There ya go...

Look here's the truth, I don't think Cassel even at his best will ever be better than league average, that isn't what I want our franchise player to be.

Do I think the Chiefs put him in good spots no not really...the Chiefs have a head coach who frankly looks completely inept for the most part. If there was ever someone that looked in over their head it's Todd Haley.

Well on my part I was listening to the radio and Dawson wasn't convening that he was playing bad.

Like I pointed out earlier no drops and his line is 31/40 for probably over 400 yds just by looking at that stat line it looks pretty good.

I went to the game, and honestly had no idea Cassel threw for 300 yards. I was guessing around 260 or so until I heard it on the radio.

I wouldn't say he blew my mind with his astonishing play today; but I definitely think he played his role very well(aside from some shitty throws).

Most of the guys responsible for that shit aren't a part of this teams future, Cassel is. It seems like a waste of time to bitch about guys that we know are going to be replaced.

Absolutely he does. Same was said about Trent Green after his first season.

If Haley does the same thing to the WR Corp next season that he did this season, I will rip my hair out. They need to re-sign Chris Chambers and sign a slot WR early. Other than that, get the F'n O Line set as early as possible in the offseason.

Consistency is ABSOLUTE KEY this offseason.
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oh and just for you dirk, 5 or 6 of those drops would have been either a first down or a td. just like you said the other day
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Trent Green was never as wildly inconsistent as Cassel is, he threw a ton of picks that first year because he threw to the proper spot and the WR wasn't there...Cassel's mistakes aren't like that.

Green was an accurate passer, Cassel is not.

how do you know they were to the proper spot? were you in on the playcalling and practices back then?
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I never saw Green throw a pass that looked like a punt.

If you ask most fans from that era, they feel that Dawson was largely the beneficiary of the best WR in the game at the time. And most would say that Otis Taylor should have been in the HOF long before Len Dawson. The difference is that Len Dawson wasn't a loud mouth proud black man.

Oh for the love of christ, nevermind.

Talking to Jason is seriously like trying to reason with my friends 1 year old.

Yep totally agree. Last year Cassel had 63% accuracy this year it is 54%. Which one is the real Matt Cassel? Time will only tell.

Yeah when I heard after the game that coming out of the 3rd quarter they had 3 straight 3 and outs caused by drops on 3rd down that would have resulted in 1st downs I immediately thought of OTW. I got a little chuckle over that.

And Green worked with WR's far worse than this shit we have now.

I'm sorry Bowe and Chambers are both light years better than Eddie Kennison.

Because we have the benefit of knowing the entire trajectory of Green's career and understanding the offensive system he was asked to command. He didn't develop as a Chief.

He was an accurate passer. Period.

Cassel is not.

But at least he had an offseason and the season to work with them. We are playing musical chairs at the WR position.

I saw plenty of wobbling ducks by Trent Green.

It's hilarious how people are NOW going back on TrINT Green and saying it was ALL the WR's fault for not running the right routes. What a crock of shit.

Most on this board were ready to hang Green from a pole after a season and a half.
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Yeah, well then I'll bitch about Bowe being good ol' stone-hands today, or the coaching staff deciding to throw O'Connell and Vrabel out there instead of Cottam and Studebaker.

Clancy Pendergast deserves the brunt of Chief's fan collective wrath more than anyone. And our ST coach. ****ing buffoons.

Matt Cassel doesn't deserve a pat on the back and high-fives because he did what was expected of him. He made plays. He orchestrated the offense for the most part. He made some good throws. He made some bad throws. He was definitely more of a positive impact on the field than a negative...which is a vastly different story from the last two weeks.

I'm not saying he played flawlessly today; and even if he would have, we still would have lost. That's how bad our team is. I'm fairly confident Cassel could have went 29/31 and never made any bad throws and we'd still lose it because apparently Jerome Harrison borrowed Jim Brown's jockstrap before the game. It's ****ing sickening.

Gonzalez was definitely not a weapon for Trent Green.
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goox answer and thanks for actually having something to say. what i will say to that is we know that NOW IN HINDSIGHT. correct?
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And, in Cassel's defense, shoving scrubs like Lance ****ing Long down his throat.

It would help if our HC wasn't dumb as ****, no question.

No shit where are all the fire Clancy Dumbass threads? That guy sucks balls and I never wanted him here because I knew he would be bad.

Even at the time, though, Sauto, we knew that Green was trying to lead a much more complicated offensive system.

And it depends upon whether or not you believed Grandpa's worthless ass; he consistently defended Green and essentially blamed the WRs.

Meanwhile, our douche of a HC doesn't even emphasize the lone receiving weapon that we do have.

Look I've said numerous times this coaching staff is awful but all I'm ever met with is "Haley is a good coach he just needs time"

The people who are calling for more patience with Haley should be advocating for Herm to be the assistant HC, too, because the former could actually learn from the latter.

It's that ****ing bad.

Did he make any stupid decisions today?

well when bowe is so inconsistent can you blame them for not emphasizing him more?


and how did you feel about green after his first year
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Kennison wasn't there the first year; it was C. Thomas and "Snoop" Minnis.

Green had an Oline, but the receivers were worse; Cassel has no Oline, but the receivers (Bowe and Chambers) are ok/good. Neither Green nor Cassel had/have an arm worth writing home about but I don't remember Green ever throwing a punt (as Cassel often does). There is no comparison at all when speaking of accuracy; Green was highly accurate, Cassel is not at all accurate.

other than letting pendergast through the gates?? save that i cant think of any right off the top
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Matt Cassel's play was the least of the Chiefs problems today. The offensive line protected very well. I thought Alleman was an upgrade over Waters and Richardson has really developed in practice as a good option at right tackle. It may have been the opponent but he looked much better than O'Callaghan.

The Chiefs need a least two reliable receivers and consistent blocking before Cassel can be accurately judged. One week (or two in a row), he looks like total ass, then follows it up with a decent performance like today. If his receivers hadn't dropped half of everything thrown their way, it may have been a different day.

Oh, and I sure am glad that Cottam has been sitting on the bench all year.

:rolleyes:

O'Connell's a joke. Two seven round picks for THAT guy?

This is spot on. Cassel had maybe his best game of the year today. Too many dropped passes, too many missed tackles on defense.

You can say that now....but most were not saying that within the first year of "TrINT" Green's first year and a half with Kansas City.

Wow how posters forget...
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b rich did look good today, i was soooo happy
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Yeah, the 2 minute drill before the end of the first half, for starters.

Secondly, kicking it over and over and over to Cribbs.

I could go on, but I'm not going to waste my time of a shitty-assed coach who refuses to acknowledge the problem is himself.

Uh, yes he was.

He joined the Chiefs in 2001, played in 5 games and had 322 yards receiving.

He's also starting to look at the pass rush instead of down field. He scrambled out of the pocket numerous times when the pass protection was adequate.

Green had absolute shit for receivers. Other than Gonzalez and Holmes, he had nobody to throw to.

Thanks I didn't get to watch and only listened to the game for about a half. Definitely stupid to kick to Cribs they should have just pooched it every time.

Unsure. I thought he was accurate but working with crap.

I think Cassel is inaccurate and working with crap. In short, he has the hallmarks of the backup QB that he's always been.

That's true, but at the same time, Cassel had made several very "questionable" decision making. That INT that Brown LB had right in his hands, and he just had the "I can't believe he threw it to me" look before dropping it.

Cassel had thrown good passes, but at the same time, he was way behind of some of his passes as well.

No, I actually agree with the assertion that Lenny was a game manager.

And outstanding game manager, to be sure, but a game manager nontheless.

Those Chiefs won because of defense, a great O-Line, and clearly, the most underrated WR ever.

I am not of the opinion, however, that a game manager is a bad thing.

I actually believe that Cassel has the tools to be a pretty good game manager when he has some talent to work with.

His accuracy in New England was not an issue, so I'm not overly concerned with that.

I think TRR is right, some of that is on the talent around him.

I do think he has inferior arm strength, but that isn't nearly the issue that many think it is.

My biggest concern with Cassel is lack of pocket presense and poor decision making.

Those have to be worked out in order for him to really succeed.

His decision making pisses me off more than antthing.

My biggest bitch about Green was trading a 1st for a guy that was scheduled to be a free-agent the very next year. IIRC, I wanted to bring in Collins (free-agent at the time) for the year and grab Green for free the next year.

You were about the only one then after Green was accurate on only 56.6 percent of his passes and led the league with 24 INT's.

After Green's first season, NOBODY was claiming he was an "accurate" passer.

Most of Green's backers did however see the forest for the trees, and understood that CONSISTENCY was needed in several areas just like it is for Matt Cassel.
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Again, he was working in an offense that put an even greater emphasis on timing. You either believed he understood the system and the WRs were the problem or you didn't.

It's not like there wasn't reason to believe the latter. I could understand differing views.

good post, the film study helps somewhat.
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This.

Yes, it was his best game statistically, but nothing was shown today that changes my mind about his potential.

Stop generalizing the fanbase, because as I've said many times before the whole issue that year was the WR's learning the Saunders' system. Thus running wrong routes due to the complexities of the scheme.

I normally agree with the majority of your posts, but not this round. Trent had a FAR superior offensive line, Priest Holmes to lure in defenses and catch passes out of the backfield, a HOF TE in his prime, and Kennison to stretch the field with his speed. You're comparing apples to oranges if you think Cassell is even on an even playing field.

In watching that game, I would put two of the drops solely on the WR or TE that dropped them.

The rest were in part due to a poorly thrown ball.

Catchable, yes, but not easy.

Two that stand out was one to Bowe than was thrown high, and wobbled more than any pass that I think I've ever seen.
It should have been caught, but it would have been a good catch.

The second was the ball in the back of the end zone to a double teamed Copper.
One defender got his hands between between Copper's.
Had Copper caught it, it would have been an outstanding catch bordering on spectacular.

Very well then; the floor recognizes the Honorable Representative from the California Dairy Delegation, and enters the testimonial in to the Archives as Fact.:D

werent most of those drops away from you?
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I think it's a combination.

Cassel still isn't showing any comfort and confidence consistently in a pro set.

the two you talked about were the two i would say werent drops, how about bowe in the endzone? more than two were on the wrs hands
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Either way, nobody was claiming he was accurate. You don't throw 24 INT's in a season, and have people say I don't care he's accurate.

You may have believed it was ALL on the WR's and that's fine. I believe this season is on the WR's and O Line for Cassel's lackluster play. Either way, its hard to prove that's the case.

Like I've said all season. You can't judge Cassel on this season just like you couldn't judge Green on his first season in KC. It takes time and consistency.
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Yup. Basically, you can't blame the drops on Cassel...because pro wide receivers are supposed to make those catches.

But, it's pretty obvious a more accurate quarterback would contribute to fewer drops.

If you think the offense is the problem...think again. Some half baked RB on the "Clowns" broke a hall of famers record. Jim Brown wants a piece of this ****in defense. :cuss:

Guess it's what you like but since Charles has been playing Cassel has had a running game.

Green had a better line better backs and a better TE but nothing outside we literally had the worst WR's in the league during his tenure.

When I broke down Richardson's play in the preseason, I said he looked like a guy that could develop and man the position for years to come, and was met with derision for the most part.

When I got pissed and melted down because they cut Richardson and only claimed Ryan OCallaghan off waivers to replace him, I was lambasted.

Ryan O'Callaghan is a srcub.
Richardosn is a guy with real potential.

I said it then.

They are showing I was right.

Thanks. Listening to Len he was going off on the Bowe drop in the end zone I don't know if that is the one you are talking about here and the Pope drop in the end zone.

And that is why there is a serious question about this front offices ability to evaluate talent.

I would have to watch the game again, but as I said, in watching today, I saw two drops that I would put solely on the WR.

Bowe dropped two balls in the endzone. One early, one late. One was dropped by Pope as well.

Were they perfect throws? No. But if Bowe wants to claim that he is "The Show"...he needs to make catches like that.
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Again, Cassel's accuracy on the short to intermediate routes were not an issue last year.

I don't think that Cassel is ever going to be great.

I do think he has the tools to be a game manager.

Regarding the one to Pope...

I hope you're not talking about the one later in the game, where the defender hooked LP's left arm, and the ball was thrown back-shoulder.

I don't know anyone that's gonna catch a ball one handed when it's on his back (other) shoulder.

I know that O'Connell had two legitimate drops that really made some people upset. I even suggested that why are thy having O'Connell on the field, when Cottam has been showing great flashes on catching the ball and getting decent YAC.

Yeah, he had no shot at that. Dude had his arm in a lock.

You may be right about the arm lock, but the ball was not on his back shoulder. As he turned, it hit Pope right in the face mask if memory serves.
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Watch it again. The ball was poorly thrown.

I will say this positive about Cassel: dude throws the hardest flutter ball that I've ever seen. Pure and catchable.

Just did....well thrown right to him. Other than the locked arm, any TE in the league catches that.
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Not on his back shoulder?

Clayton, we need a GIF.

Where does it hit him?
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yep should have been pi imo
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No, you're right, it was perfectly thrown ball.

Pope needed to make a one handed grab is all, because the left arm was hooked as you saw, and others noted.

I agree with that. He reaches out and locks his arm.
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i didnt think so live, any nfl player should make that catch if not missing an arm
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Never said it was perfectly thrown. It was a catchable ball. I was wrong in saying it was a drop because of his one arm being restrained. Otherwise, a catchable ball.
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That is the way Dawson described it. he said it was a perfect pass

During the game, Gannon criticized the throw, said it was behind the receiver. That's how I'm remembering it, too.

But I will definitely consult the DVR when I get a chance.

Honestly though why are we all arguing over Cassel tonight he didn't lose this game the career day D did.

And I was screaming at Gannon that he was a reerun. Gannon said something similar about the throw to Bowe for the TD early in the game. Memory serves, it hit him right in the hands.

Bowe has a tendency of contorting his body in ways it doesn't need to go when catching the ball.
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