Human life Albert. Human life.
You're not going to make an argument that Human life and Animal life are comparable. That's just a lame attempt at making me look like a hypocrite. It won't work. Because you've already conceded that Human life is much more sacred.

Honestly, I'd love it if in this world they gave the victim's families a specified time alone in the room with the guilty party to do whatever they please

I know if someone did something to any of my family members I would love to be able to slowly and painfully torture them

I don't really like you from the bike thread, but your last 2 posts actually made me question my original impressions.

Don't get mad because you are talking in circles and not making sense and people are calling you out on it, Nancy.

Yeah, to Hell with compassion.
Let's get back to original American ideas like Slavery and Land-Stealing.

I'm not talking in circles.
Human life is more valuable than Animal life.
You've already admitted as much.

This isn't even an argument.

I'd like for Micjones to address this point.

The argument is not whether or not the death penalty should exist or not. There are certainly valid arguments for both sides of this issue and he isn't likely going to be swayed from his stance.

The real question is; given that The State of Missouri does employ the death penalty as a means of punishment, why should this guy's life be spared?

I am for using the death penalty sparingly but I am for the death penalty. I also see the death penalty as justice, not deterence. Without fully researching this case, he looks like a candidate to me. Our current justice system is so slanted to protecting the accused that the victims suffer a second time. I realize that innocent people have been executed but most cases cited are many years ago when investigation and evidence were much inferior to now. With today's technology (DNA etc) the # of innocent executions are basically nil. When there are questions or uncertainty, thats what life without parole is for. And to borrow a liberal arguement for many things and use itfor deterence, if it stops even 1 murder, wouldn't it be worth it. I also feel that life without parole is more cruel and inhumane than the DP.

I can't set aside my personal feelings about the death penalty simply because the State of Missouri employs it. I believe the death penalty should not exist. That tempers my entire argument.

Punishing cold blooded murderers is the same as slavers or land stealers?

:shake::rolleyes::doh!:

I was addressing the idea that having compassion for Human life is somehow a bad thing for America.

one would think that severe punishment for crime would serve as a deterrent. although i'm not a big fan of the death penalty i'm not opposed to it. but i do have a hard time understanding the defense of someone who callously and cruelly kills someone for whatever reason save self-defense.
i know this guy didn't pull the trigger, but from reading the court records it seems that he prolly would have if he had the gonads to. i feel for him and his family, but there has to be a time where people realize there are consequences for their actions.
maybe i look at things a little different, but if i think my life would be required of me if i'm involved in a crime that involves murder or i commit one, i think i'd make a few different choices.
i could be wrong again, but it seems the coddling of criminals and the lack of severe punishment partly fuels violent crime. most thugs prolly know they could plea to manslaughter or murder two and have a chance at parole in 7 yr.

Having compassion for Human life is not a bad thing for innocent human life.

Nice sidestep.

If you want to abolish the death penalty, then by all means, do whatever is in your power as a citizen of this state to do so.

The bottom line is, the death penalty is a form of punishment in Missouri. Does this guy fit the criteria or not? Yes or no.

Who said anything about slavery and land stealing? I agree with it, if they had something to fear do you really think that they wouldn't take a second thought about it.

Lets put a face with the name. He looks like an upstanding young man to me:

Yes.

And I would argue that so do many other people who've run afoul of the law.
Now are you prepared to argue that the application of the death penalty is equitable?

Exactly what I was prying out.

Humans can't digest grass or dive to 5,000 feet. Reasoning is just another trait, and it's egotistic to presume that it's a better trait. Cattle probably laugh at us for that.

When you run out of options in an argument. Throw slavery around. Works everytime.....If your name is Sharpton.

ROFL

Another wussy liberal trying to change the subject. Believe me I am all for having compassion for human life...just not that of murderers.

What if your wife or brother or any other family member was viciously murdered? You wouldnt be spouting off all that pussy liberal rhetoric.

i remember it well.

holy shit
3 pages
someone wants a hermgasm

Again, this is a lame tactic.

I would be no more in favor of the death penalty even if it personally touched my life.

This place is like a black hole.......

Who are you to judge what this forum is like, we all have our flaws

How about slavery instead of the death penalty? Give him to the family of the victim.

Honest question answer this HONESTLY!

If a guy broke into your home and in the malee killed your wife/daughter, and then was caught by the cops and sentenced. What would you hope that sentence turned out to be?

Don't mistake these comments we are not blood thirty, I just know how I would feel. I would not want him to be alive anymore.

God judges, execution speeds up the meeting.

Beat me to it.

I think it's pretty obvious that he would want him to remain alive in prison with the possibility of new evidence coming to light that one day may set him free

Thanks for being honest.

I'm really torn on capital punishment. On one hand, I think it should be used as a deterrent to the most heinous of crimes. But we have to be 100%, absolutely sure that the accused is guilty of the crime. The state that our judicial system is in today makes me suspicious that it is possible at times. So I'm wavering a little, but in principle I still support it.

It wouldn't change my respect for human life.
I get the sentimentality card. You want to play on my emotions.
But even personal tragedy doesn't change how sacred life is for me.

You didn't answer the question, surprise surprise

What would you want his sentence to be

I want to be the boss man with a whip.

:toast:

You're right. It'd be fair for me to set a match to the Constitution because of my own personal tragedy.

Let's deny the man the opportunity to due process because he killed one of my family members.

I generally oppose the death penalty, but if it's going to be applied it should not IMO be applied to a "mere" accomplice. Giving the death penalty in such a case only encourages all of a future killer's accomplices to in turn murder every possible witness they come across (since if they are caught they are all getting the needle anyway, regardless of which one of them is the actual killer).

That said, I know nothing about the case except what was in the original post, so I'd be shocked if the inmate is as "innocent" as he claims.

Whose life. The life of the guy who was dumped in the woods, or the shit bags who put him there.

I know, I know, both. **** that, I have more respect for a dogs life than a damned body dumper.

I WOULDN'T want it to be the death penalty.

Life in prison maybe.
30 years. Depends on the circumstances and details of the case.
But surely I can give a reasonable sentence with just a hypothetical situation to work from. Boy I tell ya...

I have complete respect for human life, which is why is someone takes it, I believe their lives should be taken also.

Whether or not the death penalty is equitable considering the fact that he was only an accomplice hasn't even been argued yet. I would venture to guess that cases involving accomplices being sentenced to death are fairly rare.

Again, this goes to my argument about the death penalty being equitable in practice.

Fair enough.

How then should that be applied? The same across the board?
Should negligence that leads to accidental death be punishable by the death penalty?

How the hell did we go from the death penalty...to slavery...

and now

in two hours

Chad Pennington will be editor for WPI

Yes, cause I would feel so much better having the guy that murdered my family member alive and well and using my tax dollars to eat, sleep, and take a sh*t....boy I tell ya.

Was the man in question denied due process? How are you defining this?

I am talking about cold blood murder.

You are talking about apples and oranges. You can not compare accidental death with this situation.

Actually the death penalty proves to be more expensive than life-in-prison sentences. Try again...

i don't know him really well but i know someone on death row in another state. we were friends at one time and i have written him and he replies. at the time of his crime i hadn't talked to him in a few years. so i dont know much about that. i dont ask about it.

i can't believe he did what he did, but he knows what the price was on his deed and i think in a way he is looking forward to paying off the balance. i dont like what is coming but he deserves it. every day since that day has been found money for him. he has really changed, and i think he is a decent man today. but does he deserve mercy? i dont think he does. he has to settle up with the state for what he's done, and he has to submit justice to the people he hurt.

So the death penalty should only be applied to people who kill in cold blood?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that rule this guy out?
I thought he didn't do the killings himself?

If they hadn't proceeded to kill MORE people he would not have gotten the DP.

You really think you can predict how you'd react standing over the bloody, violated corpse of a loved one? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Now, if you have had a loved one killed tragically, and you stood over this person's body and thought, "darn, that's unfortunate, the guy who did this should probably get locked up for a couple of years," then I'll believe your statement. If not, you are full of shit, because our reactions to sudden, horrible events cannot be predicted.

Either way... The Supreme Court limits the application of the death penalty in cases like these. Where the victim fell at the hands of another person altogether.

Being put to death for simply being an accomplice is rare.

Absolutely not, but I don't think I'd be the most rational, fair person in that event either. And the law is not subject to my emotions.

Were these deaths accidental? No, they were not. I never said that the DP should ONLY be applied to those who killed in cold blood.

So that makes it ok, that he didn't kill them but watched and did nothing, then ran across the country? and killed more people?

To be fair, neither would you. Although, I feel I can make a pretty good "educated" guess. :D

Come on Philly... I've already said that the man should spend the rest of his life in prison. Why do you keep pretending that I'm arguing for him to be set free?

you think he should get a break for some reason when legally he is getting what is coming to him IMO.

he doesnt deserve a break any more than he deserves to be set free

You consider spending life in prison a break?
It'd be simpler to just be put to death.
Serving a life sentence would be much more difficult.

That is true, I appreciate your stance. I just believe differently. I know you don't want him to be set free, I guess I would just want a harsher sentence. I don't think that people like him, should have the privlege of life.

Not that he would enjoy it...

My feelings on capital punishment are this:

Human life is neither precious, nor sacred, nor automatically worthy and valued. Human life is whatever the human makes of it. And if that human chooses to spend his life murdering, raping and otherwise fucking with his fellow human beings, then his life isn't worth jack shit. We are not an endangered species, and there is no logical reason to waste resources on some irredeemable scumbag who will never contribute anything to society except pain and grief. While I have no problem with retribution and justice, I think the larger issue is simply efficient pest control.

As a society, we were much better off when capital punishment was liberally, and publicly, applied. Our current society of endless encarceration and legal wrangling is a long, pathetic exercise in failure.

Serving a life sentence is much more harsh than simply being put to death.

hence me saying...

Not that he would enjoy it.

Do you have children?

Are you sure? Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

really? do you know how many people are going to jump all over you for that one??

So certainly the fact that I prefer he deal with the harsher sentence means that I'm not soft on accomplices to murder?

I believe in both.

:clap: :toast:

Mic, you have referred to "due process" several times. How are you defining this and do you believe this person was denied due process?

I'm waiting for the point to be made gentlemen.

Then perhaps death is not the easy way out. Either way, he's going to eventually die, but maybe he'd like to delay "judgment day" for a few years?

He received a fair trial and his day in court.
I simply meant the death penalty would forever cutoff access to new evidence or law that might mitigate his sentence or set it aside altogether.

No. Closest thing I have is a Goddaughter. But what does that have to do with anything?

Ok. Thanks.

Perhaps, but it's not as though he wouldn't have time to make penance and peace with God even after being sentenced to death.

I'm not talking about his fate in the afterlife.
I'm talking about simply dealing with the human judgment he'd be faced with.
And I think we'd agree that being put to sleep is easier than rotting in prison for the rest of his life.

I figured as much.

I think your view might be different with children of your own.

For some, maybe.

What point?

them Amish did it when there kids got wiped out by that madman.

How so? What if this man had killed one of your children?

I believe YOUR view might be different.