I don't think it's a secret that Clark Hunt would have liked to have kept Herm and felt guilty about pushing him out when Herm was promised time to gut the team. And one of those big decisions Herm made was to hire Chan Gailey, who would have been fired after one season. I doubt that he has the same kind of emotional attachment to Cassel. And I doubt he meddles much outside of the initial coaching decision.

We can't follow Pioli's history because he's never been in the position to need to draft a QB high.

He went from having the #1 overall pick to the ****ing winning lottery ticket.

Good point.

LOL, did that offend you? Or were you just trying to discredit my post because you don't agree with it? Stay classy.

Seriously Clausen's worse case scenario is Buffalo, same for Bradford they're both gone by 9 in a worst day for them scenario.

When you're getting paid millions of dollars, I have no sympathy for people losing their jobs.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the money they make; it's fair and part of the league. But you can't feel "bad" for anyone who has lifetime security. Thus it's easier to make calculated business decisions.

There shouldn't be any emotional attachments, at least in theory.

What he really meant was "KEEP F-ING DOUBTING MATT CASSEL!!! F'in F'ER!"



Personally, I think most of the above listed possible situations are likely discussed and would be considered. It's due diligence for the team to evaluate the worth of some of their players, as well as inquire into possibilities to fill holes or improve the team.

I have no doubt they'd consider shopping DBowe or replacing Cassel.

You don't think Clark felt more bad that he had to pay guys that weren't working for the team anymore?

When has Pioli taken a QB in the 2nd?

Kevin O'Connell 3rd round, 2008
Matt Cassel 7th round 2005
Kliff Kingsbury 6th round 2003
Rohan Davey 4th round 2002
Tom Brady 6th round 2000

One QB in the 3rd round. Wow, what a history. I'd say his history is taking QB's on the 2nd day of the draft, like he did 4 out of the 5 times he drafted one.

I think the word idiotic sums it up best.
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The one thing that I liked best about the Pioli hire at the time was that he seemed to understand the importance of the QB position. Even with established starters, he kept drafting QBs, so that there was the hope of developing the next starter in the pipeline. This is a fantastic approach, and one that we need to emulate.

And then he went vintage Carl...

You don't have to feel sorry for Herm. But from Clark Hunt's perspective, given that Herm completely gutted the team, I can't imagine he would have done so unless he received some kind of assurance that his job would be safe in 2009 regardless of how many wins the team had.

It's not as much about Herm as much as it is about Hunt. With Herm/Gailey, I imagine he feels like he broke a promise. That's why I think he was a lot more involved with the coaching decision than with players. I don't see any players on this roster who Clark Hunt refused to let Pioli cut because of emotionality.

And boy was I right on.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, I was completely wrong on that.

Served.

I personally think if the Chiefs dressed up a giant turd sandwich as QB, TRR would tell us how it's going to be a pro bowler one day.

Yeah, I could understand that perspective. If he promised something, it would be very difficult, to say the least, to break his word.

What's your credentials for judging an NFL QB? Same as mine I would imagine.

My opinion of Cassel (and any NFL QB) is that you have to have consistent pieces around him to be successful. Until Cassel has that, you can't judge him.

Am I saying he's a future Hall of Famer or Pro Bowler? Not at all. I'm saying let's be a bit patient, and see what he can do when he is afforded a bit more time and consistency in offensive philosophies and personel.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think it's because you once said....this...

And who would that QB be? There isn't a Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer in the 2008 draft. Matt Ryan, Brian Brohm, and Andre Woodson would all be very late 1st, if not 2nd round selections in almost any other years draft.

Unfortanely IMO, Ryan and the bunch don't bring much more to the table than Croyle, especially if the O Line is not rebuilt.

If I was Clark Hunt I would have fired Pioli the second after he made that trade, or just slapped the shit out of him the moment he propsed it.

WTF, do you think you're Carl Peterson? I just fired that dipshit and now you make a move he would make!

2 out of 3 aint bad....and Ryan has a lot to prove still....
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When I read the phrase "Hey Ryan ain't much better than Croyle" that is a typical KC QB fan thing to say.

It comes out every year.

What I've learned in this thread, is that unless you give Cassel studs everywhere, no one can criticize him.

I'm going to go to the other 15 teams in the NFL that have shit QBs and let them know that no fans can be critical of those QBs because they don't have good skill position players.

It's a travesty that Washington is going to replace Jason Campbell, Trent Edwards also subscribes to this notion.

I keep reading this, and it's complete bullshit every time.

Carl Peterson signed players he had no first-hand knowledge of. Pioli was around Cassel, knew alot about him, and obviously had a lot of faith in his abilities.

The only comparison is Trent Green with Vermeil.

Carl Peterson never had a comfort level with any of the 49ers QBs he acquired prior.

I didn't say he wasn't much better than Croyle...I said at the time that I didn't think he brought much more to the table. Was I wrong? Time will tell.

Ryan has exceeded expectations in my eyes thus far....but I was spot on with Woodson and Brohm up till now.

We could go back to any poster on this board and pull up a ridiculous quote FWIW...especially you.
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Yep. We just can't accuarately criticize Marc Bulger, Matt Hasselbeck, or Brady Quinn either.

If you said every QB was going to suck you'd get more right than you got wrong, that's the general argument every year. 'QB is risky" "this guy isn't that good" etc etc etc.

It's just to bad that in a QB driven league until you find one you're on the outside looking in.

Its funny how everybody forgets about his days in New England when he had that talent, and still wasn't that good.

If you can truly judge Cassel on the trainwreck that was last years offense, then I will send a letter of recommendation to all the NFL teams in the league begging for you to get a job as a scout.

Only time will tell who's right and who's wrong.
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It's really hard to throw WR screen passes man.

That's a little exaggerated as well. Do some of you really think he's going to come in and be a flawless player when he didn't start a real game in 8 years? I mean, he did perform well with top-notch talent, but it's like you can plug and play any QB into that spot and get above average production.

Joe Montana. Hackett was the OC when he was acquired.

And this obviously started the trend, so I'd say it's pretty applicable.

Lol!!!

Deeper and deeper it gets.
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The thing is Cassel has the same problem he had when he played for NE, his deep ball is horrible and his accuracy is highly questionable, the further he gets down the field the more wild it gets.

He's still that same guy.

Your posts are content driven.

That throw to Moss in the Jet game in the endzone was one of the best passes I saw all of the 08 season.

I think the Cassel haters are getting out of control with this now though. The guy sucked last year bad. But that doesn't take away from the season he had in New England in 08.

The numbers support the claims.

Cassel, at best, is average.

Seriously, this reminds me of Royals fan hoping that Hochevar develops. Um...wake up.

The trend? The trend of getting familiar players in with coaches they have had prior is a pretty common thing in the NFL.

Cassel cause Chief he get good!

That's 1 throw, and it's fine to bring it up as a great play he made. All I ask for is consistency, until he can consistently complete passes in the 10-20 yard range he will always struggle.

These statements are antithetical.

I don't believe the Cassel acquisition was a "safe" play, but it was absolutely the type of "risk" that Carl would have been more than comfortable with, especially with the draft pick we surrendered.

It wasn't that great of a season. It was a bunch of screen passes to Welker and Moss to break for YAC. He was average as best that year, not to mention he sucked even worst this year when he had the better OL, better running game and better WRs.

It was a very good season for someone with zero college or NFL real game starting experience prior.

I don't know why that's so hard to admit. I understand he sucks, and I don't think he'll ever amount to much, but the ragging on him constantly is like Reerun beating the Herm drum every chance he gets.

he still won more games in one season, than the chiefs have in three seasons.

I dont think Cassel is complete garbage....but i dont see alot of upside in him.

I think hes always going to be a guy who throws 15-20 TD's a year.

I want a guy who is going to throw 25 -35 TD's a year. Thats pretty much the standard now for guys going to Super Bowls.

Well he is paid to be our franchise QB and the team ****ed up by trading for him when a legit one was available. I think its legit to rag on the POS. Face it he is the face of our franchise, if he played like a legit franchise QB I would have no problem eating crow and say I was wrong about him. I really would and hope for the Chiefs sake he does, bc I don't think Pioli is man enought to admit he screwed up.

I tend to agree with you.

I believe he was better with the Patriots in '08 than most are giving him credit for, but like you, I don't expect him to ever amount to much.


As to the news, if they like Clausen enough to trade a couple of draft picks for him, just take him a #5 overall.

We have too many holes to fill to be giving away picks that high in the draft, and last year proved that reaching wasn't a problem for them.

20th-25th pick? He'll be lucky to escape the top 10..

You're not Gunther Cunningham....

Exactly. He's nothing special, maybe even below average.

He'll never be the guy to put the team on his back and win consistently. He's a role player.

And yes, we can judge him because the evidence exists to support this conclusion.

Cassel is basically Trent Dilfer..He'll never lead us to the super bowl unless we provide him with a top notch defense

Trent Dilfer sucked!

Explain why Cassel threw for 2 400 yard games. You never admit to being wrong.

"Yards after the catch (YAC), accounted for a whopping 57.3 percent of his total passing yards. The closest to that were Jason Campbell (52.0 percent) and Brett Favre (51.2 percent)."

And Mecca defends the other 2 imagine that. I suppose thats why we never see Mecca around after a Chiefs victory either?

Grbac threw for 500 yards in a game, Steve Bono won 13 games.

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about thanks.

Yes it does, it proves stats don't mean jack shit when it comes to a QB.

lolwut

FYP.

I swear the Cassel haters are becoming more and more like Glen Beck.

Madness.

It took over 250 ****ing posts
vroooommm vroooommm

lol.

Who is this legit franchise quarterback that was available to the Chiefs?

Sanchez?

12 TDS
20 INTS
2444 YDS
63.0 Rating

Cassel

16 TDS
16 INTS
2924 YDS
69.9 Rating

And then consider that the Cassel was the second most sacked quarterback in the league and the Chiefs receivers led the league in dropped passes.

:bong:

My opinion of Weis went up dramatically. My opinion of Haley and Pioli stayed the same.

Honestly, If Weis thinks Clausen is worth it at 25, he's worth it at 5. You're drafting him there to be a QBOTF.

Sanchez had two very bad games. He also won two playoff games and was leading a third when his team was beaten by Peyton Manning.

The Jets will add at least one more receiver this off-season and Sanchez will continue to improve.

This. It's refreshing to see.

Sanchez won more than that loser Tony Gonzalez has won his whole career. Lets quit with the Sanchez/Cassel comparisons. Sanchez will be the better QB.

Must suck to be that QB who has beaten Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Has 2 playoff wins and played his best game in the biggest game of his NFL career. Must suck be a nOOb QB who didn't shit himself in the playoffs either. Must suck to be the Jets who can build for the next 15 years around Sanchez.

I'm sure he will, but he's playing behind one of, if not the, best offensive lines in the NFL and had the #1 rated defense to cover his ass. But yet, he threw for 500 yards less than Cassel and had four less touchdowns, four more interceptions and a substantially lower quarterback rating. Cassel played behind the worst offensive line in football, had no defense to rely on, and his receivers led the league in drops. But he still had a better year than Sanchez, and people around here are ready to tar and feather Matt. You put Sanchez on this Chiefs team and think about what his stats would have looked like. If he could only throw for 2400 yards and a 63 QB rating on that Jets team, how bad would it have been here? But the vast majority of this board is more than happy to crucify Cassel.

Matt Cassel had a better rookie year. Higher TD/Int ratio, threw for more yards, higher QB rating. He had a better rookie year than Stafford, too. Great, young prospect who will only get better. And he's only in his early 20s.

I don't want to crucify Cassel, I wan't to crucify him upside down. I'd like to garrote him with Concertina Wire, and then have Ivar the Boneless give his worthless ass a Blood Eagle, topped off with him being drawn and quartered by four Clydesdales at midfield of Arrowhead. But first, I'd like to clone him, just so I could see it done to him again.

And yet, in spite all of this, I still hope he succeeds.

Why are you even here? Go buy a Sanchez jersey and start posting on the Jets fan boards.

How about giving the guy a chance?

I mean, shit we can keep beating a dead horse or we can look at the Cassel situation as a player that nobody in the world knows his upside.

I wanted no part of the trade, but whats done is done. I have hope that we have the right people around him so he can be successful in the future.

As Ive said before, I would be very very happy if we took Jimmy Clausen, but it isnt gonna happen.

I am trying to keep a glass half full outlook on the guy and hope that the reasons he wasnt successful last year will be lessened and he will get more comfortable and start to make plays. I dont know if that can happen, but with Weis as his OC and QBC he should have the best opportunity of doing so as possible.

Dropped passes
no qb coach
no offensive coordinator
line consistency

We have VASTLY improved two of those with the Weis hire and we fix the problems we have at receiver problem and are better on the line before we take the field next year. I have hope. We

2009 was a complete loss of a year to an already advanced aged and under-experienced qb. Not a good start to the regime, but hopefully its salvageable.

I don't think Cassel's upside is nearly as great as Sanchez's upside.

Sanchez is just getting started and Cassel is nearly 28 years old.

Actually Pioli drafted Chad Pennington in the first round.

I really wish the Aids Tree would hit you full force, you make CoMo and Hootie look like geniuses.

Pioli didnt work for the Jets in 2000.