Yeah, because it's not like we spent 4 months talking about these prospects.

It's not as difficult as you might think.

Um not really. I'm sure you're talking about Houston. We shut them down running. They had one long run by Ward that skewed the stats.

And 49ers, Jags, and Cleveland aren't consistent running teams?

He's acknowledged that the 2 best players in the history of that position were worth a top 5 pick in retrospect. Buying a winning powerball ticket is smart after the fact. That doesn't mean that playing the lottery is smart.

In retrospect, we might learn that Ryan Succop was a better player than Tyson Jackson. That doesn't mean that we should have drafted Succop at 3.

So if all us should appolize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to appolize to us who were right about Sanchez?

Funny how people always want to "erase" plays that happen against us, yet would never think of doing so to the Chiefs.

We gave up 6 yards a carry to the most balanced team we'll face all year.

No getting around it.

I'm not erasing it. I'm just saying that saying we were giving up 6 yards a pop is stretching it a bit.

ROFL Dude, you're an ass. You throw a lot of shit out there and present it as fact, then when proven wrong you never man up and admit it.

How were you right? He hasn't proven shit so far other than he can manage not to **** up games. In the same amount of games, he has damn near the same numbers as Cassel...am I supposed to be impressed by that?

ROFL

It's not stretching anything.

We gave up 6 yards per carry.

It's not debatable. It is fact.

Hell, take the Ward run out.

We still gave up 4.5 a carry.

Luckily, we won't face another team with a good running game and good passing game the rest of the year.

Ok :D

You don't understand.

The jury is still out on guys like him, while Dexter, Arenas and Moeaki are already excellent picks 6 games into their careers.

The double standard around here is comical.

Claussen sucks mirite?

Even Hamas stopped crying...

when will you stop?

Time to get behind this team for christ sake.

I remember 4 months of most of us wanting "playmakers" and when we drafted a damn good one in the second round...the goalline moved to "we should have drafted for our needs"

I honestly dont remember having a single conversation about DMC prior to the draft and TB H I didnt know very much about him until the Ole Miss guy showed up after we drafted him and educated us on him.

I should dig up that thread, that guy made a lot of the guys on this board look completely clueless about the kid (myself included)...that guy changed the tone of the board on DMC and so far, he has been dead on.

Shit, I was about the only one that really wanted us to draft Cody and I think DMC was a better choice. Over Arenas on the other hand...Id rather have Cody, but that doesn't mean I have even half the pertinent information needed to make a fully educated decision on that matter. I also said right after the Arenas pick that there had to be something Romeo Crennel didnt like about him and that I trust his decision and eval of him muc much more than my own.

I have done so a few times already, but if it makes you feel better Ill do it again.

I was dead wrong about Sanchez and he would have been the unquestioned best pick out of the 2009 draft for us at 3. The next best pick would have been the guy I wanted ...Orakpo.

I am behind the team, dipshit.

Doesn't mean I can't make a ****ing point.

Don't like it, don't ****ing read it.

what's your point?

we can't say that...

so far

FOR ONCE

our rookies are bang right out of the box?

FINE DUDE...WE'LL WAIT AND SEE AND WAIT AND SEE SO YOU CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR DIPSHIT ANTICS ON DRAFT DAY...IT'S OK BUDDY...WANT A BELLY RUB AND A WARM GLASS OF MILK, TOO?

and in all honesty...

as of right now

Sanchez and Cassel are a dead on wash.

(and that might be friendly for Sanchez if anything)...

dude has top tier targets and a top tier running game and a good offensive line...

you can mix and match Cassel and Sanchez and not notice a damn difference...

sanchez sucks too

*yawn*

Your act has grown tiresome.

You're like a 4 year old kid tugging aT Momma's pants.

MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM

LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.


For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with people saying that those three have played 6 good games. They have. I've said as much.

I have a problem with people declaring them outstanding picks after 6 games, while claiming that it's not fair to judge others after 20+.

If you're sober this evening, you'll understand this.

This is a little revisionist. The same people that were griping about the injury, never really raved about how much talent he had.

They didn't say that he wasn't talented, but they didn't talk about how good of a talent he really was.

The reality is that he has far exceeded everyone's expectations. For where he was drafted, even if he plays 10 games a year, the pick was worth it.

god forbid we're excited we have rookies who are contributing a lot to a team that appears as if it is in the upper tier in the NFL...

you either have or you don't in football...

the only way McCluster, Berry or Moeaki end up being bad picks is if they suffer a freak injury...only upside...

and other than Berry...Moeaki and McCluster don't even need upside...they are awesome as is...

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look reeruned.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

Folks, someone's scraping the very bottom of the barrel here.

I understand your point. While I agree, I will point out that 'typically', players improve. They are typically hitting their stride at 3 to 4 years. That is when, historically, players.... (other than QB's)...have tended to hit their peak.

So, declaring a player a bust is typically premature until that window has closed. Declaring a guy an outstanding pick could be argued to be logical with the general assumption that players improve over their first few years, and don't typically regress.

Now, with that said, there are cases that players do take a step back. So, it is not foolproof. But, overall, it is a much biggers stretch to call someone a bust after a few games than an outstanding picks.

I can honestly say I would MUCH rather have Sanchez right now and well, it stings a little bit.

moeaki and mccluster have helped win more games than any rookie form last year has this year or last year

Jeez you're an ass. "Luckily"??? You haven't got a clue what the hell you're talking about yet look at your post count. amazing

You can have all the upside in the world, but you have to produce.

Dex is on pace for 550 yards from scrimmage.

That's OK for a rookie, (funny how people claimed he'd easily break 1000) but as an early 2nd round pick, that number HAS to improve in years 2, 3 and 4.

If he's a good pick as some claim, he'll have no problem improving as the games/years go on.

Would you rather have the Jets or the Steelers on the schedule?

:spock:

I see no reason to believe he wont improve.

His output in the offense is gradually climbing as well. I don't know what the end result will be but I am guessing well past 550.

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.

Come on....

First, Cassel is ahead of that second year player. Second, Sanchez doesn't have 'unlimited' upside.

Now, Sanchez has proven me wrong already. Now, he hasn't proven to be a pro bowler yet, but he has been more of a leader than I thought he would be. I will probably eat crow for a while on Sanchez. I am prepared to do that. But, 'unlimited' upside?

Okay, now, for Cassel..... really, you think he has hit his ceiling? You mean, like Trent Green, Rich Gannon, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young, Matt Hasselbeck, and many others. These are just the ones that came to mind.

I don't know how much better Cassel will get. No one on this board does, because frankly, his level of play currently was considered impossible five weeks ago.

Shouldn't sting at all.

Who doesn't want what's best for the team?

I didn't care for either R2 pick, but if they can build off of what they've done thus far, and have solid careers, it won't "sting" me at all.

I do appreciate your honestly. Not enough of that around here.

May be but I can't change who I am rooting for, the Chiefs, so I am going to root for who I have (CAssel) to improve and succeed. It sucks but it is what it is.

It's all going to come down to health, IMO.

Doubt it. Chiefs would be looking at another 4-12 year. First, assuming the trade doesn't happen, then Vrabel isn't here. He is an instrumental leader and a second coach on the defense.

Secondly, right now, at THIS moment, Cassel is better than Sanchez, and it's not really close. Sanchez has more talent around him. Cassel has done more with less. The Jets line, WR's and even TE is better. The running backs are a push.

Now, this isn't to say that Sanchez won't be much better in a few years, but currently, Cassel is better.

I'd rather have the Chiefs schedule, but I happen to like the team.

It stings because I don't have a choice. We have Cassel and that's what I have to root for because I WANT him to succeed.

It won't sting a bit for me if Cassel improves and does his job when needed.

The difference is I think you can objectively look at it and realize Sanchez has more time and more likely upside.

Again...I ask why?

Sanchez is better than Cassel.... but better =/= good. He hasn't shown shit in NY.

WTF are you talking about?

This exact scenario was discussed by several of us the minute Weis was hired.

We knew that to "fix the QB" Weis would mask his deficiencies by throwing a lot of underneath stuff, hoping for YAC. Hell, I even vaguely recall someone, maybe Hamas saying he'd probably throw for 175 a game and that people would praise him for it.

And sure as shit, 6 games in, he's thrown for an average of 174, and people are acting as if he's "improved" because he's cut his INT's in half - because Weis doesn't ask him to make difficult throws.

LMAO

Yeah, look back 5 or 6 posts.

Objectivity isn't the strong suit of some here.

I agree to a point except Brady has the same number of down field throws as Cassel and he is playing on a team with a much worse running game so he is throwing the ball more often. You can bet now Moss is gone the number of balls down field will not go up.

It's a 3 step quick throw offense.The offense is designed for what it is, and it fits what Cassel does.

And yes it was somewhat predicted before the season but that's no surprise, that's how this works.

The clutch plays are what needs to be improved on IMO, not the worrying about down field throws.

The clutch play is what separates the Brady's from the Cassel's.

ON the schedule.

As in PLAYING them instead of the cupcakes we've played.

Here we go again with the double standard.

If Oakland had our record, and played the same teams we played, we'd all be talking about how they haven't beaten anyone.

I'm happy as hell they are taking advantage of a weak schedule.

Doesn't mean I can't be concerned about how the team is going to do against good teams.

And as I said, luckily, we only have to face one or two more this year in the regular season - hopefully they can continue to take advantage of it.

Sanchezplanet.

Sacks down, Int's down, top passer rating over the last 4 weeks. Yup..... CP nailed it.

Weis always throws underneath stuff. That is his offense. Same offense that Brady excelled in. The same offense that masked a decent, but not spectacular offensive line in NE. Same offense that is masking our decent, but not spectacular offensive line.

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.

Sanchez' upside is not unlimited...lets not get out of hand here.

You keep bringing up that Brady stat like it matters.

Brady has proven he can throw the ball downfield accurately. Teams have to account for it.

Cassel, not so much.

And regarding the offense, I'm shocked that Cleveland has been the only team that really loaded up the box and tried to make Cassel beat them.

Interesting that they are the only team to hold us under 4 yards a carry in a game, (3.6) and that we didn't score an offensive TD.

Don't tell CP that, Weis is clearly masking Cassel's weaknesses. He and Haley would MUCH rather throw downfield but that stupid Pioli is making them work with Cassel.

I am sure that in New Englad, Pioli made Bill Belichick work with Brady and they were forced to mask his weak arm as well.

Now, what with his Super Bowls, they are trapped and can't wait til he retires so that they can get someone with a strong arm so that they don't have to keep doing all this underneath stuff.

Yeah winning two playoff games on the road isn't shit.

Why are you acting as if this is some great revelation?

Like I said, some of us have said this since the day Weis was hired.

How exactly does it mean Cassel has improved?

Sound to me like you and SCF are admitting that anyone could do what Cassel is doing in this system.

(which is true, IMO)

When the argument is how we are running our passing offense and it can't work, it's a valid point.

Also I don't agree on Cleveland being the only team to stack the box.

Watching the game Sunday from the upper deck you could see a lot of 1 safety at the line 1 in the middle playing close with single coverage on the outside that needs to be taken advantage of. I don't think we tried once.

I am saying nobody is bashing NE for running the same type of offense.

Why would they?

They aren't running it because the QB is limited.

He's proven he can throw the ball downfield accurately when necessary - as well as make the clutch throw when necessary.

He had 1 good game in the playoffs. WOW. 1 special game his entire rookie year. Sorry, that's not shit.

Hell, if the Colts and the Bengals hadn't laid down and pulled their QBs from the games, we wouldn't even be talking about Sanchez in the playoffs. If you call Herm making the playoffs in 07 "backing in" then what do you call what the Jets did?

If Sanchez did that for the Chiefs, you would LOVE him.

Did what? Back into the playoffs? I didn't love Huard, so why would that make me love Sanchez?

You're wasting your time.

I can't believe we're actually going down this path.

OMG Sanchez didn't WIN two playoff games he was there for the ****ing ride. Give me a ****ing break.

WRONG AGAIN

Cassel has actually completed 1 more pass over 11 yards than Brady.

haha got ya.

Passes 11 yards and over:
Cassel 22/53
Brady 21/50

While we are at it...

QB rating:
Cassel 91.5
Tom Brady 96

YPA
Cassel 6.82
Brady 6.88

comp %
Cassel 59.5 (has been much better over the last few games 63% over the last 4 games)
Brady 66.2

w/l
Cassel 4-2
Brady 5-1

td/int
Cassel 9-3
Brady 11-4

sacks
Cassel 5
Brady 12


Those are some pretty promising coincidences IMO...much closer than I thought they would be.
Not back into the playoffs, we all know and acknowledge that is the case... the way his play improved as the stage got bigger is what Im talking about.

That's not fair. I am not his biggest fan... and he clearly benefits from the talent around him. However, bad QB play cannot be masked as easily as CP thinks. QB's have to be able to make throws. Even when the team is run first, they have to convert key third downs and at least keep the defense honest.

Sanchez didn't 'carry' the team to the playoffs, but he didn't wet the bed in the playoffs either.

So, he wasn't just along for the ride.

Trent Green backed us into the playoffs, not Huard. He also played like shit after his concussion.

Huard was at least game managing and making the throws when he had the time. Also, we rarely ever saw the fetal position in Huard's first year playing for the Chiefs. The way the team was clicking that year after Green was out, I'll bet Huard would have won at least ONE more game for this team. A 10-6 record would have resulted in not "backing in".

I also think we would have had a better shot at the Colts if we started Huard instead of Green in the playoffs. Then again, we also would have had a better chance if somebody shot Mike Solari in the face before the game. Such is life.

No they wouldn't. They wouldn't have gone to the AFC championship last year. They would have finished 4-12 and be in exactly the same situation they're in right now.

This is not a value judgement on either quarterback. It's not a statement that Sanchez is good or bad. It's not a statement that Cassel is better or worse than Sanchez. It's simply a statement that the 2009 Jets as a team were far and away better than the 2009 Chiefs. We did not have their defense. We did not have their running game. We would not have made the playoffs. Sanchez would not have had the opportunity to have the three great halves he had in the playoffs. Sanchez would not have had the "rookie playoff wins". In all likelihood, he would have started 2010 as a quarterback who had never at any point in 2009 looked like he should be starting in the NFL, because his stats for the season would have ended with week 17.

If we transplant the entire Jets roster here last year, then maybe we're talked about as "this decade's dynasty". It's easy to romanticize, but we were a horrendous team last year, and Sanchez would not have changed that.

Does that mean I don't wish we had him instead of Cassel? No. It just means I try to keep some loose grasp on reality. In reality, Sanchez would probably have had all the same questions entering 2010 as Cassel did, and my guess is we'd be talking about the exact same things right now, about how Weis is limiting the playbook to help him, about how our top-rated rushing attack is just in place to protect the quarterback, and about how we'd be better if we'd gotten quarterback x, y or z instead.

Hell, in some ways, maybe the Chiefs of 2010 are the Jets of 2009. It sure looks like the same plan they used to get to the AFC championship last year. Running game and defense.

He had 1 good game against Indy. I mean WTF? You guys are acting like he was good throughout the playoffs. He had one good game.

Can we PLEASE not say Breaks Down and Moeaki in the same thread title, please??

ROFL

I agree.

LMAO The Irony in this thread is amazing. A bunch of you calling out the Drafturbators for their wrong predictions then dissmissing ur own...

ROFL

Who?

Im not one for this pitty bullshit. Go back and look for ur self??

I'm sorry I liked Sanchez but got over it when I realized he wasn't an option. I'm sorry I laughed at his rookie season production because I knew it was causing butthurt. I'm sorry you took Everette Brown number 6 overall in the CP mock.

FWIW Sanchez turns 24 in two weeks..:D

ROFL