And yet he's willing to get rid of him. Says a lot about how useful he must be nowadays.

This is a good post.

The answer may be that Pioli thinks Dorsey isn't worth a shit.

New regimes don't care about the past regimes players or high picks, ask Matt Leinart about that.

or it just shows Bill wants to get younger on D and free up cap space.

I tried explaining this to him earlier...but he's a drafturbator...you can't reason with him.

Worse than Herm Edwards coaching your team for 3 years?

I am drunk, and not reading all of this, but if we didn't give up very much, I don;t mind it a bit.

Maybe this is exactly what we need, a worker! Blue ****ing collar. What these young guys need, a winning attitude, and a guy who can teach a bunch of thugs and pussies a real work ethic......can't put a price on that.

I would like to see what we gave for him, but this place has gotten crazy lately. You can't have 24 year olds at every position, especially if they have never ran this system. He will be a great on field leader.

LMAO

EXACTLY right. Some of the knucklehead know-it-alls around here are just hilarious in their meltdowns.

What about last year's defense suggests that sticking to the 4-3 is a good idea. Far as I can tell, based on your current personnel, you suck at 4-3.

So why not switch to 3-4. For a while you'll no doubt suck at both as you transition, but in 2-3 years, which is the real timeline you're looking at anyway, you'll finally get good at something, presumably.

Also, I don't understand why Dorsey can't hope to succeed in the 3-4. Maybe he won't be ideal, but he should work in some form or fashion.

Because you have so little 4-3 talent it hardly matters?

Yes the chiefs must tailor their defense around the awesome talent they have in place. Oy effen Vay.
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Patience my friend. There is some talent on this team, unfortunately, most of it is on the offensive side of the ball. But the draft is coming soon and I strongly feel that Pioli will be looking at the draft to add some young defensive talent on this team.

In addition to discussing about talent, I think that was part of the whole plan when Herm Edwards took over the team?

Get rid of most of the veterans on the roster, rebuild the roster from scratch and load it with an abdunance of youth and talent. And as a consequence, the roster went from being "old" to too "young". Therefore, it also lacked veteran leadership in the process.

I think this move is a classic example in large part of understanding your teams situation and the dynamics that evolve around it.

My thinking is this trade makes picking Curry at #3 a no brainer. Vrabel could make a leadership impact, especially with the other LB's. Drafting the best one available and having Vrabel around 1-2 years teaching him makes sense.

Yup. Good point.

Tedy Bruschi-LB-Patriots Feb. 28 - 8:39 am et

Tedy Bruschi responded via email to the Boston Herald regarding the trade of longtime teammate and close friend Mike Vrabel.
"We’ve lost perhaps our best all around football player," he said. "Defense, offense, special teams, Vrabes did it all. His intelligence and on field adjustments can not be replaced. This team has just changed immensely." With Vrabel gone, Bruschi's leadership on the New England defense will become even more important.
Source: Boston Herald

Outside of the young dbacks, this defense is screaming for an identity. The existing talent is marginal at best. Tamba Hali is flat out a bust this far. Sorry, the guy's just not that good. For where he was drafted, 6-8 sacks a season is weaker than snake shit.

And I think it's safe to say that DJ is underperforming for his salary and draft position.

Dorsey, based on one season, was terrible. But he at least has upside and perhaps trade value.

Point being in this all said is SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES. The way things have been are unacceptable, and this old regime way of thinking some of you have is really quite unfortunate. THIS WILL NOT BE THE SAME TEAM. New management wants to show their merit and worth, and falling back on what was done here in the past equates to jack shit! Get used to it, because that's just the way of today's NFL.

But to suggest the 3-4 defense is not quickly becoming the best style of Defense is absurd. The confusion it creates for an opposing offense is wonderful thing to watch.

You don't play to the mistakes you made in the past or else you keep the mistake going.
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Maybe giving DJ a little bit of a guide on how to be a pro-bowl lb will help him reach his potential???? I'm not thrilled if the Chiefs gave up anything more than a 6th but they got a player who "does it the right way", is infinitely familiar with the system that may be installed, is an improvement over almost all the lb's on the roster and is a consumate team player. He will be a "coach on the field" and when he walks into the locker room wearing 3 rings I would expect that he will command a little respect. Young pups can find their way eventually but if they got a smart old hound to lead the way they'll get there faster. I'm not turning cartwheels here but I'm not ready to say dropping a late drop pick on him was the biggest mistake so far.

You and I are in complete agreement. I don't hate Vrabel; I don't think I'm smarter than Pioli; I just don't like trading for short-term benefit and/or intangibles.

I do value vet leadership but (apparently) not as much as others. I think that role could have been equally served by someone already on the squad or a free-agent; I just detest the idea of sacrificing draft picks for it. I don't know... perhaps I under-value that service :shrug:

Nothing to do with this post in particular but, Wow! I can't recall seeing you so fired up about something on here. I hope you are correct but, as of now, I don't see this as a good (or necessary) trade. In any case, I do appreciate your insider's view so, thank you.

Look at the reaction of the Pats fans. They don't like losing him one bit. It's a good pickup provided it was a late round pick that was lost.

That's all I'm saying.

Not just you- Hali sucks and needs replacing ASAP, DJ is invisible.

For one, our talent at 4-3 isn't wholly non-existent.

We ran a Cover 2 because Herm was hopelessly tied to it. A Cover 2 without a pass rush is basically a prevent defense.

We have a top 5 pick who is a Warren Sapp-like one gap penetrator, a LDE who put up 8 sacks in each of his first two years, and a SLB who, for all of his inconsistency, shows flashes of brilliance.

This team has the talent to be a good 4-3 attacking defense. Yes, we need upgrades at 2/3 LB spots and we need a right end. In the 3-4, we need upgrades everywhere.

And I've still yet to see a convincing argument that the 3-4 is an inherently better scheme than a 4-3.

But the main reason goes back to Dorsey.

If we had drafted Earl Campbell, how would people feel about splitting him out like the Rams did Marshall Faulk? A 3-4 is a complete waste of his abilities. He's not a space eater, he's a pocket collapser. He's not as tall as a guy like Richard Seymour, he's not suited to play a 3-4 end.

You don't design your entire defense around Dorsey.

How many LDEs give you more than 8 sacks a year? It's a small list. Aaron Kampman, Julius Peppers, Jevon Kearse way back in the day. I'm not saying that Hali is a pro bowl LDE, but he is an above average player at that position. No, he's not Reggie White, but defenses don't have 11 pro bowlers on them.

Johnson is again best suited as a downhill player. He led the league in TFL two years ago, it's not like he doesn't have talent. But when you are in a read and react defense, it causes you to lose your aggression. It's not a coincidence that guys like Kawika Mitchell leave and then become productive players elsewhere. Our coaching has been horrible for over a decade on the defensive side of the ball.

And I can show you the results. The average finish of the 3-4 defenses vs. the 4-3 defenses are virtually identical.

Schemes don't win games. Players do. The only reason the Ravens D was worth a shit was because of Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, and Ed Reed.

Pittsburgh's D is carried by Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton.

Those teams have an embarrassment of riches. It's the same for the old Bucs teams, 6-7 PBs on one side of the ball, or the 2000 Ravens, a 4-3 team loaded with talent.

We can't say definitively that anyone on this defense sucks until we've seen them play under a coach not named Gunther...

Players win games when they are schemes that fit their skillset.

For all those against giving up a 7th for Vrabel, just ask the Cowboys about the importance of leadership. All that talent and can't even make the playoffs. What would Vrabel say and do to T.O. inside that locker room? Wouldn't be pretty but I bet the Cowboys get their sh** straight.

Yes it sucks giving up a pick win you only had 7 to begin but if we had 10-13 picks this yr it would probably be a non-issue. More importantly I think the fact that Pioli did give up a pick with only 7 to start with says he might be tipping his hand a bit that he will attempt to trade down to get more picks and may have found a suitor for that already. Who knows?

Either or I'm glad we have some good solid leadership in Vrabel and pleeeeeeeeeeease let Pioli do his job !!!!!!!!!

Good post Amnorix!!!!!

I like the thinking behind the move for a fifth or lower. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. KC DOES sorely need defensive leadership before it can adequately determine what talent it has on that side of the ball...IMO.

Has someone set up a poll for this yet? I'd like to see where the planet weighs in as a whole.

+1

I for one am gonna be pissed if we gave up the next Kevin Robinson for Vrabel...

ROFL or michael merritt

Thanks for that shocking revelation.

ROFL

I'm was good with this the second I got the text message yesterday that it had happened.

In fact, just hours earlier I had said Pioli needs to sprinkle in some veterans to this team.

Good move IMO. :clap:

It will set this franchise back light years

for sure.:D some people just dont get it

If this were to happen, we would just have to get lucky and pick up a Dextor McCleon type player, this I believe would get us back on top.

or resign bartee, thats the ticket

I would like to see Ryan Sims come back as QB, I mean we have invested so much in him over the years.......could you imagine Ryan in the WILDCAT!!!!!!

Now I have you excited!

damn i dont know if i can even come close to that one smitty:D



oh oh kendrell bell could be the pistol back WITH sims in the shotgun

my thoughts exactly