Or if the old, relatively inexpensive guys he brought in were actually good.

We're in deep shit.

Yeah I think most Chiefs fans would be disappointed with a 18-1 record and a SB appearance. I know I would be.

Pioli is doing things completely different than any other Chiefs regime and people are questioning this? Len Dawson will be at the superbowl this year to celebrate 40 freaking years of ineptness. Chiefs fans have about as much patience for a GM as they do a QB.

Give Pioli credit for this at least; he knew this team wasn't going anywhere this year and purposely brought in lesser/cheaper talent. Why would he even think about wasting anything more? He knew we'd win about 5 games and that was planned for as well. He's looking to make a bigger push each year. This year was a "purge and evaluate" year. The only mistake I've seen is it took too long to get rid of LJ.

Slow and steady wins the race.

You really want to give Pioli credit for the above bolded sentence? Seriously? Our GM is throwing away an entire season, and purposely brought in players he knew weren't winners, and you want to give him credit for this?

Wow.

I'm in amazement of how many fans are justifying a "throw away" season in which zero progress has been made, all for the sake of hope for the future. **** you Carl Peterson.

More than that, Dane. I actually looked over every transaction since Pioli's hire and did some quick math.

Counting draft picks, he's responsible for bringing in 45 new players.

37 of which are still on either the active roster, PS, or IR.

That 37 represents 54% of the players in the entire organization - again, active, PS and IR

Exactly half of the starting 22 are Pioli's players.

.

Have you been absent? I can already tell you the answer, he needs to sell the team.

Yeah they PLANNED to suck so they could deal with blackouts in December.

BULLSHIT.

This year is clearly an evaluation of leftover talent. You'd have to be blind not to see this. I think the talent level was a little worse than they anticipated. Every coach thinks that they can coach up players better than existing players. They erred.

What?

So Pioli brings in 45 players but all he really wants to evaluate are Flowers, Carr, Dorsey, Charles, Cottam, Albert, Niswanger, Waters, Hali, Page and Bowe?

How does that make sense in any way, shape or form?

People are really reaching.

Pioli's first season SUCKED ASS.

Plain and simple.

So you saying we should fire Pioli now?

He wanted to evaluate the last few years of draft picks to see if they could adjust to the new schemes. Once it became apparent they couldn't, they moved them and/or released them - Turk, Tank, McIntosh, Pollard (although likely Haley setting a tone), etc.

You don't think it's wise to evaluate top 100 draft players to see if they can cut it in the new system?

So you're saying he couldn't do that, AND draft/sign some talented players?

It has to be one or the other?

Christ, there's 53 spots on an active roster. You're talking about a handful of players.

After years and years of fail under Carl... I had higher hopes for Pioli than this. I knew it was impossible (not even Jesus himself) could turn the losing culture around in one offseason....

Thankfully Clark is a patient owner and will give Pioli and Haley time to turn this around. It will cause mass grief and panic when Pioli is retained this offseason. The fallout is going to be fun to watch...

WTF are you talking about?

Pioli's not going anywhere, nor should he.

What he SHOULD do is pull his head out of his ass and find talented ****ing players for this franchise.

This "losing culture" bullshit is overblown. It's a ****ing cliche.

Losing culture = shitty players

Winning culture = talented players

Clark is not going to fire Pioli after one year. He's still owe him $20 million.

That's just not an option.

I definitely think it's wise to evaluate top 100 draft players. However, I still expect the GM of the Decade to be able to do this in less than a year, and be able to do other facets of the job at the same time. Especially with ample film to review of each of those players. Actual game film even(Since Herm played the young guys). Other teams manage to do considerable evaluation during the offseason and training camp, so that by the time the season starts, they have a general idea of what they have and what they don't have. It was obvious to everyone that we had considerable weaknesses in several areas. In no way should it take an entire year to evaluate all of those. And those weaknesses were addressed by no-talent castoffs from Pioli and Haley's previous teams, instead of in FA and the draft when talent was readily available there.

It definitely takes time to evaluate some portions of the team. But to neglect such glaring and obvious needs when they could have been addressed logically and timely cannot be excused. You're spreading this excuse way too thin.

If it's an evaluation year quickly explain to me why Mike Brown keeps starting...why are young players on the bench?

Or why it took an injury to get Mike Goff off the field.

Or why brokedick Vrabel continues to start.

Or why it took a gay slur to get Charles on the field.

Truely a season of evaluation of the whole roster. I don't blame Piloi for standing pat and him and his HC learning first hand what they truely had. How these players would respond to new schemes and new work ethic. As far as the players that were brought in I think those guys were brought in to build the roster from the bottom up with a small hope of finding a diamond in the rough. So to look at that process as some kind of fail because the talent wasn't majorly overhauled is a little over the top IMO. I'm not down on Pioli for doing things his way. He should try to build this team the way he sees fit. We all arm chair evaluate some of his moves as good or bad and that's fine. But to not see what he's trying to do is the equivalent to burying ones head in the sand. Will Pioli's way get us what we want? I don't know but I can't blame him for the way he's started his rein in KC.


PhilFree:arrow:

There is no answer for it, the truth is they thought the past regime was so bad they could coach these guys up get a few vets and win 8 games...that's all I need to know about their ability to evaluate talent.

Pioli made a bunch of Carl esq win 8 games type of moves and people are saying this is different, are they high?

you dont know what the truth is. so why do you keep saying that shit

Please educate us then Matlock...

I'm betting that Pioli had access to...the tape from last year's games.

This is an amazing thing.

Pioli did jack ****ing shit. He didn't improve the club in any single meaningful way, aside from the kicker. In fact, one can make a strong case that we're worse off now b/c of the asinine contract he gave to Cassel.

And many believe this approach was and is understandable.

I think that the owner who paid those players lots of guaranteed money might want to see if those players are salvageable before throwing money at free agents. We all know that free agency isn't the wonder cure it's made out to be.

No, I'm not talking about a handful of players. More than a handful of players from the last several draft classes were around in May when the team actually got them on the field for the first time and had a hands on opportunity to coach and evaluate them.

did i say that i knew the truth. no. but he keeps saying the same goddamn thing over and over and acts like because he said it then its right.


none of us know what the actual truth is.why keep making assumptions




oh and fish go fist yourself you asshole

Jason should tell us again that Matt Cassel was bad throwing the deep ball because Moss was dogging it, cause you know there is no other evidence that he completely blows at it.

do you really want to go there this week? listen to the interviews after the pats last game. that should tell you ALL you need to know about moss...

i would expect you to chime in here, you are another one that thinks that because it crosses your mind it HAS GOT TO BE TRUE. dumbass

Great, the play on the field should tell you all you need to know about Matt Cassel.

Wha?

Niswanger?

McIntosh? (who was cut anyway)

Ron Edwards?

Bradley?


Please tell me your kidding with this line of bullshit excuses.


There's no reason why guys like Dorsey and Hali couldn't be evaluated while other talented players at other positions were brought in via the draft and FA.

If the people who are defending Pioli really believe what they are posting I feel very bad for the future of our franchise. You're basically defending him by saying hey give him a break he's kinda stupid.

What we know for a fact is that this past off-season was an impressive disaster, so we're pretty safe to make a few assumptions about how we reached this point.

The same offseason that if you questioned what they were doing while it was happening you were ripped a new one.

"I think it's pretty clear that someone with Pioli's track record knows what he's doing. I trust him completely."

Oops.

This is what I've been saying for forever.
It blows my mind that everyone is so up in arms over a season like this one.
We picked a player in the first round that, on average, doesn't mature for a few seasons.
That, was one of the MANY indications, IMO, that this was going to be a season of learning, and evaluation.
I fully expect massive turnover this off-season.


I know. I'm a Pialeyite. I can't think for myself.:rolleyes:

Pioli didn't "stand pat."

He turned over 65 percent of the roster.

FAIL

"Are you kidding?"

"Why the hell would they want to do that?"

I thought you were leaving?

He had no access to game film. We had to play an entire season for him to decide if some our current players would fit in his system.

It was also part of "the process" for LJ to self destruct on Twitter, thus opening the door to the Chiefs MVP, Charles.

Succop, you're great, but you're a ****ing kicker. And I'm not crowning your ass, yet, like many have done with our punter, who is the most ridiculously overrated player in recent memory.

I did.

Now I'm back. Did you miss me?

You act like the only day they evaluate players is on Sunday forgetting the other 5 days of the week. Morgan didn't sniff the field last year and it looks like he will gone at the end of this year.

As why they brought in some of these older players was because many "experts" on here and around the NFL stated that what Herm did was wrong putting all these young players on a team with little or no veteran leadership. Apparently they believed the same thing so they brought in some of these guys to show these young guys how to prepare, watch tape correctly, and how to do the day to day things correctly to be a better NFL player. I think the reason why some of the older guys are still playing is because the young guys still aren't cutting it.

Just my .02 cents.

Well I see these vet leaders have really made a difference.

The GM gets a pass because the Owner doesn't want to spend money - yet we gave Zach Thomas $1M to ride a stationary bike for 3 weeks.

Basically what we've come to is he gets a 5 year pass because his name isn't Carl Peterson, no wonder he came here.

I could have sworn everyone pretty much agreed on this before the season IIRC.

I think it has helped. It might not show up in the win column yet but it could payoff down the road.

There is no question we need a shitload more talent

Someone explain how Mike Brown is "cutting it."

Morgan, in limited action, was a clear upgrade.

I don't think Cassel's contract matters and if Pioli wants to move on it won't be cumbersome. At the end of 2010 that contract won't make a difference. As far as watching the tape that's fine but to truely know what he had he chose to see it first hand. It's more painful this way no doubt but to build something properly you have to start at the beginning. Things may appear or even be worse off for a period of time. I'm not saying Pioli isn't beyond reproach but I believe I see what his start plan was so I'm going to give it time and I hope it starts to bare fruit next year.

PhilFree:arrow:

I think the idea of asking a team that had 50 mill in cap room and a top 5 pick to bring in one foundation player is not asking to much yet they couldn't even do that.

Based on what?

They bombed.

As far as Zack Thomas, and his 1 mil.

Isn't the vet min. $900,000?

I could be wrong.

It's not the contract, it's that, that was his first big move as a GM, to say Cassel was his guy his franchise QB. GM's have ego's you really think he's going to admit he ****ed that up after 2 years?

That he wants to believe it did, that's about it.

Hey, we don't agree and I respect that. Still, I stand by my comment: if Pioli needed one full season to evaluate the existing talent on this team, he is the most incompetent GM in the league.

Exactly.

If talent evaluation could be done by watching tape, why the hell do GMs show up at schools to watch players, work players out, or even attend the combine? There's plenty of "tape" to keep them from having to do that.

Could one of you please answer this question for me?

I'm not excusing his horrible draft and he didn't begin to build the Chiefs the way I would have, but here is what Pioli said the day he was hired:

Q: How do you build a team, through the draft or free agency or a combination?
PIOLI: “I think the process begins by getting a better grasp on the talent that is here. We will be multi-tasking at the Senior Bowl and as we do our college evaluation. I want to get a better grasp on this football team and know these players that are here.


He also said: "This is going to be a very methodical process in building this football team, and we’re going to start from the ground up and build a foundation, move ahead, and touch every part of the football operation. The patience that I know Clark has told me he’s going to show it going to be rewarded."


People may not like it, but he started his GM responsibilities by talking about the evaluation of existing talent and he talked about patience and being methodical.

They did.

I love it, Pioli gets a pass for being incompetent, our future is bright.

Well if he thought he was taking foundation steps his first year he failed and failed epically.

Maybe it didn't take a whole season, but it took longer than he had before the season began.

Not to mention trying to put together a coaching staff, moving his family, etc. etc,.

You realize you are essentially saying let's give him a pass because he's kinda slow, right?

I don't see other new GM's getting these excuses as they actually help their teams get better.

Didn't I read where Studebaker gave Vrabel alot of credit for teaching him how to play? I swore I read that.

That's fine and all but he has shown absolutely no ability in terms of evaluating players.

Pioli has done such a great job with over 40 players hes brought in..2 are better than the guy they replaced and several are worse than the guy they replaced.

I'm pumped.

These people are way too smart to have to go through all the things that he's talking about there. It's really simple. Pioli is just a Moron.

He saw these players in OTA's and training camp. It doesn't take an entire season.

Plus, we're talking about the Executive of the Century, not just some random dumbass, right? Or are we?

I could give two shits about Pioli's family. I'm sorry.

Oh yeah I did read that.

Which 1st year GMs are you referring to?

Just curious.

Every excuse in the book right? He has a job to do I don't care about his family or that he needs a serving of spaghetti every 2 hours.

Exactly what was expected of him, and why he's here

Maybe that's a bad choice of words and not really what I meant to say. He didn't bring in high profile free agents to replace the players that were here. He started with the players here and then he brought in players to compete. He's not trying to just put a roster in place he's trying to build a roster from the ground up. They never said they were gonna do anything different then that.

PhilFree:arrow:

Well hey Atlanta's GM is from NE, apparently he isn't as incompetent as Pioli as his first draft built a foundation and ours built a pile of shit.

But I guess I should believe that was purely blind luck with the shit I've seen posted in this thread right?

You do realize that the vast majority of those players were not given long term contracts and are stop gaps for this season, right?

"Tyler Thigpen should be the starting QB. He's earned that right." /Gonzo

What have they stopped? Not the run. Not a constant ooze of shit.

If you're tossing away the season, please explain why we aren't at least playing young guys who might have upside?

Why would guys like Mike Brown ever see the field?

I know.

You also think that you can evaluate an entire defunct roster by "watching tape".