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-   -   Chiefs Replacing Gonzalez proving to be a chore in K.C. (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=210255)

RustShack 07-12-2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 5896844)
I can't understand the advantage in waiting to do so...
His court date is in September IIRC.

It's not like he'll have a real idea of what Burress' fate will be prior to the season starting.

If he'd brought him in 2 months ago he'd be very well conditioned, partially acclimated to the offense, AND in the beginning stages of developing some chemistry with his QB.

Because like the rest of the NFL, they don't want to sign someone unless they know he can play. If Burress is smart, he will at least be keeping in shape.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-12-2009 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 5896844)
I can't understand the advantage in waiting to do so...
His court date is in September IIRC.

It's not like he'll have a real idea of what Burress' fate will be prior to the season starting.

If he'd brought him in 2 months ago he'd be very well conditioned, partially acclimated to the offense, AND in the beginning stages of developing some chemistry with his QB.

Based on what we've seen so far, I'd say Jones is more of a "Pioli guy" than Burress.
And if Burress gets cleared, I'll bet the farm he goes "across town" to Rex Ryan.

Saccopoo 07-12-2009 11:53 PM

Sweet Baby Jesus! This could be the beginning of my 2010 draft dream scenario, where the Chiefs take Jermaine Gresham!

Mecca 07-12-2009 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccogoo (Post 5896995)
Sweet Baby Jesus! This could be the beginning of my 2010 draft dream scenario, where the Chiefs take Jermaine Gresham!

Oh great a high pick TE.

Micjones 07-12-2009 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5896850)
Because like the rest of the NFL, they don't want to sign someone unless they know he can play. If Burress is smart, he will at least be keeping in shape.

They'd have every opportunity to work Burress out and give him a physical before they ever even presented a contract. You aren't going to get a good read on a player without bringing him in. Waiting doesn't afford you any information on him either.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5897002)
Oh great a high pick TE.

It's been done here before + high pick DE = count nothing out.

Mecca 07-13-2009 12:11 AM

If Burress is smart he'll sign with the Jets...perfect fit.

JohnnyV13 07-13-2009 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5895985)
I can't believe how much value people here give the TE position.

Its not exactly like Gonzalez is a run of the mill tight end. He's a possession receiver and a very good one, which is clearly a valuable offensive commodity.

We DO need to replace Gonzalez, but not necessarily with a tight end.

For all the people who try to dismiss Gonzalez's value by saying "how many playoff games did we win with him", well...how many playoff games did we win with Willie Roaf? Obviously, left tackle is a meaningless position.

How many playoff games did we win with Priest Holmes? Obviously, a multi-faceted running back like Holmes is meaningless.

How many super bowls did we win with Derrick Thomas? Obviously, a pass rushing linebacker is worthless.

How many playoff games did James Hasty win in KC? Obviously, a physical shut down corner is irrelevant to our playoff success.

How many playoff games did we win with Deron Cherry? Obviously a useless player that wasn't really meaningful to building a championship squad.

Championship teams can be built in many ways. Priest Holmes and Tony Gonazlez were the two weapons that drove our dominant offenses during the frist half of the millenium. Holmes and Gonzalez reallly strained the linebackers and safeties, which opened things up for mediocre receivers like Eddie Kennison to make plays. An unusual way to build a dominant offense, but certainly it worked. That offense was good enough to win a championship, but we didn't develop the other side of the ball.

Hell, the "Vermeil strategy" failed not due to philosophy, but due to bad drafting.

The fact is, Vermeil had an incredible year and a half run of offensive talent acquisition.

He added Trent Green, Eddie Kennison, Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, and Casey Weigman within a very short span of time. The only real mistake was WR Johnny Morton. Most of those guys were spare parts, only Roaf was a starter.

If we had any kind of reasonable drafting, the "Vermeil plan" would have worked. About the only useful players drafted under Vermeil were LJ and Jared Allen (plus maybe Scott Fujita).

RustShack 07-13-2009 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 (Post 5897055)
We DO need to replace Gonzalez, but not necessarily with a tight end.

Willie Roaf? Obviously, left tackle is a meaningless position.

How many playoff games did we win with Priest Holmes? Obviously, a multi-faceted running back like Holmes is meaningless.

How many super bowls did we win with Derrick Thomas? Obviously, a pass rushing linebacker is worthless.

How many playoff games did James Hasty win in KC? Obviously, a physical shut down corner is irrelevant to our playoff success.

How many playoff games did we win with Deron Cherry? Obviously a useless player that wasn't really meaningful to building a championship squad

We did replace our possession receiver TE with a possession receiver WR. Our team still has those sure hands in the middle now. As for your statements about the positions, it was said the last team with a premier TE was Sharpe and you go ahead and say other positions suck because the Chiefs haven't done it.. sad

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5897034)
If Burress is smart he'll sign with the Jets...perfect fit.

They definitely want him. The fans aren't against it either.

Just Passin' By 07-13-2009 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5896827)
Maybe, just maybe Pioli plans on signing Burress.

Burress antagonized two great NFL organizations enough that they both let him go. He's a pain in the ass. Pioli isn't going to bring that sort of garbage into the fold. He can't change the culture of the team for the better if he brings in turds like Buress.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5897204)
Burress antagonized two great NFL organizations enough that they both let him go. He's a pain in the ass. Pioli isn't going to bring that sort of garbage into the fold. He can't change the culture of the team for the better if he brings in turds like Buress.

Receivers are by and large prima donnas. You're going to get The Stupid in some way, shape, or form to varying degrees.

There's no getting around this.

Rooster 07-13-2009 10:20 AM

Cottam needs to change his ghey facemask. It would help him catch the ball.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 5897508)
Cottam needs to change his ghey facemask. It would help him catch the ball.

Worthless without...you know.:D

Buehler445 07-13-2009 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots (Post 5897476)
Receivers are by and large prima donnas. You're going to get The Stupid in some way, shape, or form to varying degrees.

There's no getting around this.

There are lots of receivers who aren't bitches. Elite ones even.

Wayne
Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Welker
Calvin Johnson
Bowe (hopefully)
Roddy White (except when he was bitching about Vick, but that's acceptable)
Greg Jennings

I'm sure I'm missing some. You don't have to be a dumb **** to be a WR. It isn't prerequisite.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 5897518)
There are lots of receivers who aren't bitches. Elite ones even.

Wayne
Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Welker
Calvin Johnson
Bowe (hopefully)
Roddy White (except when he was bitching about Vick, but that's acceptable)
Greg Jennings

I'm sure I'm missing some. You don't have to be a dumb **** to be a WR. It isn't prerequisite.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm willing to bet there are two bitches for every one name on that list.

Rooster 07-13-2009 10:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots (Post 5897517)
Worthless without...you know.:D

It just bugs me. :)

MVChiefFan 07-13-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster (Post 5897569)
It just bugs me. :)

That's that "Revolution" design...I hate it too.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-13-2009 11:20 AM

Meh. It's not that bad:

http://www.nflfootballhelmetshop.com/kacich2.html

chiefzilla1501 07-13-2009 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5897065)
We did replace our possession receiver TE with a possession receiver WR. Our team still has those sure hands in the middle now. As for your statements about the positions, it was said the last team with a premier TE was Sharpe and you go ahead and say other positions suck because the Chiefs haven't done it.. sad

Engram at this stage of his career is a replacement, but he is a major downgrade. They are two entirely different players. Engram is a sure-handed option who runs crisp routes and will throw anything you throw at him, while Gonzalez is a crisp route runner, gigantic target, and a guy who can make plays happen. Gonzalez is a guy who draws double- and triple-teams; Engram is a guy who typically benefits off of other receivers.

I like Engram in a Ricky Proehl type role, but at his age, he is not even close to the calibre of player Gonzalez is.

chiefzilla1501 07-13-2009 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5896769)
If you can't make it as a WR in Jacksonville you are not good.

I disagree. I think Jones and Reggie Williams are maybe worth a look.

I'm more concerned about players who show a consistent pattern of bad behavior, like Koren Robinson. Williams falls into that category for sure, but Jones really doesn't. Jones was actually becoming Garrard's favorite target before he was suspended. If the Chiefs can get him motivated, he could be a pretty reliable #2 option. What do the Chiefs really have to lose at this point? They can't rely on Mark Bradley to be their #2 receiver when he can't stay on the field.

I"ve also believed that Jacksonville has one of the most reeruned offenses in football, so maybe he could benefit from a different system.

acesn8s 07-14-2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 5896723)
Losing Tony G will be huge for the Chiefs-pretty dumb move on their part.

I disagree. I think it forces the rest of the team to step up. I think we will be better for it.

acesn8s 07-14-2009 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5897887)
I"ve also believed that Jacksonville has one of the most reeruned offenses in football, so maybe he could benefit from a different system.

Definitely an offense that performs under their ability.

HemiEd 07-15-2009 10:00 AM

Oh no! Next you are going to tell me, we don't have a pro bowl full back, or pro bowl guard!

We are so ****ed!

TEX 07-15-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acesn8s (Post 5900731)
I disagree. I think it forces the rest of the team to step up. I think we will be better for it.

Shit is still shit even if it steps up...

Hog's Gone Fishin 09-30-2009 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 5895980)
You're right, a 2nd round draft pick has more value then a tight end. Second round picks are gold in the NFL. They are starters who are much cheaper then first round picks. Engram will fill in for Gonzalez on third downs and LJ will fill in for Gonzalez in the red zone.


Gee, I guess you were mistaken!

WildTurkey 09-30-2009 06:44 PM

Oh we did replace him.... we have his holiness

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...e-benedict.jpg

GoHuge 09-30-2009 07:05 PM

Who is this Tony Gonzalez you people speak of?

Mr_Tomahawk 09-30-2009 07:06 PM

...Patrick Swayze?


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