I have to respectfully disagree. The Chiefs have been blown out 5 times this year, and it wasn't all the offense's fault. If the defense were at the top of their game during all 5 of those same games, I imagine they would have only lost by a couple of TD's. Crennel still has some kinks to work out before anyone can assume he can get them back up to the level of the Gunther Cunningham defense of the late 90's.

As far as Dick Vermeil, during his 5 year run as the Chiefs' HC, he was primarily offensive-minded and did little to improve the defense (the defense sucked during the Vermeil years), which would explain why 4 out of those 5 years the team failed to make the playoffs, three of them being with losing or un-winning (8-8) win-loss records. Honestly, the Head Coaching is not the problem overall, it's the entire Chiefs' personnel that needs revamping since they have yet to obtain both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense in the same season.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Marty is incapable of getting any team to the Superbowl. His career strategy was nearly the same every year:

1. Start a career back-up QB.
2. Lead his team to a 10-6 record or better.
3. Choke in the playoffs.

He did this with the Cleveland Browns, Kansas City Chiefs, and San Diego Chargers. There is no woulda, coulda, shoulda with him even if he did get the chance to work with Rivers. By the way, Rivers is a whiny baby and is not ready for the Superbowl yet. Let's face it, his chances of actually getting a team to the Superbowl are as good as Marv Levy's chances are of actually getting his team to win a Superbowl.

LMAO Marty and Superbowl should not be in the same sentence

How do these people find their way here?

FFS

:facepalm:

Al Saunders was our DC?

I think you have him confused with Thomas Edison.

FAX

Hindsight is 50/50 Mr. FAX.

I could ask the same about you since you only paid attention to the bolded sentence you decided to reply to while ignoring the meaningful points of my post.

Here's my question. I like the idea of Fisher since he's a defensive guy. But, isn't he a 4-3 guy? You are pretty vocal about switching to a 4-3. Why do you specifically want Fisher so bad?

Is that a DCS mult?

Next he'll tell us what a good offensive lineman Saleamua was...

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make reeruned replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

I dont know where this defense would be without Bowe causing Havoc on opposing passers.

I actually think McNair and the whole team was held back by his ultra conservative offense. It's just too much 'Marty' for me. I don't need to deal with that ever again.

Opinions and assholes I suppose.

Because he's a winner. He went 13-3 with KERRY COLLINS.

As for defense, I think Fisher would be smart enough to come in here and realize we're set up for the 3-4 and Romeo is doing a fine job running it. He's not a defensive moron. He cut his teeth under Buddy Ryan.

I should add that I won't rely on the advice of a guy whose profile tagline suggests to give up on Tony Moeaki after a season ending injury in just his second year in the NFL. That'd be like Jim Kelly retiring early just because the Buffalo Bills placekicker Scott Norwood couldn't convert a field goal to defeat the Giants in Superbowl XXV.

JFC, did you watch KC lose in the post season under Marty?

Have you watched Rivers in the playoffs?

That's like an atomic bomb of choke waiting to go off. Two of Rivers three playoff wins are against Manning and Dungy. The other one being, of course, Jeff Fisher's Titans. :D

No.

I think it's you.

FAX

Haley went 10-6 with MATT CASSEL

Marty and Rivers lost to the Patriots.

That's not choking.

Rivers got to an AFCC in just his 2nd year starting. He's headed for greatness once Norv is out.

I'm praying Fisher and Rivers don't team up because that's trouble for the rest of the division.

Showtime.

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me. If you weren't trolling, you wouldn't be firing personal shots at me. I guess being allowed to have an open opinion about the Chiefs doesn't pay off here. Lame!

Actually, that's how I survived when I first came here, Mr. JCharles1981. I eventually decided that the only way I would ever fit in was if I started creating the most asinine, moronic, and blatantly imbecilic posts imaginable. Then, after awhile, I was accepted.

So far, I think you're doing great.

FAX

In other words, don't take personal offense to insults thrown at me. Just move on like they don't bother me, and people will hate me less eventually?

ROFL

This guy didnt even get the Saleamua reference....he went along with it like Dan WAS an offensive linemen.

Thats all one needs to know about him to write off his takes.
1) Marty took Steve Bono to a 13-3 record, too. CROWN HIS ASS!!!

2) Buddy Ryans defense is the polar opposite of Crennels 3-4 cover 2.

I would LOVE to have Crennel here the next 10 years if he did 2 things

1. hire a legit OC (like Norv Turner)

2. be more aggressive on defense and mold the defense to fit the strengths of its players, not force the players to fit your outdated scheme. When he did that, the defense came alive.
This whole post is straight up reeruned.

Marty and Brees lost to Herm's jets.

Brees > Rivers. Marty wasn't gonna win won with Rivers either.

I don't like the philosophy. I got enough of ultra conservative coaching from Haley.

Rivers is a damn good QB, but he tends to play poorly in the post season. Blame Norv if you want, but players play. In Brees and Marty's only loss in the post-season... Brees was outstanding. He threw for 300 yards and 2 TD's. Rivers was horrible.

www.chiefscoalition.com

GO HOME!!!

I guess when you were born reeruned, your mother had the doctor slap you to see if he could knock the reeruned out. Looks like it didn't work.

HOLY SHIT

ROFL

FAX is taking the gloves off, guys.

Yep.

That's what I did. When I saw a stupid post, I went double stupid. When I saw a dimwitted, asinine statement that somebody had pulled from their ass, I posted the most damn dimwitted and doltish thing that mankind has ever attempted to read since the invention of the English language.

Then, eventually, people realized that I fit right in.

So far, I think you may have a darn good shot at N00b (sp?) Of The Year.

FAX

I am home, punky mcnasTERD.

Oh, my.

LMAO

YA SURE DID GET ME.

Ha! That'd be my first real trophy since I was like.....5.

seriously, click the link and start an account there.

You will like it a lot more than this place.

Give it a shot...

BYE

Yeah, I know it doesn't seem like much now, but it gets worse.

I won the NOTY one time and I was afraid to tell anybody for a long, long time.

FAX

Hahahaahaha. Some Chiefs fan here would strangle other Chiefs fans with a different opinion.

Welcome to CP

You remind me of the 40 year old virgin.
Posted via Mobile Device

Things we have learned from JCharles1981 tonight:

1) Dan Saleamua really was an offensive linemen...apparently not a very good one, either.
2) Al Saunders was an overrated defensive coordinator
3) I hate Tony Moeaki and have given up on his after just 2 years.

I think you should start a new thread and call everyone to address this issue. I am sure CP will lend a listening ear.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think you overestimate the fanbase.

While I agree that many more would like to see a QB drafted and are clued in to who McDaniels is and why they do not want.....

This message board and talk radio is not a good gauge of the overall Chiefs Kingdom. This board is consisted of people who are much more informed that the average Chiefs fan.

This would be the same Kent Babb who as recently as a few days ago in a Star chat said the Chiefs most likely keep Haley? The same guy who discounted the problems between Pioli and Haley? Sorry but these local guys are spoon fed their information. I believe it was Clark Hunt that had enough though and made the move. It's just a gut feeling from the press conference.

There is no way the entire team "loved" Haley or hated him either. Most likely the truth is in the middle. I never thought he had the credentials and I didn't like his coaching. A lot of Chiefs fans liked him. I'm sure that's how it was in the locker room as well. Time to move on.

Fisher is not supercoach!
 

Good post and one I agree with. His winning % is somewhere around 54%. There are not many experienced coaches out there with great winning percentages or they would have jobs. I do think Pioli should hire someone who he feels comfortable working with and get everyone going the same direction. It's his last hire if he's wrong so I don't really care who he chooses. From what I've read Clark has him on a short leash. I am more concerned about Stanzi and the QB situation than who the head coach is right now. If Pioli misfires it's getting blown up again anyway.

610 broke it...

we've learned the Patriot way only works with a Great QB.

FYP

Cliff Notes:

1. No Chiefs news whatsoever. No leaks or rumors of a firing.
2. KC website announces Haley is gone. Press conference in 3 hours.
3. Every reporter suddenly has inside info from the last 3 years, stories include, but are not limited to: Haley hated T Jax pick, it was Haley who took Cassel under his wing and developed and believed in him, Weis refused to develop Cassel, Haley was a monumental prick to Bowe which caused Bowe to go to Pioli and complain, Pioli went to Todd and told him to stop being a dick to players whose contracts the team is trying to extend, Pioli is tied to the hip with Cassel, McD & Ferentz are likely HC candidates.
4. Press conference occurs. Clark seems calm with underlying anger. Pioli looks uneasy, moreso than he ever has in front of the camera. Blame the firing on a lack of consistency. Get asked a bunch of lame questions. No answers.
5. All of the inside leaks and info stops like you are turning off a drain.

Mass hysteria ensues at the Planet. The end.

Even with a cupcake schedule that's still a heck of an accomplishment with Cassel involved. -Matt Cassel needs Jerry Sandusky.

"Guru" and "genius" are are the product of the talent that plays for them on the field.

Billick was never able to bring his "genius" to Baltimore, because Ozzie Newsome never came close to providing him with the talent that he worked with in Minnesota..

In Baltimore, had mediocre skill position players, especially at QB, except RB, an outstanding O-Line to block for that RB, and one of the best defenses in the NFL.

He adapted.

The thing that separated him from guys like Marty and Jeff Fisher, was that he was not afraid to take a risk in the effort to reach the SB.

Where Fisher simply got lucky to win a hard fought contest with Music City Miracle, Brian Billick, in a low scoring hard fought game took a chance.

In a situation that Marty and Fisher would simply have run the ball 3 times and punted, Billick from the Ravens 12 yard line, with a medicre Trent Dilfer, ran slant play that caught the Raiders off guard, and it turned into an 88 yard TD pass.

Tight sphincters, in all probability, lose that game.

GREAT post.

They do on the CP. . .

I certainly don't think Fisher is as aggressive as someone like Sean Payton... but he's not Marty either. People equate physical football to Martyball. Just because he ran the ball a lot, his teams would still take shots downfield, take risks, throw in a surprise onside kick or trick play. I don't think a Marty team would've tried the music city miracle play. Fisher also had success with 1st round QBs, even Young who he didn't want. To me Fisher is closer to Rex Ryan than Marty.
Posted via Mobile Device

Simpsons?

Yuck. The Jets are the most boring team in the NFL.

Yep

With a Schottenheimer at OC.

Imagine that.

Uh Vermeil wouldnl't want to spend the money on defense. We would end up right back where we were. Vermeil would want all of these players for his offense and to put them on the squad the rest of our play makers on defense would have to go to have the money for them.

Stupid post. When Gun became the DC under Vermeil, Peterson went out and got every player that Gun wanted.

Wait; Tim Tebow or Aaron Curry is applying for the HC position?

/confused

This is all a misunderstanding.


Clark Hunt has been watching his DVR Game Of Thrones season, and Haley's beard confused him and he thought he was actually surprising Chief fans by lopping off Ned Stark's head.

It works for fan interest in that show, he's trying to replicate success.

Nailed it. Great post.

After Vermeil had gotten rid of the talent we had. Yeah he went out and got old worthless cheap players. Not stars, young and up and comers. The money was already spent on the offensive side of the ball. Vermeil believed that the LB position was not very important.

Goonther came back after how many years of Greg Robinson and Carl made Vermeil get rid of Robinson. Vermeil was as anti defense as Herm was anti offense.

Yet the two biggest free agent signings on defense during the Vermeil era were Kendrell Bell and Shawn Barber. Both were young & up coming players, and they drafted Derrick Johnson. Yet LB was not very important to them?

Man you guys and your memories aren't very good. Kendrell Bell yeah he was 26 but he had blown out his knee 3 times before we signed him. The Steelers didn't want him anymore because of his knees. Not a good signing.
Barber was 28 when we signed him. The guy stayed injured. I had hopes for him. But still you guys are talking about LB the cheapest position on the field. We drafted Derrick in Vermeil's last year.

What old LBs did the Chief bring in to start under Vermeil after Cadrez the first year? In 2002, it was Fujitia, Maslowski and Patton. Patton got cut, they signed Barber got younger again the next year with Kawika Mitchell.

Also what defense talent did Vermeil let go of? Donnie Edwards. That would be it.

2001 - kc gave up draft picks for Vermeil and Green. 1st pick that they had was defense - Downing.
2002 - Sims and Freeman were the 1st and 2nd round picks.
2003 - Mtichell in the 2nd and Battle in the 3rd.
2004 - first pick was Siavii, then Fox and Allen in 3rd and 4th.

They may have drafted extremely poorly, but they certainly were not anti-defense whatsoever.

Fisher should go coach the Raiders
the thugs & undisciplned

Well that may be true. Although Fisher had guys like McNair, C. Johnson and Kearse over the years who could make things happen. I just think I would rather have Fisher 100 times more than McDaniels.
Posted via Mobile Device

Compare the Raider & Titan rap sheets

Chester McGlocklin, Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards, Duane Clemons.

They got rid of the money on the defensive side of the ball to bring in players that could run Vermeils offense. Yeah we tried to draft some players....that is a 50/50 if they work out. Not to mention that it takes a couple of years for players to get up to NFL speed.

Let me preface my question here by saying, I hated Dick, and that's pretty well documented around here.

But I have to ask, you think that relaesing Chet, Williams and Duane Clemons somehow speaks to Vermeil's apathy toward defense?

Seriously?

Just admit you were wrong and move on. They spent money and draft picks on defense. The picks and free agent acquisitions didn't work out, but they tried.

Well I think by cutting, releasing, not resigining our best Defensive players at the time along with his opinion about the LB position. Remember he drafted London Fletcher and then wouldn't pay him in St. Louis. Fletcher spoke out about that situation. At the time this is where they got the money to sign Green, Dunn and the rest of the players that Vermeil brought in. That defense that he had in St. Louis was 1 tackle good enough to win a SB other than that they were the bottum of the league. Defense was definitely 3rd to Vermeil. Special teams and Offense was more important to Vermeil than the Defense. When everything else on the team is more important than Defense, You know defense wins championships, You can most definitely say he has apathy for Defense.

Labored

I would argue that Dick was more clueless than he was apathetic, but that is not what I'm arguing right now.

Using those underachievers to prove your point is not proving your point at all.

Clueless is probably the better word. We all know he did care.
What underachievers are you refering to?

Why didn't Vermeil draft offensive players and bring in defensive players through FA?

Playing the last place schedule that also included the sucking NFC West. Oakland also swept the division.

It is my opinion, if Cassel was worth the powder to blow his hat off, Haley would still be the HC of this team.

But he isn't, and they get to start over because the QB still sucks ass.

It is really that simple, and the only way to have avoided this would have been for Haley to say no when he had some leverage.

That was when Pioli wanted to hire him, not after he was committed.

Why would Dick Vermiel have to spend money on defense?

This defense is 2 or 3 players away from being one of the top units in football and Romeo is pretty much the epitome of what DV wants from a DC.

I think Stanzi is damn close to a Trent Green clone and he could do wonders with a guy like Orton in the meantime...if we gave him a first round quarterback, it would put us in the spotlight as a true contender.

The three players you brought up that I named in my followup post.

I wouldn't label Donnie an underachiever.
He was simply overrated by Chief fans.

But regardless of the label, blame for his departure falls more to Carl than Dick.

And I'd guess that the primary reason that you would draft D and sign O in free agency is that it's generally thought that rookies can assimilate defense and have an impact quicker than offensive skill position players.

Why don't you take a chill pill, and go back and re-read your posts. Once you take the time to discover your stupid errors, then you might want to grovel and ask for forgiveness from this board.

He wouldn't spend money on the defense. He would let a lot of the defensive players go to get money to put towards the offensive players he wanted to bring in. JMO . then we would try and draft some more defensive players.