Start off buy saying you are sorry for being white. Then hire him rather he desesves the job or not. Go home feeling good because you struck a blow against racism. :thumb:

RACE WAR!!!!

I'm not following you.

You seem to be saying that a black guy interviewing with a white guy needs to act more "white" in order to get the job because of the stereotypes of blacks that white people have.

Is that correct?

do you really think 95% of people who make hiring decisions are racist?

i think talk like that is part of what sets this discussion back.

I would also venture to say that I have the exact same shot of getting in to the Good Ol' Boy network as you. None whatsoever. It's the same circle as Rock Stars and Movie Stars. You can be talented, but you better know someone to get your foot in the door. Those groups do not represent the majority of jobs that are available.

Notice the "possible" and then the (Racist) in parenthesis.
Although, we tend to assume (possible racist) until proven otherwise.

Civil suit waiting to happen. That is really wrong.

After I posted I reread your post and then I realized you were talking about if you'd have to interview with a black hiring mgr. My post was invalid.

However, my error brings up a great point, how would you feel about your chances interviewing with a black hiring mgr and you and the other (black) candidate were equally qualified?

I'd feel like I was at a disadvantage, honestly.

But qualification is only one part of it. There could always be something in the interview that won it for him and lost it for you. He could have mentioned a certain skill he had, or displayed a better sense of humor or personable qualities... no two people are really ever "equally qualified".

I would be confident that I would emerge victorious.

I truly admire your honesty.
Now that's how we feel all the time. But it's not 1 (black) to 1 (white) it's usually 1 (black) to many (whites).
That's why AA is still needed.

~ Now we're getting some where.

Why so confident?

But there are some places that whites aren't safe in at 2 or 3 in the morning. Is it racists to think that, or is it because they hear on the news of people getting shot because they took a wrong turn in the wrong part of town?

I would like to think that I am nice to everyone, but I know sometimes that when I hold open a door for a woman to pass through, she looks at me as if I was thinking that she wasn't capable of doing it herself. Sometimes people are nice just to be nice and there isn't any other motive behind and I think that really ticks some people off.

Everyone needs to take more responsiblity for their own actions and be subject to the punishment as a result of their actions.

But I am sure that in the kids house, it wasn't taught that the man was only there to keep him down. For the problem to be stopped it takes work on both sides of the issue.


I am sure there are a lot more instances of this then people would like to admit, just like the opposite though. :banghead:

I'm a very confident person.

wutamess,

How do you feel individuality comes into play, how one dresses, how one presents themselves in both verbal and non-verbal ways.

Should one be able to not hire someone because of what is perceived as improper dress and/or communication skills?

It is generally understood that there is some form of conformity in the business environment, does the hate for "uncle tom's" prevent that from happening?

I can understand how you may feel like a lot of people have jumped on you in this thread, but it has been very enlightening, so please don't take offense to my previous questions.

As of 2003, the Gallup polls have 59% of the American public in favor of AA.

Again........LMAO

I work for one of largest corporations on planet Earth. Our executive ranks are full of folks from all ethnic backgrounds. My boss is a minority. The baloney about the majority of executives being a particular race is just that - baloney. Not in my company.

Years ago I worked for a company that had a very good promotion opportunity that I was in line for. I had the experience and skills. I was told I could not have the job due to affirmative actions (regardless of the fact that I am a minority). And this was told to my face. I would not get a promotion because of my (perceived) race.

Hiring or not hiring based on race is wrong and 2 wrongs don't make a right. Ever.

It's difficult to read about the extra steps some people say they must take to get employment when my experiences over the past 30 years is so opposite of what's being reported here.

Everyone is a culmination of their own life's experiences. Mine tell me that AA is pure and simple racism that some will try to create a justification for. For us living in the real world, that simply aint gonna fly.

Do you honestly feel in your heart of hearts that 95% of white employers are possibly racist?

I'm (an old) 31... I'm already set in my ways so I never take anything on here to heart. I'm responding in order to educate or enlighten. Not to take any of this to heart.

As far as individuality. The people that aren't conforming are usually foreigners. They can be prejudged too and DO fall under the AA umbrella. If that's what you're asking.

Learn ebonics for starters.

Read #166

Actually, I'm glad you're in here... I actually envy you but do have some things to negate.

You bounced back just fine (that's why I'm envious). But the chances of that person that didn't get that opp may not have bounced back as well because of the limit of opportunities because of race.

Just because your corp is diverse doesn't mean that they all are. Especially true for a WORLD corp. We're far behind the world when it comes to race relations.

So how does one assuming that one is a racist, even though it isn't proven that they are helping the situation.

You have the equipment to be a rapist, but are you.

Women have the equipment to become prostitutes, but are all of them.


I will give anyone a chance, but if they screw it up it becomes a problem.

bk: You're taking this personal. I'm just telling you the way a minority sees white America. We're immediately skeptical until we know more about you. I guess you're stereotyped or prejudged as being racist because of our history's past.

Is that a bad assumption just because YOU aren't?

A lot of what people have to overcome is internal, not external. People can maintain thier individuality and still be successful, as long as they make up their mind they want to do so.

How is that different from someone assuming black people are possibly unable to do the job just because they're black?

I honestly am not taking it personally.

Skepticism isn't a bad thing if it is replaced, but I would agree that sometimes it is replaced, but with bad instead of good.

But that is exactly the problem with stereotypes, They at one time were based in truth and then take a long time to be reveresed or whittled down.

No offense, Man, but that's a pretty big leap (All Whites = Racist until proven otherwise).

I'm 3rd Generation Italian-American. My great grandfather came from Sicily to America (twice, actually) in the early 1900's. As you're probably aware, Italians were treated poorly and looked at as second class citizens for decades. But my family in particular had no associations with America's past - no slave owners, no Civil War, no nothing. As a family, we weren't raised to dislike (let alone hate) anyone of different ethnicity (though in all honesty, there had been a dislike of the Greeks among the older Italians).

Basically, my point is that while you may be justified in thinking that every white man is a racist because of America's past, you also may be unfairly categorizing a large portion of people who don't have a racist thought and have never had racists thoughts.

One a side note, when my parents were last in town, I took my Pop to see a Dodgers game. They just happened to be playing the Cubs. It was very nice to see two MLB ballclubs managed by Italian-Americans (Torre & Pinella). That's certainly something you wouldn't have seen 70 years ago. And while that may not have much significance to you, it's nice to see that things have changed.

Just so I'm not misinterpreted......I was turned down for a promotion that I should have received because my employer had to hire someone off the street who was black. I was told to train them. I was discriminated against because my employer did not think I was a minority. Discrimination is never the right thing to do regardless of skin color.

I have never made an issue about my ethnic background. I've never let it mean anything. (Besides, it was just too big a hassle for my particular ethnic background anyway)

When one of my kids was about 4-5 years old he became aware that some people made judgements based on anothers skin color. So one day he asks "Dad, are black people bad?" I held up a yellow crayon and a green crayon and I asked him which one was the better color. He said "Neither, they're just different".

Kids can sometimes figure it our a lot better than grown ups.

The most racist people? Old, Asian women. Holy sh*t.

" A man can't earn a decent wage in this town? Want me to shine your shoes? Want me to smile at you? Cause you definatly won't let me deal the cards, might as well call it white jack"

Heh, FYI: Piniella is of Spanish descent. :)

no, i'd keep it. I love mine to

1963 player/coach

Where I'm from, there are 0 opportunities, and people of color would probably have a much harder time getting one of the better jobs.

Where I live, there are limitless opportunities and I really believe that it makes no difference what race you are when it comes to getting a job. None.
It has everything to do with your qualifications, and experience. (unless you are Haitian)

Actually you have a much better shot at some really great jobs, if you are a Spanish speaking American, which most whites are not.

I figured he was referring to ("he" being Wutamess) were jobs that required a college degree or specific skill set. It's highly unlikely an an uneducated man would rise to the rank of CEO, let alone be a "Good Ol' Boy", unless that person started their own business and turned it into an empire. But even then I would think along the way, that person would realize that educated people of color are just as qualified as those that are white.

Generally other races that come into the U.S. seem to make there way into the work life in one way or other. I think blacks get pissed because everyone is passing them up as a whole. And blame whitey for holding them down. Truth.

From my experience, I have learned that anyone smart enough to have built a successful corporation, is not dumb enough to let race come between them, and the best opportunity for advancement, of the gold mine, that they have worked so hard to build.

Then we're in agreement because that's exactly what I implied using different words.

Yeah, in a reread, there 's no doubt, that the two statements, are essentially the same.

I was only giving an honest outlook on the situation.

So it's ok for you to have a stereo type but not us? As long as you state you and not "you"?


How do you ever figure we will over come this problem as long as it is "we" and not we?

I never said it wasn't ok for you not to stereotype us. I just said that we responsible ones have to do more work to make you (not you) see that we're not the stereotypical N in hopes of getting the position.




For clarification: The good'ol boy network is not the richest of the rich... I'm just referring to upper levels of management in corporate America. Director level & above.

Beach & Dan... I agree with your assessments that the more successful you are racism isn't really an issue (for the most part).

That is my problem with this issue. The "it is a black thing you dont understand" answer. The fact a black person can say 95% of white people hiring positions are racist untill proven otherwise is no big deal. Let me as a white guy make a statement about blacks of that nature and I would be considered a racist.

Years ago Charles Barkley was being interveiwed and a reporter asked him a stupid question. He replied "thats why I hate white people" people laughed, hell I thought it was funny. When asked about it later he chuckled and said his buddy was waiting for him and he is white he was messing with him. Let change things up a bit now instead of Barkley lets put Larry Bird in his place talking to a black reporter. That would have caused outrage with threats of boycotts and demands of him being suspended.

Take these idiots in the thread starter the fact someone got their feelings hurt much less defended his stance is a joke. I have said before it blows me away that people come to this country unable to speak english and flat broke yet with in 10 years or less have worked their way up to good jobs own homes drive nice cars. Yet some how whitey his holding the black man down.

I am sorry I aint buying it anymore that dog just dont hunt! Get the hell over it and move on with your life. You can go far in this country if you work hard and find a reason to keep moving forward instead of finding a reason to fail.

I wonder how many times the good-ol' boy network is truly to blame and how many times it is used as an excuse?

Excuse me! That is good-ol' person network!

I can't believe the sexist remarks that go on around here. :banghead:

Notice how they have all these excuses why they feel they are not accepted into the working class like the whites? Excuse this and that.

My advice to find the real problem they have is to simply get a mirror, and take a long hard look into it.

1. Phil makes jokes like that all the time and it's funny... no matter what color you are.

2. I've never accepted a handout (even from family) and have repeatedly held a stance that it's whom evers responsibility to make it hard for anyone to deny anything to them they feel they're entitled to (personal responsibility).

3. I've never once stated that "whitey" is holding anyone down/back especially with all of the opportunities MINORITIES are given today.

4. It is some sort of a black thing you wouldn't understand and I've given examples of how with my smiling while passing someone or over tipping, etc. Stereotypes are just that... Stereotypes. They're not racist or they don't make you a racist by saying I like Watermelon and chicken (which I love both). To some it's racially insensitive which I've never understood & I hate how racism is always supposedly one sided. We get a pass and you guys don't. Isn't fair and I agree.

5. Has it ever occurred to you that the people from this country already HAVE money? You think America is letting poor people from China/Africa over here to live on the system?
5b. Those same people also fall under AA so why separate them from blacks. I'm talking about AA which covers ALL MINORITIES... Not just blacks.

6. Stop assuming I'm for a hand-out. I think AA isn't an answer but it's the best answer at the given time. Now when the workplace/hiring practices level themselves out (across the country), then it can be done away with. Until then it's needed for those remote areas that need it.

7. 95% possibly racist. It's not as blatant as you think ()it's more prejudging)... It's like when you see me on the streets you immediately probably think I'm the typical black person until we talk/meet. Statistics show I'm supposed to be either in jail or dead or a dead beat father who's not with my baby mama. It's not like you'll immediately think, this guy's one of the best people I'm going to ever have a chance to know in life (which I consider myself that person).

So NO! We don't go into an interview thinking, "I'm about to meet one of Hitlers kids". We go in assuming the interviewer is white and could be a racist. Just like the interviewer is thinking, he's black or a minority and could be an attitude or a problem.

Please don't defend your stances saying... You're the best interviewer or whatever because you assume nothing. It's human nature to assume stereotypes (even if it's little) until they're broken by getting to know someone.


To deny would be... un human like.

Like its alright for black people to call each other ni**ers.

But white people can't. Something like that?

Could you imagine if this was a famous white person saying the exact same statement in the video below? There would be outrage among the black community. But in this case he's black so he 'understands' the black culture.

Different standards wouldn't you agree wutamuss?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4aLGkFpsdHo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4aLGkFpsdHo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

You finally posted something respectful (not ignorant) and worth responding too.

Yes... it's social norm to accept that blacks can call each other that word and hearing it from a white person would mean that you're racist. Stop beating the dead horse.

And please show me where there isn't rage everywhere concerning the video and comments by Jackson. His own son issued a statement condemning him. What more do you want? A protest and freedom march?

FWIW: I hate some of the marches and things that aren't justifiable.
Like I've been in numerous debates about the Sean Bell shootings with my own people.

There wouldn't have been a reason for the shooting if Sean Bell wouldn't have been in the wrong initially? At what point does the responsibility fall on him? The first officer to fire a shot was black so how in the hell can you claim racism, etc? Another one was latino or whatever. Also Bell had some gun charges before and his friends did too.

At what point do you stop defending ignorance and take responsibility and let bygones be bygones?

I'm with you guys on a lot of your issues but AA is needed.

I never said you wanted a hand out as I do not know you. The only thing I brought up was the 95% statement and the it is a black thing. As far as me and you meeting you are nails on. I throw darts at a local bar and there is a guy that hangs out and plays pool there and for a long time we never spoke. He wears hip hop style clothing (I guess that is the term) well you can most likely guess I dont dress like that. One time he was playing the juke box and it was rap music, I walked up and smiled and told him sorry man but I am going to redneck it up a bit. He laughed and said thats cool.

Later I was over playing darts and the waitress brought me a beer I did not order. I asked her why and she said Tyrone bought it for you, I asked who that was and she pointed to the hip hop guy. I walked over and thanked him and ordered him one we struck up a conversation. We talked about several things and the topic of race came up.

I told him there was a time I would have sent the beer back. He looked at me and asked why, I told him when in school we used to have riots all the time and it was white on black. I told him for a long time I hated blacks. I also said it took me a long time to put that silly shit behind me. He laughed and told me how he had grown up feeling the same way about whites. He paused and looked at me and said I was the first white guy that had ever been that honest about racism to him.

We have become pretty good friends and if he was in a scrape I would back him in a heartbeat as I am sure he would me. Yes I think most people have some level of racism and am pretty sure always will. That said as a white guy it gets a little old feeling I have to walk on egg shells and be real careful what I say or I might offend someone because of things I had nothing to do with.

It just wears on me to read crap like the thread topic and it just seems to happen so often. I believe in my heart at this point in time everyone has a chance to do well if they make good choices and work hard. I think it is time to get over it and move on and that can be a easy as buying a stranger a beer.

Blacks demean each other constantly but its a black thing only.

Now look who the ignorant one is.

Trust me. We feel the exact same way.
Why can't we all just get alone? :thumb:

From the blog:

LMAO

Well, here's where I have to draw the line.

Initially, I thought that you were implying that it's extremely difficult for non-whites to rise to the level of CEO, CFO, COB, etc. of huge multi-national corporations (that, being the "Good Ol' Boy" network). To that, I would agree (though I've stated that's true for almost anyone, regardless of race).

But if you're lowering the bar to include upper management and director level, we couldn't be in further disagreement. I know PLENTY of non-whites that are in upper management - too many to count. Countless. Hell, everyone of my wife's college friends (Chinese, Korean, Black, White, Hispanic) ALL make over $250k per year, regardless of skin color. Now granted, these are people who had extremely high grade point averages, one of the girls got her Master's from London School of Business and they live in Los Angeles, Phoenix and/or San Francisco.

If you're encountering a "glass ceiling", I think it's probably due more to the conservative nature of the area in which you live because I can assure that those types of hiring practices (the exclusion of non-whites in management positions) do not occur in the West Coast or Northeast business centers.

There's a video too:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oc1zGRUPztc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oc1zGRUPztc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Williams Aide Resigns in Language Dispute

By Yolanda Woodlee
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 27, 1999; Page B1

The director of D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams's constituent services office resigned after being accused of using a racial slur, the mayor's office said yesterday.

David Howard, head of the Office of Public Advocate, said he used the word "*****rdly" in a Jan. 15 conversation about funding with two employees.

"I used the word '*****rdly' in reference to my administration of a fund," Howard said in a written statement yesterday. "Although the word, which is defined as miserly, does not have any racial connotations, I realize that staff members present were offended by the word.

"I immediately apologized," Howard said. " . . . I would never think of making a racist remark. I regret that the word I did use offended anyone."

When Howard, who is white, noticed the reaction to his use of the word, he apologized to his three-member staff, which is made up of two blacks and another white. It is unclear which two employees he was addressing when he used the word.

Soon after the remark was uttered, the rumor mill started churning that Howard had used the word "******."

Howard said he has received numerous telephone calls since Jan. 15 from people in the community who had heard "I had made a racist remark . . . [which is] in fact unquotable here."

The Barnhard Dictionary of Etymology traces the origins of "*****rdly" to the 1300s and the words nig and nigon, meaning miser, in Middle English. It also notes possible earlier origins in languages including Old Icelandic, Old English and Middle High German. There is no mention of any racial connotation.

Howard said the rumor that he had used a racial slur "has severely compromised my effectiveness as the District's Public Advocate and in the best interest of my office, I resigned," effective Monday.

Howard is the second mayoral appointee in two weeks to quit, and his resignation comes at a time when Williams's administration is being bombarded with questions regarding race relations -- his "loyalty" to his race as well as the diversity of his staff. Williams (D) is black; Howard was one of four white men Williams appointed on the first official business day of his administration.

Five days after Williams named the senior policy advisers, a group of residents from east of the Anacostia River -- many of whom had been part of the Draft Williams Committee -- complained that the mayor had "missed a unique opportunity" to name someone who lives in Southeast Washington to his personal staff. And they questioned whether Williams would be responsive to the predominantly black and working-class communities of the city.

The issue of race continued to dog the mayor the next week, when a D.C. resident wrote an opinion piece in the Jan. 17 Washington Post questioning whether Williams is "black enough."

Williams said that he was "confused" by the opinion piece and that he had a track record of helping minorities. Williams said he recognized during his campaign that race was creating a "great divide in the city." He said his campaign was a diverse coalition that represented people across the District.

"While I'm troubled by recent news stories concerning race -- questions about whether I'm black enough or have too many advisers who are not -- I understand that they reflect a great hurt within our city," Williams said in a written statement last night. "I am committed to representing all of the people of our city and making sure my administration truly reflects the city's diversity.

"I am particularly sensitive to the need to include people that have felt excluded from the political process and governance of the city, such as residents east of the Anacostia River.

"One thing I've learned, we will never relieve the pain or heal a hurt if we refuse to talk about the cause," Williams said. "We need to get issues around race relations out in the open."

Williams said yesterday that he accepted Howard's resignation after reports that Howard had made an "inappropriate racial comment."

Howard's resignation follows that of scheduler James Day, who left after a salary dispute.

Howard served as the volunteer coordinator and office manager during Williams's mayoral campaign, overseeing 1,600 volunteers. When Howard was appointed to head the office that responds to residents' complaints about services such as trash pickup, welfare benefits and police protection, the mayor's office put out a brief biography that said Howard was "often referred to as the 'glue' that bonded everyone together." He was to be paid $58,148 a year.

According to the biography, Howard graduated from the University of Florida with a degree in economics and has managed several top restaurants in the city.

© Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company

that is supposed to say n-i-g-g-a-r-d-l-y

I'll stop on this page--don't need to read further, because the usual suspects have shown up, and given the usual responses. I totally agree with you wut. At one time I believed otherwise and had a long conversation with a black friend about this subject. We both worked for the same company, but he challenged me that this Company, this branch based in good-ole-boy Columbia SC, would've EVER hired a black for sales, had it not been for AA ( and this guy was good). Add the impetus given by the progressive Sara Lee Corp who had purchased this Regional Distributor, and things were starting to change, but it took a catalyst. I know it hasn't been a perfect solution, but the way you must hear it portrayed by many Cracks, must really be an azz-chapper.

Hey wutamess,
Here is one of your "I have a black friend" droppers. What do you think?

right on cue.

Do you have a point n00b? Who are you?

I'm so sick of race that I wish I were transparent.

</P>



:LOL:

The guy should have said ' Yea, I'm sorry............sorry your parents didn't have any children with common sense".


What a fugging joke. My money says the offended individual is trying to Sharpton his way to the top.

Can you believe these ignorant buffoons are able to interfere with business proceedings with their idiotic comments? There was no racism here, only a racist looking for racist comments in everything he hears. This is an insult to all of those who have endured real racism.
This fool is crying wolf.

The fact that this country has become so PC, so bound by minority racial complaints, that this moron's comments were actually given attention instead of being dismissed outright for the waste of breath they were speaks ill of our nation.

It's a black day for us all, I propose a black-out on all false racism charges, anyone who commits such an action should be black balled.

You just know South Park is going to have an episode about this.

Whatever it is it can't beat the Randy on Wheel of Fortune episode.

LMAO:LOL:LMAO

One of the top 10 shows of all time.

Wow. I wonder if they all cheer when a guy loses his job over having a vocabulary bigger than that of their own.

I really want to know. How is THAT statement not racist in & of itself?

Because he's a minority dummy. Jeez, get with the program.

Totally agree with you beachtribe, I was poking a stick at the n00b friendo from a few posts ago then I saw stumpy had beat me to it so I deleted.

yeah, because all white people are born with ONE MILLION DOLLARS and a lifetime supply of MONEY. we don't have to work our asses off, our parents give us everything, and we're handed CEO jobs the second we turn 18 years old. :spock:

CEO's dont do the hiring.........HR does.......

nig·gard·ly Audio Help /ˈnɪgərdli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nig-erd-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty: a *****rdly tip to a waiter.
–adverb
3. in the manner of a *****rd.


Used in a sentence.

Because she was a waitress in the bad part of town, she expected n-i-g-g-a-r-d-l-y tips.

You think you're talking to angry black man.
I don't care if you think it's racist... I'm just telling how a minority sees white people.

Me... I mingle with all races and don't care if you're racist or not.
Sorry if you're offended.

In general. You can't sit here and tell me that you don't think you have certain advantages because you're white.

On the recommendation from the hiring mgr.

You go boy.