I don't think so. Yes, civility would be to stop. But when someone comes up to you and says you can't say something, the instinct is to continue or tempers flare.

Again, there was nothing wrong with saying the word. Perhaps she was being loud. But really there's no need for a ticket there. Ever. Period.

Didn't the state of Virginia outlaw lawyers at one point? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

FAX

And hence, you mark the beginning of the erosion of rights.

Disagree. Again, as I said, the fire marshal did give her a warning and told her to curb it, at a polite manner, as the article mentioned.

She failed to heed his/her advice. So she got fined. Hell, she should be lucky that she wasn't thrown in jail for disturbing the peace. It's not like the fire marshal told her that she can't be talking about the Chiefs in the state of Texas. The fire marshal just told her to stop swearing, she she failed to do so. It's just that simple.

So, no matter what, you must concede to a public official? Seems pretty slippery there.

Again, what constitutes disturbing the peace? Obviously, it's usually enforced with fights, parties, or something like that. But in honesty, who gets to decide that and why?

Again, what is there not to follow? If you were swearing in a public place, and the public official, at first, politely told you to stop doing it, and you don't, then you are SUBJECTED to get a ticket, becuase you FAILED to follow his request.

It's not that hard to understand.

And as for disturbing the peace, as I pointed out, Disturbing the peace is a crime generally defined as the unsettling of proper order in a public space through one's actions.

This can include creating loud noise by fighting or challenging to fight, disturbing others by loud and unreasonable noise (including loud music or dog barking), or using offensive words likely to incite violence.


It's not that hard to follow. :shrug:

First of all, I wouldn't have thought a fire marshall can give a ticket for non-fire related things. That seems to be a stupid thing in and of itself.

Would it be different if it were not merely swearing?

No it's not but it's what leads to a slippery slope. And that's hard to understand.

Exactly. I know. That's so vague that it could include saying "fuck" to a group of church goers.

Yes, yes it is. And if you can't see the slope these are on, I'm sorry.

I would've recieved 2 tickets; one for the initial infraction, and one for telling the Fire Marshal to get fucked.

Bothh tickets would've ended up on the ground in pieces. F that.

This is assuming of course, that the lady wasn't asked to leave etc. If it were simply a case of the Fire Marshall approaching me issuing me a ticket for dropping an F bomb, it's a whole 'nother story.

I'm offended by a local Pastor acosting me while I'm mowing my lawn during his door-to-door crusade to inquire about my 'status' betwen God and I etc. I tell him I'm not religious etc, he proceeds to lecture me how I'm going to hell because the inivisible man apparently needs me to go to church on a particular day of the week and give him money.

Next time I need to call the fire marshall and have him ticketed.

Not really. They are sworn in law enforcement. No difference from police officers. If she wasn't swearing, then none of this would even happen, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

How can it be vague if she was being handcuffed in the parking lot, becuase she wouldn't calm down? If I was the fire marshal, I wouldn't take any chances, especially with someone who could be "potentionally" physco.

What the hell of a slope are you harping on? There is no slope, becuase she was committing by either disturbing others by loud and unreasonable noise (including loud music or dog barking), or using offensive words likely to incite violence.

Seems to be clear cut to me.

There was a time or two when I was younger, when Someone asked me to refrain from speaking a certain way, or using colorful adjectives, because of kids, or their own offense.

My response was to realise what I'd done, appologise and curb the behavior out of respect.

That's not my point. Should you concede to a public official - say fire marshall - when politically protesting?



You continue to miss the point. It's more than this instance. It's about future instances. It's about the law and how vague it is. And how there isn't a law that gives people the right NOT to be offended.

I see now. I'm talking about the big picture. You are still stuck on this one case.

There is no doubt that she should have and could have done this.

Doesn't happen that way often, Mr. Iowanian, for such a response requires character - a trait that is all too rare in these dark times.

By the way, did you read about the important, new Sasquatch discovery and related unveiling scheduled for tomorrow? What do you think?

FAX

By way of another by the way, does anyone have an answer to my question regarding the rights of a property owner and presumed offensive speech? I'm actually and sincerely curious about this.

FAX

Yes they can remove you for speech. It's along the same lines as a dress code. Actually I'm pretty sure you can be thrown out of a store for anything other than something like race or gender.

Have you SEEN Ben Franklin's mullet?

http://www.nyu.edu/public.affairs/im...Franklin-2.jpg

That's true.
But only for those of us who have decided to be straight.

:D

Check out the history of legal precedents about this very thing.





Poor, deprived generation.

I feel badly (really) that our youth honestly do not know what it was like in an era of greater respect and more diligent observance of common decency.

You're a big reason for that, unless respect and common decency includes going around falsely spouting how superior you are.

She didn't know how to use the 3 seashells.

Excellent point. And God knows there is far too much vulgarity in public (yes, I know I cuss my ass off on this BB, but I'm in a comfort zone here, not wandering down the street past a bunch of nuns and little kids). Sounds like this woman was a real scumbag. She probably needed a good ass-kicking more than a ticket.

I've just seen so many personal liberties erode during my lifetime that I'm getting rather paranoid about it. And I do figure that the Saudi Ministry of Virtue probably started with a couple of guys sitting around saying "Damned infidels, there outta be a law!"

I am not superior; but the values of our fathers are.

You honestly believe this garbage?

Please, do tell. I would like to see your precedent with respect to people having the right not to be offended. Or even the right TO be offended.




So says every generation of the next generation....

Heres another story about it from the San Antonio/Houston Chronicle:

Her picture as well:





http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/str...l-mart100.html

LA MARQUE —If all storms had a name, this one would start with the letter F.

As Tropical Storm Edouard closed in on the Texas Gulf Coast last week, a storm of a different kind was brewing inside the sporting goods section of a Wal-Mart store in La Marque. It started with the F-word. And now a 28-year-old single mother must go to court if she wants to fight a ticket for using profanity.

On Aug. 4, as local residents prepared for deteriorating weather conditions, Kathryn “Kristi” Fridge stopped at the Wal-Mart at FM 1764 and Interstate 45 near Houston with her mother and 2-year-old daughter.

Finding the batteries shelf bare, she expressed her displeasure and disbelief to her mother.

“I was like, 'Dang.' I looked at my mom and said, ‘They're all (expletive) gone,'” Fridge recalled.

Suddenly, Capt. Alfred Decker, the La Marque assistant fire marshal, appeared from around the corner, dressed in a fire department uniform.

“He said, ‘You need to watch your mouth,'” Fridge said.

Perplexed by who the man was — his badge said “fire department” — Fridge offered a scant apology.

Fridge walked away, but said the man ordered her to come back. She then protested, telling him she was having a private conversation with her mother. When the man ordered her to come to him and she refused, she said he pulled out his handcuffs.

La Marque Fire Chief Todd Zacherl said Fridge made such a scene in the Wal-Mart that Decker had no choice.

“She cussed him, she cussed everybody. By now, we have a huge group of people looking,” Zacherl said.

Fridge emphatically denied that, saying while she did curse in casual conversation with her mother, she never cursed at Decker.

“She never got nasty with him, she never cussed at him,” said Fridge's mother, Kathryn Rice of Santa Fe.

Decker ordered Fridge to come out to his car because that's where his citation book was stored, Zacherl said. Fridge eventually complied, but admits she used the offending word again when she turned to a crowd of onlookers and yelled, “Can you believe this? He's (expletive) arresting me for saying (expletive)!”

“When I got outside, I saw he was a fire marshal — I saw his car. I said, ‘You're not even a cop!' He said, ‘I can do this,'” Fridge said.

Zacherl said the assistant fire marshal handcuffed Fridge for his own safety because she was being belligerent and because he had to turn his back to get his ticket book and check on the radio if she had any arrest warrants.

Ultimately, Fridge was released and ticketed for disorderly conduct, a Class C misdemeanor. She can pay a fine or appear in court to contest the citation.

State law says the use of abusive, indecent, profane or vulgar language in a public place, which causes an “immediate breach of the peace,” meets the definition of disorderly conduct

Sad.


And where are all those people saying she was cussing up a storm to start it? She was displeased they didn't have batteries. ROFL

If the woman's account is correct, it sounds pretty fascist to me (of course, the truth is probably somewhere in between).

But if I made some casual comment like that and some douche-hiding-behind-a-badge lept out from behind a blue light special sign and told me to watch my language, honestly, my first reaction would probably be to tell him to go fuck himself.

Interesting decision:


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...tml?source=rss

“Can you believe this? He's (expletive) arresting me for saying (expletive)!”



Now that's funny.

Also, I just can't imagine myself, in front of my daughter and mother, saying "they're all f%$#ing gone". Not to suggest it's a crime, just that it's hard for me to fathom. I'd have to be way over the edge about something to use that word in front of them.

As to the article itself, I agree with frazod, the truth almost certainly lies somewhere in between.

A Tropical Storm/Hurricane bearing down on you wouldn't make you slip up?

No. Why should that make a difference? I never use that sort of language in front of my mother and we've certainly been in more stressful situations than an impending storm.

Get over it man. That's been a law for a long time. I'll assure you that if you did something like this in public, you could get approached by a law enforcement. And like I been saying on my previous posts, that article pretty much nailed what I explained. She FAILED to follow a little simple order, and when she kept refusing, then the law enforcement has no choice but to pull out the handcuffs. As Herman F**king Edwards would say, "Get over it! It's life!"

I don't know, Mr. RJ. I mean, think about the situation ... a giant, killer storm is looming. You go to Wal-Mart to procure batteries for your weather radio and your flashlight and your Mom's pacemaker. Wal-Mart is out of batteries demonstrating clearly that Wal-Mart doesn't give a flip whether your Mom lives or dies. You suddenly realize that your Mom will likely not make it through the night and that she has no life insurance and you lost your life savings due to a bad investment in a start up company specializing in swine cloning and funeral costs are at an all-time high and her will clearly states that she wishes to be interred in the really expensive copper casket with the oak handles and the off-white, silk interior and, since before they even moved here from the old country, your ancestors have an established history of returning from the dead as terrifying, disembodied ghosts and ethereal, disgusting, cytoplasmic phantasms that haunt other family members as punishment for perceived previous slights and prior discourteous acts and you know for sure that ghastly visions of a vengeful, enraged, malodorous wraith is not something you want to look forward to waking you up with hysterical, hideous shrieks and incoherent, repulsive wailings in the middle of the night for the next 40 years.

I'd say that's worth an F-word or two.

FAX

ROFL

That's what you got from the article? Are you serious?

She did follow a simple order and went about her day but the marshall called her back. That's when she got testy with him. Apparently, he wouldn't let it go.

And the law enforcement had to pull out the handcuffs for cussing? And cussing after she had stopped and started walking away? And she only said cussed because the batteries were out and he heard from another aisle?

ROFL

Pass whatever you're smoking.


EDIT:

Also, just because the law has been around forever doesn't mean it's right. There's tons of laws like that. And this one is not right. Period. Especially in light of the Oregon ruling.

The 18th Century French cure for public cussing was the guillotine. Worked pretty darn well. I guess we've relaxed the punishment some since then.

Did you guys know that the guillotine sometimes chopped off the offender's head so quickly and efficiently that the head actually lived for a while after it was removed? There are numerous reports of the head actually responding to its name and to questions and stuff for several minutes as it sort of laid there without its body attached to it.

FAX

Yes, actually I have heard such reports. Worked rather well for one Green Knight, but this was even longer ago. Wonder what happened to all the green knights? Replaced by ham, eggs, and other breakfast foods...

Wow, the nasty old hide needs to learn to check her mouth in public and around her little girl, but "Assistant fire marshal Fridge" *SNICKER* sounds like a power hungry little punk.

:LOL: Good take, Bwana.

Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. - Mark Twain

When you're a hardass like me, tickets, citations, laws, and regulations don't apply.