I have a question? Has Herm ever had Gatorade spilled on him? Other than self-inflicted spastic spillage?

I would like to see video proof of this EVER happening....

Well it goes to show..In the NFL, The guys in charge upstairs have to be capable of doing both bringing in the right players, and the right set of coaches as well.

The job of a GM is not easy.

To be fair... there was only 1 post that said that. It was by a first time poster who just signed on this month.

The rest of them were making fun of the signing... basically agreeing with your opinion that Nap Harris was a horrible FA pick-up.

Stuff along these lines.

The Kansas City Chiefs are a dumpster fire. I stole that phrase from Colin Cowherd.

Here's the thing. A lot of us think there is a specific timeline as to when a team should improve and be a contender. That thinking always can get you into trouble.

The main focus should always be on the progression of your team. It could take 5 years to build a football team or maybe 3? truth is, we don't know. But what we do know is there is no progression going on here. I like the youth movement but all of us know the coaching stinks and I have a feeling that stunts the development and growth of some of our younger players.

Bullshit.

Bull. ****ing. Shit.

Are you telling us that Tank and Turk haven't "progressed" from last year? That Pollard hasn't improved from year one to year three? That Dwayne Bowe's production has dropped off, even though he's had Bozo throwing the ball?

Are you further implying that Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Brandon Albert, Dorsey, Mike Cox, Jamaal Charles, Brad Cottom and DaJuan Morgan were bad choices that haven't played up to their potential as rookies? How about Herb Taylor? He's been a real disappointment as a 6th round choice, hasn't he?

Give me a ****ing break.

Okay so how is going to step up on our coaching staff and provide leadership for this young players?

Do you mean who?

That's the job of the position coaches.

It sure appears to me that David Gibbs has done a helluva job and Krumie's done well with with Tank & Turk, not to mention Dorsey & Johnson.

This team needs experience and more youth.

I guess you are happy with giving up 300+ yards on defense??? ROFL

2 consecutively worse seasons, after a lucky 9-7 season, with absolutely 0 signs of improvment.

The defense has taken humongo steps BACKWARDS!

What the **** good is having talent if your head coach is the champion of the R2P2 offense and the "no show" defense?

Man this is a whiny vagina thread I swear. Are these the worst Chiefs teams of all time, no they aren't. I think people want to bitch just to bitch. The Chiefs are actually building this thing right for the first freaking time. They are building through the draft and basically just started this year. Plurged the roster of old players with big contracts. Playing young guys who are actually showing improvement. Wins and losses arent the only way to show improvement. Should Peterson go, hell yes he should. Herm's biggest problem is he is too damn stubborn in his ways. If he could just grow a nut sack he could be a good coach. Honestly if you are looking at the team in the present scence then yeah we arent very good. But this team isnt being built for this year. If you look two to three years down the road, this looks to be a damn good team. We are still 1 to 2 drafts way and if we get Stafford or Bradford things look even brighter. Herm will dig his own grave bc of his stubborn style so its worthless to keep barking and barking about it. Some coach is going to get a gold mine of talent here.

Your and idiot

Is that all you got? Are you telling me now after 3 years of R2P2, despite all the warnings from Jets fans that I am idiot cause I think Herm is scared?

GFY

These Chiefs are every bit as good as the Broncos when they wore vertically striped socks.

Relax man.

Im looking at the big picture here. Im not specifically talking about players in general. Im talking about the way were going as a team. Yeah these guys like Flowers, Carr, Albert have tons of potential. But the bottomline is, the Chiefs are getting worse ever since Herm took over.

you need to look at the wins and losses. The Chiefs went from a solid 10-6 team to a 9-7 team to a 4-12 and now to a.......? who knows? but this team sure as looks worse then last year. And I do see them finishing with a worse record then last year.

The biggest disappointment, and what finally ruined me on Herm, was this defense. The defense is what he was supposed to be all about. Our D sucks ass! And it isn't the rookie corners. It's the mish-mash D line and sloppy LB play. Gunther took over coaching the LB's this year....so much said for him.

I agree 100%. This team has done nothing but get worse each year under Herm. The plays are the same, the players are the same, the coach is the same, the results are the same.

Im with you on that. I thought he'd at least turn the defense around? it has been quite the contrary. It's too much cover 2..dropping guys back all the time doesnt help your defense. they play such a soft style. even despite the fact they change players doesnt make a difference? the philosophy is poor and the playcalling is arguably the worst ive seen in years.

You're out of your ****ing mind.

Again, are you ****ING KIDDING ME???????

This 10-6 team you speak of didn't do jackshit. The starting QB AND the all-world left tackle weren't on the squad the year the Chiefs went 9-7.

Do you think they'd win even 7 games under Vermiel? I mean, most of his seasons were losers: 6-10, 8-8, 7-9. When did THOSE teams improve? Oh yeah. They didn't.

What you "need to look at" is player development. The Chiefs are essentially an expansion franchise. "You need to look at" personnel and player development. Not wins and losses. That's ludicrous.

Especially when the team is starting 10 ROOKIES.

JFC.

QFT

That 10-6 team was a good team. The reason they didn't make the playoffs that year is because the AFC was an incredibly competitve conference that year. that 10-6 team even though they didn't make the playoffs was just as good as a playoff team. Even despite not accomplish the main goal.

Ok so you're gonna say the starting Qb wasn't on that 9-7 team. Fine. I'll turn around and say Damon Huard played just as well as Trent Green when he was hurt if not better. Ok Roaf wasn't there and that a bit.

Do I think this team would win 7 games under Vermeil. absolutely. I'll take a Dick Vermeil squad over a Herm Edwards squad anyday. Ok Vermeil may not have won the bowl, but at least his teams executed, were disciplined and played an exciting brand of football. Ok Vermeil would not give you 13-3 seasons ever year, but at least his teams made progress. They went from 6-10, to 8-8 to 13-3. In 3 seasons he went from 6-10 to 13-3. I'll give the man some credit and I do miss him over this ass clown.

You need to look at player development yes you are right. And we had very good player development under Vermeil. that's all in part because he knows and has good understanding on how to work and deal with players. thats what makes him a good coach.

Ok this team has a lot of rookies fine. but all I want to get at is, these rookies aren't going to flourish properly when the coaching staff in front of them stinks. player development and good coaching have a lot to do with the progress of a player. They go hand in hand.

You don't look at the wins and losses? I'd love for you to tell that to some NFL teams. they'd laugh in your face.

Ha ha.

some of you guys need to switch to decaf, and not take the internet so seriously

I dont know about all that player development under DV, yes DV is miles ahead of Herm in terms of coaching... But DV brought in players that fit his scheme..

Hell do you remember we started the season with T-rich as running back before PH blew up in Washington?

What? Really? I thought Chiefsplanet was the be all to end all of Chiefs fandom?

I think alot of dogs get kicked and people hurt from this board.. No way you can blow up on here and not let if effect your personal life...

Your right, some people have serious angry issues....

Let preface my post here by first saying that, like you, Warpath, jsp, and others, that I agree that the premise of this thread is absolutely ****ing ridiculous.

However, with better coaching, at least along the D-Line, I think we would see a little more cosistency from Tank and Turk, rather than just flashes, and that that we would see more flashes from Dorsey.

I do think that Gibbs is doing a pretty damn good job with the secondary, but the coaching everywhere else on the defense leaves a lot to be desired.

As to Kawika, yes, he was far from being one of the best players on this team, and he isn't ever going to be a great LB, but he did produce far more consistently for a team with a better staff.

DV was just as stubborn when it came to our weaknesses.

He'd punt (and EVERYONE WATCHING in and outside the stadium knew the defense couldn't hold.) By golly, he wasn't about to quit believing in them though. Not after 4 or 44 games.

The sad, solitary, indisputable fact is that any HC after Marty pales in accomplishment to Marty. Perhaps the one HC willing to dare a face off with the King.

And before you start this Marty-lover BS to me it's more about the quest to conquer turning into the ability to over-achieve and then a slow slide into complete suck and embarassment.

There are a ton of things I love about both DV and Gun but they DIDN'T PRODUCE. They're gone, but somehow the guy that hired them keeps hanging on in the shadows like some combination of the Emperor from Star Wars and an intestinal parasitic worm...

I'm sorry?

Dick developed players?

Name 5.

I agree, cant argue that....

Marty is still a tool... LMAO

That was a good speech Rausch.

Dexter McCleon
Sammie Parker
Ryan Simms
Glen Cadrez
William Bartee

The Chiefs have a third year first rounder, a 2nd year 2nd rounder, 2nd year third rounder and first year top 5 pick on the DL. They are underachieving. The starters still don't have a single sack do they?

Tank has progressed from being invisible to showing an occassional flash. McBride has progressed from being invisible to being completely irrelevant.

Right now Taylor can't unseat McIntosh. That's a gross coaching error.

I'll go as far to say that Cottam, Morgan and Charles were good value picks, but poor choices for this team at this particular time.

Green was a better player in KC, Waters, Kennison was thought of as a lost cause, Hall, Allen, Colquitt.

Tip me, the waitress has big tits and does fine all by herself...

done...

Most of that offense was put together with a bunch of guys who were backups on other teams and they excelled when they came here to play for Vermeil.

Casey Wiegmann developed under Vermeil.

Dante Hall developed under Vermeil.

Trent Green developed under Vermeil.

Brian Waters developed under Vermeil.

Priest Holmes developed under Vermeil.

...

Ass cancer to you. Ass cancer and every bored Jehova's Witness in your area...

Green was playing some good football for a bad "Skin team, which is the reason that Martz brought him to the Rams.

He was having a monster preseason before Harrison took out his knees, and looked great every time he got a chance in STL. after he came back from the injury.

He was already developed when he came to KC.
The rest of the offense had to catch up to him.

Developing a punter?

LMAO

That isn't development.

What? I dont get it? ROFL

okay I give, then what is it?

The fact that the whole was bigger than the sum of the parts is what coaching is all about.

I don't believe that you can say that Green and Priest developed under Dick.

Martz developed Green in Washington, and the Chiefs (and Dick, by extension] reaped the rewards when he finally got his cahnce to start.

Priest had already had a couple of good seasons in an offense that he was a poor fit for, and Saunders offense just utilized his talent better.

That's taking veteran players that fit and plugging them into a designed offense.

I'm surprised he didn't try to give Vermeil credit for "developing" Willie Roaf.

That's an observation I can agree with.

To bad the whole (both offense and defense) weren't.

Exactly.

Too bad the sum of the parts only added up to half a team.

You bet your ass - developing a punter. Without that punter this team may have been winless last year and this year. He's the glue in this sad organization.

So a player basically has to have zero successful seasons, basically start all from scratch with nothing, and work under that same head coach for years in order for a developmental process to take place?

Then why did Trent have a terrible season his 1st season here? please explain.

Seriously?

WOW!

Because he was trying to throw the ball to yet another Vermeil draft pick reject, Snoop Minnis?

Because the offense Saunders implemented is one of the most complex in football, and it took the rest of the team a season to grasp it well enough for Green to be successful.

And thats what every coach does. Whether its a veteran or a rookie?

Some are more successful then doing it then others.

That can still be considered development. coaches will find players who they feel can play on his team to play for him in his system and utilize his strengths, and talents to the advantage of the system and in large part to the benefit of the player. No different then bringing out the best in a player.

Green had a solid season in '98 with the 'Skins, even while getting sacked a ton in 13 or 14 starts.

He was almost spectacular every time he took the field for the Rams in 2000.

Heres an example look at Pittsburgh. They have no problems finding the "right" linebackers to play in a 3-4. they've done it for years. And have developed some great linebackers. What are you gonna say? thats just taking veteran players and plugging them into a designed system?

At the same time theyre still playing well. Still making progress. Still making plays. They just find the "right" guys that can play in 3-4 scheme and they take advantage of the players strengths and skills, and utilize to the benefit of the team and the player. the team gets player and the player gets better.

Deloping players is taking raw talent and molding it.

If they're taking veteran players and plugging them into their system, they're not developing the players. Seriously, I don't think you know what the word develop means.

Why can't development include taking an average player and developing them into very good or great players?

Think of a player as a chunk of dough. Some guys are like the pre-baked pastry you purchase in the freezer section. All you have to do is jam them full of filling and they're pretty good. Other guys are just a bunch of raw flour and water and some shortning. They require work ("development") in order to become pastries. Other guys, of course, come out of the oven all burnt and crappy and you take those guys and you curse and yell and stuff them in the trash and use all the fans in the house to try and get the smoke and nasty smell out of the kitchen. It's kind of like that.

FAX

Let's take Priest as an example.

He'd had one 1000 yard season prior to signing in KC, but he didn't really fit in the system they ran there.

But he'd already been in the league for 4 years, his blocking and receiving skills had already been developed, and he'd already shown he was a capable RB.

Hell, Dick and Al didn't even really know what they had when they signed him.

All that happened was that he showed with his opportunities that he was the perfect fit for the system.

They didn't develop him.

He was already developed.

What about Welbourn who was a guard developing into a decent RT for the Chiefs while DV was coach?

What about Weigman developing into a better center?

To a lesser extent I'd say they developed Kawika some before he found a better fit with NY and Buffalo.

If Dick was Wellbourn's supplier, then sure, I'll give him credit there.

As for Weigman, I think that was another case of plugging in player that fit into the system better than the one he came from.

I would argue that this staff stunted Kawika's development.

Yes to all of that.

Hall and Waters were the only players that really developed in the true since under Vermeil here.

You could throw Jared Allen in there, even though he was really only drafted to be a long snapper.

And the thing is, this is the only idiot franchise that would spend a fourth round pick on a long snapper.

No shit! I can understand a difference of opinion, but what is with the name calling & hostility? Chill the F out.