as often as Croyle was dumped but still a significant number.

It's not like any of these guys sat back and made sandwiches while they waited for a receiver to come open.

If having the nucleus Dallas, New England, and St. Louis had is key for Croyle to have success... He doesn't need another 10 games to prove himself. He simply won't pan out. Because we don't have anything like that 2002 St. Louis Rams team. Or the 2006 Cowboys.

I'm not sure that Brady would've.

No, being on a Super Bowl team and good Coaching* had nothing to do with Tom Bradeys success.

Croyle wasn't sacked at all in Detroit and he laid a man-sized stink nugget.
Damon Huard was sacked 4 times, count them 4, and produced 2 TD's and no interceptions with the same line, same RB, and the same staff.

My ass...

Gonzalez & Bowe combined for 2100 yards and 10 TD's.

Yep, it was a plug and play system.
Any QB could've been as successful as Brady has been.
:rolleyes:

HAHAHAAAAAA...i really didnt think that even you would try to shoot down that humorous point, but, true to form...you did.

I bet your pal also likes to take his cichlids for walks in the park...you know, for exercise & all.

I sure as hell hope Brodie proves me correct, because having to admit your right would be a Son. Of. A. Bitch.

I laughed about it myself, but I did see it with my own two eyes.
Some amazing shit...

If you are, I'll certainly say I was wrong about the guy.
I have no problems with that.

As is often the refrain around here...fair enough.

Flops can vouch for me. I'm a stand up cat.

I don't want to compare Croyle to some of the all time greats, but even the best QBs like Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young and Troy Aikman looked pretty horrible until they had some players around them. Croyle will still not have that luxery. Hopefully Gailey will have at least a little leeway so that he doesn't have to automatically call a draw on every third and 8 for the first three quarters or until the game is out of reach.