Yea and he was suppose to be an LT and he's a giant disappointment so not really a good example.

Yeah, and if they would have taken Adrian Peterson, rather than reaching for a stiff, they would have won the Super Bowl.

Great argument.

I still remember on this very forum going "they should go Peterson here" and they took Brown and my response was something like "****ing reeruns"

This is what I love about this place.

One dumbass makes a stupid comment.

Another dumbass comes in to back him up.

Dumbass #1 thinks he's vindicated.

Dumbassery spreads.

You mean like, "hey any LB can be taught to pass rush."

That one hurt my brain.

1st Dumbass:2nd Dumbass:



PhilFree:arrow:

So, did the Cardinals draft Levi brown to play RT?

From the 2007 draft thread:

Then later,

The Cardinals always took players I really liked then they came out with that pick....to bad for them it cost them a bowl.

Beats the hell out if me.


PhilFree:arrow:

So you admittedly don't have a clue.

The answer is no.

Then people wonder why there is a lack of patience displayed in these threads.

I just went back and read through my posts on that draft thread.

I had a ****ing meltdown when we took Michael Allan over Brandon Siler. I was pretty pissed about the McBride over Kalil pick too. Then again, I liked the Medlock pick for his accuracy. :banghead:

Ha several of us wanted Siler.

I will never forget my Bernard Pollard meltdown.

I really wasn't part of the Arizona conversation. Who are you the 3rd dumbass? Hamas left that part out of his post.



PhilFree:arrow:

So if we stay at #3, don't trade down, as the roster stands today, the "studious draft experts" would take Raji?

And what do we do w/ Dorsey? Chuck him in the garbage? Seems to me we're doing worse with him than what you're bemoaning wrt Albert.

Dorsey becomes a right end in 3-4 with Raji as the nose tackle.

Why the hell do you think I was so pissed about moving to a 3-4?

So the odd man out then becomes? Hali? Tyler? McBride?

Again, we're chucking one of our high DL drafts.

Oh, I agree.... also why I see the logic in Monroe. Albert can play all along the OL.

Not that I want that to happen, but I can definitely see it as a possibility, w/ Dorsey or Tyler moved to NT.

On top of that, our LB corps SUCKS. Vrabel is a great 2-year stopgap & player coach, but other than him we have a lot of ?? / holes to fill, especially in a 3-4.

Hali and Tank will be gone, they dont fit the 3-4 at all.

Tank could play end, at least as a backup, and eventually maybe NT.

If that happens, we draft Raji and push out McBride/Tyler/Dorsey, has any other team failed as miserably drafting DL as KC?

This franchise has spent A LOT of high picks and $$ on DL, with very poor results to show for it. Exceptions exist to the rule of course (Jared Allen - but then we sent him packing. derrr)

It shows the stubborness to implement the 3-4 more than anything.

I wouldn't say it's stubbornness. Every team Pioli has worked for during his tenure in the NFL ran the 3-4, so obviously it's the scheme that he knows best and feels is superior.

Would you really want him to abandon what he knows best just because we have a few scrub players from the league's worst defense that may not be perfect fits in the defensive scheme he knows inside and out?

Past draft picks are sunk costs. Yes, it sucks we may not get optimum value for them due to the defensive switch, but you don't avoid making the switch because of poor personnel decisions in the past.

You should tell the Cards he was always their LT, because they never said so, not even the day he was drafted. From the Cards website:

"With the Cards having a few players on the roster that can be tackles, Brown’s selection gives Whisenhunt the flexibility of seeing which side his new OT can line up on. He was a left tackle at Penn State, but nothing is set in stone right now. Whisenhunt said Brown looked comfortable on both sides of the line during previous workouts. This is an issue that will be addressed at the minicamp in two weeks, the OTAs in the following month or even at training camp.

“When you talk about character, when you talk about intensity, about the physical nature and how you play a football game on the field, he certainly embodies a lot of those qualities,” Whisenhunt said. “That’s on thing that really shows on the football field when he plays, and ultimately that’s what you look for.”"

What's funny is how Mecca comes out and says something without support and all the Meccasexuals back him up as a matter of habit. They must like the view, and he the feel.

They put Levi Brown on the right side on purpose because Leinart is left-handed,therefore his blindside is the right.

Tank could fit in as a RDE, but I think you can teach him to play NT. I just don't think he's a guy that can play every single snap at that position. So he'd be good backup depth for the position.

Hali would be gone, but he was never anything beyond a rotational DE anyway.

Turk and Dorsey would likely be the DEs. By the way, Brian Johnston is also a great fit for a 3-4 alignment.

Nice try, dumbass.
bdeg summed that up perfectly.

I don't think so. He should run the defense that he thinks he can excel with.

There was never a better time to consider a 3-4 alignment. The Chiefs need a ton of players to run a 4-3 effectively, let alone a 3-4. Yes, some players might get pushed out, but filling in the pieces becomes considerably easier. Finding LBs in a 3-4 is really easy. If you find a nose tackle, the rush end becomes easier too.

While I like Dorsey, he's not a guy you build a defense around.

Was Warren Sapp?

Hmm... Interesting point. I take my statement back.

But regardless, Sapp was also surrounded by Brooks, Rice, Lynch, Ronde Barber, and an insanely good cast of defensive players. So while you're right, I stand by my point that the Chiefs are about as close to square 1 on defense as you can get. The only impact player that might have to change roles to a lesser one is Dorsey. The secondary stays the same and the only LB who deserves a starting spot, DJ, will have a strong role in a 3-4 defense too.

Moving Dorsey to a 3-4 is like putting Chris Paul in the Triangle Offense or making Randy Johnson a pitch to contact hurler.

Dorsey never performed like Randy Johnson.

I'm not saying our scheme played to his strengths, but Dorsey's no all-star we should tailor our defense around. He has potential, but there was some disagreement about where he should be played when he came out. All we can do is wait and see, I think he can be a performer in the new D.

It takes 3 years to find out what you have in a defensive tackle.

If you drafted a franchise QB to put in an offense like New England has, would you change it after one year to a smashmouth variant that ran the ball 630 times a year?

There wasn't really disagreement about where he would be played, either:

Scott Wright's report from last year:

Glenn Dorsey
Height: 6-11/2 | Weight: 297 | 40-Time: 5.05

Strengths:
Very strong and powerful...Extremely active with a non-stop motor...Outstanding quickness with a burst to close...A hard worker with terrific intangibles...Agile and changes directions well...Can penetrate and wreak havoc in the backfield...Stout at the point of attack and can hold his ground versus the run...Has long arms and plays with very good leverage...Has excellent range...Smart with nice awareness and instincts...Has a lot of experience...Versatile and has played all along the line.

Weaknesses:
Size and bulk are merely average...Timed speed is good but not great...Has dealt with some injuries and durability may be a concern...Will not be a good fit in a 3-4 scheme...Was not overly productive from a statistical standpoint...Does not get a great push...Won't physically dominate opponents...Isn't a standout pass rusher.

Notes:
Wore metal braces on his legs as a 3-year old due to severely bowed legs...Split time with future pros Claude Wroten and Kyle Williams early in his career..In '07 he won the Outland Trophy, Bronko Nagurski Award and the Lombardi Award...A player whose impact and contributions can't be judged strictly by numbers since he creates so many opportunities for his teammates...Struggled with a leg injury in 2006 and a knee injury in 2007...Might have been a Top 10 overall pick had he entered the 2007 NFL Draft after his junior season...Can be either a 3-technique or a nose tackle in a 4-3 defense...One of the best defensive tackle prospects to enter the NFL in recent years...Should be a mortal lock for the Top 5 overall picks.

He's still not a proven commodity, even in the 4-3.

Yes, that's his best fit, but there's no guarantee he'll excel. He has a chance to be good in the 3-4. It neutralizes his quickness, but we weren't using that anyway.

If we start giving up on guys after one year, we'll be 2-14 for eternity.

If you stayed in the 4-3 you draft Curry to play SAM, move DJ to Will and then draft Dunlap or Griffin next year and you are set.

I'm gonna be sick.

Big 14???

It's more giving up on the whole front 7, which I think may be necessary. Our secondary has played well the front 7 just fell apart last season.

And who's our MLB? What about the bigger(non 3-tech) tackle?

When you dont have a rush defensive end, middle linebacker or SAM backer of course your front seven is going to fall apart. Put a legit NFL starter in those positions and our front seven isnt that bad.

Well, personally, if Curry is gone at three I do a little happy dance.

You're talking 2 top 5 draft picks, if we used those on a NT and a rush backer, you'd see a near-complete defense too.

I don't know, we're talking about a 3-4 linebacker here. I think it's different if we're going to play 4-3, but why can't Curry play in a 3-4? Half the battle with a LB in a 3-4 is confusing the offense with the blitz packages. It's not like a 4-3 down lineman who has to play with his hand on the ground and develop pass rush moves. You're basically telling me you can't teach the guy to chase after the QB?

I mean he can't be held up by blockers every time of course but it's not like you're gonna be asking him to develop a bunch of Reggie White pass moves. You're gonna line him up all over the field and try to outsmart the offensive line with your blitz packages. Can he be smart enough to drop back in coverage when asked is the bigger question to me.

I mean we'd need a big DT too like Raji, but we need people all over the field. That's the same issue as on the offensive line... we've spent so many picks at these positions. It doesn't make a lot of sense to move Albert over, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to give up on guys like Tank and Dorsey, but we're going to have to do something.

Either way, people make their typical arrogant arguments, when in reality we need both a run stuffing DT, and a rush LB. When Parcells joined the Patriots he spent a #4 pick on McGinest. And Belichick spent top ten picks on guys like Seymour and Mayo. It's not an either/or thing.

Who do you want then? I don't think he was asking about your personal aerobic habits.

Your rush backer is going to face the left tackle. He better have some damn nice pass rushing moves, or he's gonna get his ass whipped.

If Curry can develop into a legit pass rusher he can be a perfect 3-4 OLB. He will be better than Suggs.

That said, the pass rushing part is the most important and hardest to develop.

That's the problem. He has no practice at the most difficult aspect of the position, whereas guys like Everette Brown have been battling left tackles for years and have developed those skills.

I don't disagree that he's a bit raw in that regard. But he's strong, fast, physical, smart, produced in college, and considered a fairly intelligent guy that will be a good leader. Sounds exactly like a Patriots LB to me.

It's true, but if Curry doesn't become a legit pass rusher he is still by all accounts going to be a very good traditional linebacker. That means he will be taken too high in the draft but not a total loss.

Moderate risk, Very high reward

Oh ya, he's a perfect Patriots ILB. But the pats would never spend the #3 on an ilb.

Yes, but we would definitely need to trade down if we were considering him. At #3 he would be a HUGE reach.

I know. But your other option is taking a DT which is also a risky proposition in the top 5, or taking a safer pick on the offensive line, which will cause half the board's brain to explode.

I guess my point is picking a top 5 DT is just about like picking a LB. You don't see it a lot. A lot of good DT's are taken in the 5-15 range, just like rush LB's.

Debatable. You woulda said the same thing last year with the pats taking Mayo at 10, no? He was considered a lower-mid 1st.

OL is out of the question

Outside of QB, I don't really see any other positions more worthy of being taken in the top 5 than those 2.

LT, DT/NT, pass rusher are my top positions besides QB. Probably CB, WR next.

Pretty much our choices as they sit now.

Eugene Monroe
B.J. Raji
Aarron Curry
Trade down

I think trading down probably makes the most sense, but we do have to be prepared if that doesn't happen. I wouldn't take a lesser deal just to move down. And a lot of people say we can't take a LB at 3, that's too high. They are probably right. So we should take a DT. Which makes no sense cause that's the same thing. DT's go in the top 5 slightly more often, and most of them have bombed. The last decade of top 5 DT's include guys like Dorsey, Dewayne Robertson, Gerard Warren, Darrell Russell, Dan Wilkinson? Guys like that. That's no better than the group of LB's in the top 5. You have more success with those guys in the 5-15 range... that's where you find guys like Sapp, Henderson, Stroud, Merriman, Ware, etc. Vince Wilfork was taken in the 20's.

I don't know think you can go by that... You just have to trust your scouting department to get the best guy in the class, ya know?

Yes I agree trading down is the best option, but you can't count on that. I don't think anyone i going to want the pick. If it happens great, if not it's either Raji or Brown. Neither one is perfect at this spot, we'll see what happens.

And if all the best players are picked in the 10-15 range WHY would you not want to reach for Brown who is rated by many to be in that range?

Orakpo would be the choice at #3.

And oh, the waiiilllllinngggggg......

He is terrible. Compare the tapes. Orakpo runs through shitty blocks, Everette Brown sheds them with authority.

Draft the Tree of Crabs or the Roe of Mun

Yeah, because he died in his prime

Every time i saw Orakpo play, he pretty much disappeared.

Just wait til you see him in the NFL.

or not(because he disappeared)

haha I was going to add "if he makes the field" but must have forgot.

Both are necessary components IF we do indeed switch to the 3-4. Most prospect rankings have these guys as second or third options at their position. The key you guys seems to have picked up on is how they are projected to play in a 3-4. Both are projected to do their best in that scheme. Again, third or fourth best at their position.... draft either one at #3 overall and heads will turn. Expect a lot of shitty draft grades.

Grades be damned. If it works best & it is what our new FO/braintrust thinks is best, so be it. So far, so good as their performance has gone thus far.

How many teams move their LOT to ROT when a lefty QB comes in?

The difference is that Albert doesn't become virtually worthless in a new scheme.

Dorsey, in a switch to a 34, doesn't have a position.

He's a smallish DT, whose athleticism and quicks should be used to shoot gaps, get penetration in the backfield and disrupt plays.

He doesn't have the size to be a space eater in the middle of a 34 to take on double teams and keep LBs clean to make plays.

He also doesn't have the ideal size (read short) to be a DE in a 34, though that is where he will probably be moved.

Albert at RT = worthless? Really?

I had not realized the right side of the OL was so insignificant. thanks for the update! :thumb:

Pretty freaking stupid is what it is.

The only high draft pick really worth a damn that we'd be chucking is Dorsey.

Hali is just a body

Tyler has the frame to add weight and be a contributor as a NT to spell whoever we pick up to start there, IMO, and McBride can play DE in 34.

Mmm hmm, so much dumber than dumping the #5 overall pick last season. Yeah, sure. Thanks for your input. No, seriously, it made us all the smarter for having read it.

I never wanted to dump Dorsey. Its Pioli and the Parcells gang that has a raging hard on for the shitty 3-4.

I didn't say that.

Albert's value doesn't diminish as LT if we switch schemes.

Of course you knew that's exactly what I mean't.
You just wanted to play dumbass.

I still the Dorsey can be productive as a RDE in a 3-4 because the OLB will lineup outside and push him inside, as if he was a 3 technique in a 4-3.