Agree 100%. People want to believe that the NFL is like Remember the Titans, where eveyone helps the team win. It's a cuthroat business and the guy under you wants your job and in turn livelyhood. Why would you want to help him take it? Unless you are a star player who continually produces, your place on a roster isn't safe.

Brett Favre was everyone's hero until he threw a fit when he couldn't get his job back.

But again, is it highly overrated by coaches and front offices? Leadership and the ability to be a good teammate are a critical part of the evaluation. You're acting like the only thing coaches pay attention to in the evaluation process is physical talent.

I guarantee that come final cut time, the average veteran who was a great teammate will outlast a slightly better veteran who refused to help anybody. And like I said earlier, mentoring is also by giving a good example, as when Brady "mentored" Cassel. Don't you think that average veterans are more likely to work their asses off and take practices much more seriously since they know full well that their jobs might be on the line?

Average veterans work hard and help others because it's their best chance at not getting fired. Especially for older veterans, it's a reason teams might keep you around for a few more years or give you one last 1-2 year contract be fore you retire. If anything, it's the superstars in their prime that are less likely to give a shit.

Veterans help the younger guys even if they don't try. Young guys learn just by watching and listening.

That is very true. I suppose it depends on what you would call teaching or mentoring.

To me, mentoring is actually talking them through things, showing them the techniques etc etc. A vet who isn't secure in his position, would probably play his hand close to his chest.

low risk, high reward signing...

that said they shouldnt be counting on him starting every game. although he did play 15 last year but before that he avged around 4-6 games the past 4 years

I heard an interesting point the other day about the difference between a mentor and a coach. They said that any new young professional needs both. In football, it has to be true too. A mentor is both a coach and an emotional crutch. A coach is a person who helps you become better at your job. A mentor is a go-to person for everything, from coaching to emotional support. Anybody who's ever worked in a job, particularly one with lots of employees, knows the feeling. There are some things you want to talk or bitch about your job, but you would never say it to your boss. There are a gazillion studies that show that young employees who aren't emotionally connected and who bottle up their anger and anxiety are more likely to hate their job and to progress slower than they should. In fact, the most popular employee satisfaction survey asks the question "do you have a best friend at work."

Veterans on a team can be coaches OR mentors, and both are invaluable for players who actually use it. And for the Vince Youngs of the world, it proves your immaturity when you refuse to use it.

If that's the case, why are there so many draft failures? Why is it that so many guys in the NFL fail to improve?

No, it goes much deeper. If you think that a 21 year old kid is going to listen to a 30 year-old vet, I think you're sadly mistaken. Individual talent and determination wins out, every time. It's not up to a "Vet" to "teach" a younger player how to play football or prepare. I mean, come on! These guys have been playing football for more than a decade in most cases (and often times, much longer than that).

If guys learned by "watching and listening", why did Dwayne Bowe have 13 drops last year? Are you implying that he didn't "watch and listen" to Gonzalez enough?

O.
Ver.
Rate.
D.

A Monster season playing special teams why Mike Brown makes plays being a starter with the Chiefs :)

I see you're high as a kite on this topic too. :D

I haven't seen any contract details but, assuming they didn't break the bank for him or give him a long-term deal, I don't see how you can be down on this move. Low risk, high reward. Worst thing that happens is he continues to have durability problems, and if so then he's gone. He's better than what you have, no? So any play he's out on the field for, you're better off, whether he play all 16 games, 8 games, 4 games, whatever. It's all about the contract: if there's no danger, what the hell, sign 450 old or injured guys if you want and bring 'em to camp. The ones who work out, work out.

Actually it does. You think it's a coincodence that the guys I mentioned are either great players or HoF type players, and that those guys tried to learn as much as they could from a mentor?

I already noted, Sapp was in the last days of his career and he said the guys he was trying to help didn't care. So that pretty much blows the "If I were Mike Brown" bit out the water.

I said it before, the young guys that want to become great players will use these vets to their advantage. The ones that don't, won't, and in a few years they will be out of the league. If you look at every great player most of them always give credit to a former pro for helping them. Brady even did so with Bledsoe MANY times. Priest Holmes credited Ernest Byner all the time for helping him become a better player. I could go on and on and on. Generally the great players learned from someone because it's damned difficult to become great without soaking up that knowledge from them. So basically your line that "it's a myth" is BS. These are exceptions. It's pretty common.

Sure. All a player needs is a mentor to be successful. If he doesn't have one, he won't be successful.

Right...

:rolleyes:

I'm SURE that the reason they fail at a high rate is because mentors sent them to the bottom. Christ. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that not all college players are talented enough or motivated enough. Or the fact that each year, over 400 players are competing for a handful of starting jobs and a fraction of roster spots.

Let me get this straight. You're a young QB like Matt Cassel entering the Pats' organization. You would be that much of an arrogant punk that you would never once look over to Tom Brady and say "hey, that guy is the best in the business. Maybe I should figure out how he became so good"? That sounds that ridiculous to you? Or you're a star like Tony G dying to win a Super Bowl--you're not going to see Dwayne Bowe run a poor route and show him how to run them better?

You obviously misunderestimate human nature. In my work experience, there are tons of older people eager and anxious to help younger people. And there are tons of younger people that want to learn from the best. That's why most large corporations have mentorship programs. I can't believe that in a team sport you find it so hard to believe that there are players who want to help others to benefit the team.

NOBODY has said that. Stop being ridiculous.

Not all young players will take advantage of mentors. Not all mentors will help young players. But the young players that do will usually get better. You obviously can't improve a lump of shit. But if you've got a talented but inconsistent starter, a mentor can help him become a talented, consistent starter.

Again, tell me if you honestly think Matt Cassel would have developed into the absolute practice fanatic and film room fiend that he is without Tom Brady.

Gotta say Dane, you are being a bit obtuse on this subject.

I know

:D

OK then.

Carry on.

bI think the point some are trying to make is that there are two major things that aid a players development...coaching and example...if you get to see how a hall of famer, or pro bowl type player prepares, it gives you a better idea of what you need to do to get similar results.

Moss had Carter
Champ had Deion

Kind of ironic but dont you remember all the mentoring Priest and TRich gave LJ? That taught him patience and how to use your blockers at this level.

The type of veteran has to play the biggest role on if the veteran is properly mentoring.

I would be willing to bet part of being a Patriot is having to dp theae types of things and that is a big reason why they continue to play well through rashes of injuries

*cough cough cough*

I don't recall asking you to turn your head, Fred.:p

The Eric Berry-Taylor Mays watch has only begun.

YES! Three weeks in to pre season; LET THE DRAFT WATCH BEGIN!!!!

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...uy_suicide.gif

It's gonna be a fierce battle for a top 5 pick with Oakland, Denver, Detroit, St. Louis and Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced we can measure up this year.

LMAO

My KINGDOM for 6th overall. Unless they can get the rookie contracts restructured.

Hey just think we could waste three top five picks in a row.

Oh goodie

It won't be a total waste. Dorsey and Jackson will be absorbing blockers for years. Our next top five pick will be a right tackle.

Dorsey should be traded to a team running a 4-3

When I suggested the Chiefs should trade Dorsey people got pissed.

did you misspell "McGee"?

that has nothing to do with your opinion.

it has everything to do with you being a complete douche-bag.

"People" are ****ing stupid, Bill.

The sooner you realize that and deal with it, the sooner you'll be more likely to express your true opinion.

Butthurt FTW

I can't wait till next year...there will be 500 threads about how we need to draft Russel Okung, Trent Williams, Bryan Bulaga or any other OT with a high grade.

Pretty sure I already did. Dorsey is a bust playing in this defense he won't do shit and the Chiefs are better off trading him while he still has some value.

And it will be another offseason of "Dane, Mecca, OTWP, think XXXX and **** THEM".

Can't wait.

:p

Oh great, now the Guardian is gonna show up and tell us about JUCO football and shit because of your post.

I can't believe he's never told us any stories!!!!!

I keep asking him and I'll continue to ask him until he gives in.

Was he the water boy for a juco team?

I really don't see any use for him. This is going to be another top pick down the tubes. Tough to swallow.

He acts like he was a JUCO all star...and that he knows all of this bullshit, it's so hilarious.

He also told us all about MMA and how he knows how to fight......I bet he's training about like Napoleon Dynamites brother.

He was a JuCo Superstar!!!

o:-)

funny how you can prove me right with such little effort

How does suggesting trading Dorsey make him a douchebag?

Becuz ESPN said Dorsey was a good player.

Don't worry Clancy Pendergast knows how to get the most out of his players :spock:

oh, it has nothing to do with this thread or one specific comment.

Yea like most on here he's just a doucherocket with little substance. It's probably all the stuff I said about KU being overrated in football.

College football season is the best on here.

People will rail USC repeatedly to me and I'm like...uh you're a KU fan you aren't even on the same stratosphere.

But 2007 Ku was good! It is funny because I'm a Nebraska game so they all bring up the game from 2 years ago and ramble about how Nebraska hasn't been good since the 90's and how tradition doesn't matter.

yeah, cocky badwagoners are FUN!

you are from KCMO. What reason do you have for being a USC fan?

Cause see when I was a child I had no desire to watch the Big 8 run the option...and USC was the team I really enjoyed, mainly because of Keyshawn.

ROFLROFLROFL Exchange of the day!!!! That was awesome.

I'd rather bring up a game from 2 years ago than a game from 20 years ago.

The game from 2 years ago has little relevance compared to 30 years of domination. The last time your shitty football team won in Lincoln Lyndon Johnson was president. So 1 fluke season doesn't mean shit.

I think the bottom line to college ball is when your program hasn't been relevant in history until now and they're still only marginally relevant you shouldn't shit talk programs with great tradition.

I don't shit talk KU basketball.

typical.


"Look at us 20 years ago!!!!11111eleventy11"

except KU basketball is STILL relevant.

I'm not coming in here saying KU is king-shit, in fact I never mentioned KU football at all.

But now that you mention it - its kinda sad when a "great tradition program" like Nebraska has let themselves slide so far that they have to fight with traditional doormats for the division title.

What are you talking about dude? KU lost to Bucknell a few years ago and it was 20 years before KU won another title. Nebraska hasn't been that bad and the program improved last year. It's funny how obvious it is that KU fans don't know shit about football.

its funny how clueless you are about sports in general.


KU followed losses to Bucknell and Bradley with a National Championship.

When has nebraska been a significant force in any major (non-women's) sport?

comparing apples to oranges. Nebraska was in the title game 7 years and you claim they suck yet they tied for the Big 12 North last year and a few years ago they were in the Big 12 title game. They still are in the top 25 recruiting every year. You have no idea what the **** you are talking about which is typical for a bandwagon fan.

yeah...I'm clearly a badwagon fan.

keep living in the 90's, dipshit.

Yet, you say THIS about KU basketball:

7 years ago, KU BB was also in the title game. Except, in those other years, we didn't just tie for the Big 12 (not just the Big 12 North, if such a thing even existed) title, we won it multiple times.

I'll give you that KU football isn't the best program in the world, but talking shit on KU basketball is pretty ****ing reeruned right now.

We can talk about the 2000's too. Nebraska has double the wins this decade then KU, Made more national championships this decade then KU has in it's whole history, More winning seasons, oh and the all time record between the schools? Nebraska is 89-23.

How was I talking shit? I pointed out how they lost to Bucnkell came back and won the national title. Just becuz a school with tradition doesn't win a title for a few years doesn't mean they are done.

Great; THIS shit again.

I know these KU bundle of stickss just won't admit they don't know shit.

See it's garbage like this that makes me want to avoid internet message boards altogether. These forums were meant to join fans together to enjoy friendly discussion on a common interest, yet everywhere you turn it's just people arguing like ****ing 12 year olds about stupid shit. Typically about grammar, spelling, or something even more reeruned. I have no problem with a little debate when it's called for, but jesus it's out of hand. It's on every message board on the internet, in just about every thread. Even if someone makes a simple rational comment or asks a question about something, sure as shit a douchebag comes marching in with some smart ass reply. There's a lot of cool Chiefs fans here, but there are way too many a-holes to weed through in every thread. Sorry but I'm done with this site, and message boards in general.

Will somebody do the Honors? I'm too ****in' tired. Powers Booth! Front and center:

Holy shit!!!The zoomanity!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Bye. You'll be missed.

Well, probably not.

Jeebus, whiney baby....

I think someone takes life a bit too seriously.

You have a really cool name... shame to see it go dormant.

We hardly knew ye...

Go fuq yourself with a rainbow colored spirit stick.

I don't think he misspelled it, but I know you did.

Don't be jealous bundle of sticks. Not everyone can sit on a message board and talk about how they know something yet never had the sack to actually play at ANY level other than high school bench warmer. I think you have some xbox360 calling you don't you kid?

It would seem that he accomplished his goal of bringing harmony, if only for a moment, to this BB. I, for one, applaud his sacrifice.

Yeah, Mecca; don't you know Greatness when you see it?!?!?

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...UADUANCARD.png

I'm really starting to believe that Guardian, and TFG are the same person. Anyway we could find out?