Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 8223579)

Pressure turned the best QB in the league [yes, I said it, best] into a puddle of goo in Arrowhead last Sunday.
.

Originally Posted by Omega (Post 8223688)

Actually, it didn't.

The Packers dropped SEVEN PASSES in the first half ALONE.

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 8223139)

Who cares? We've been operating $30mil under the cap.

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 8224548)

Orton is to the Chiefs what Gannon was to the Raiders. A journeyman that finally gets to the promised land!

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 8224548)

Orton is to the Chiefs what Gannon was to the Raiders. A journeyman that finally gets to the promised land!

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8222377)

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.

I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.

I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 8223679)

Orton has a way of fooling coaching staffs in the offseason. He is the best practice player in NFL history and plays great in the preseason. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs get tricked into thinking Orton can be a longterm answer and then realize a year or two later they have been fooled.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 8223593)

Nobody's [at least not the OVERWHELMING majority] doing that. At most they're saying that's not the ONLY thing to do.

But then, as we know, your analysis of the NFL has turned into one big 'OR Gate.'

Originally Posted by blaise (Post 8222394)

Saying he's better than Cassel isn't saying much.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 8223089)

Chiefs fans will do anything to rationalize avoiding having to draft and develop a first round QB.

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8224796)

Outside of maybe a few, who here is doing this?

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8224798)

I second this.

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8224809)

I'd say 99% of us regular users are onboard with drafting a franchise QB.

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8224796)

Outside of maybe a few, who here is doing this?

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 8222396)

Cut C@$$hole and Palko.

Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.

Draft the best QB we can trade up for...

Originally Posted by Bobbie (Post 8224484)

Did Trent Dilfer win the Super Bowl, or did the Ravens?

Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman...

you can get to the Super Bowl with a terrible QB...

Peyton Manning is a bit different with the Colts. Indeed, clearly, the data is "in" on that score...

My favorite - Jeff Hostetler - clearly he won the Super Bowl, and Lawrence Taylor and the NYG D had nothing to do with it...

Originally Posted by teedubya (Post 8224463)

Step 1. Sign Orton.
Step 2. Cut Cassel.
Step 3. Kick Cassel in the nuts.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Profit!

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8222377)

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.

I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.

I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!

Originally Posted by Shox (Post 8222511)

Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.

If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.

Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.

Originally Posted by durtyrute (Post 8222766)

I agree with most of this. I don't like the idea of giving away picks to move up for anyone. We have no idea how they will play in the NFL. Plus, we still have some holes to fill. I'd say keep Orton (Cassel and Palko exit stage left) and go BPA in the draft. If it's a QB in the first, great, if not find one later. Then next year roll with Orton while Stanzi and QBX sit and watch. In two years, QB comp between QBX and Stanzi and we roll with the winner.

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8224814)

Chiefs Planet is a poor representation of the actual fan base. The genious loosers over at Arrowhead Pride and other sites caption your average Chiefs fan much better

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8224822)

Yep, that looks like about 1%.:)

Originally Posted by teedubya (Post 8215886)

Orton can stay in KC as long as he wants, IMO. Remember this... he is playing with a ****ed up throwing hand!

I was very impressed with him. Great game. It is only ONE game, but I was NEVER this encouraged with Casshole.

Originally Posted by KCBOSS1 (Post 8216003)

If Orton plays out the rest of the season like he did today, he deserves the starting job hands down with no concern for "competition". I wasn't an Orton supporter but after not having a real quarterback in this offense since Trent Green, the potential of this team looks completely different with him in there. I believe a win like this could absolutely bond players with coach, with quarterback. If he continues like he did today, we should not draft a QB first round, he shouldn't have to look over his shoulder. The job should be completely his. If a highly ranked qb falls to a lower round, that's different.

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 8217063)

Not me. I said he was as good as Carson Palmer and WAY cheaper. I'll go ahead and say we no longer need to think QB in the draft.

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8224829)

Just giving you shit Hamas. There are always going to be idiots on this site. Hell, we have probably all been said idiot at some point.

Originally Posted by SPchief (Post 8224833)

Well duh, hindsight is always 50/50 here

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224840)

Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure. The idea is to keep pressure off of him and provide a quick outlet for when the defense is bringing the heat. That's why talent evaluaters talk about film-work and reading a defense as keys to a QB's success.

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8224829)

Just giving you shit Hamas. There are always going to be idiots on this site. Hell, we have probably all been said idiot at some point.

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224840)

Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure. The idea is to keep pressure off of him and provide a quick outlet for when the defense is bringing the heat. That's why talent evaluaters talk about film-work and reading a defense as keys to a QB's success.

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224840)

Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure.

Originally Posted by Omega (Post 8224941)

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8224846)

Whoa, you just made a post that didn't mention 50 years of NFL history.

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224944)

I didn't share an opinion, Clay. It's a fact that quarterbacks do not perform at their peak while being pressured. You're the only person who wants to argue to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Omega (Post 8224946)

Some perform better than others under pressure. Also a fact.

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224947)

No question. You could have said it that way instead of saying "WRONG" and we wouldn't even be having this exchange.


I agree. He folds under pressure. That's not surprising. I don't think he has any kind of superior decision making or escapability either. To his credit, he uses his blocks well and slides around the pocket with ease. He also makes quick reads and gets rid of the ball efficiently. Nobody is going to mistake Orton for a superstar QB but he's better than anybody the Chiefs have had in years. I would even go so far as to say he's better than Trent Green.

In a nutshell, I won't cry myself to sleep if the Chiefs keep Orton for 2012. He's not nearly as good as he looked vs. the Packers but he's nowhere near as bad as he's looked at times wearing a bear or horse on his helmet.

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8222377)

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225001)

At least PART of the "same stats as Cassel" has to do with the way he'd been utilized.

In Chicago, after they elevated him to starter, the coaches allowed Kyle a great deal of leeway in his on-field decision-making. He would often audible out of a pass play and into a run - even at the LoS - if that were the best play for the TEAM. He didn't give a rat's ass about puffing up his stats, he wanted his team to win. If that meant only throwing 10 passes in a game and running it the rest of the time, that's what happened. Worked fairly well too - KO was 21-12 (.636) as a starter in Chicago.

In Denver, he ran into the opposite situation. The HC (McDumbass) was obsessively controlling with an ego that demanded EVERYTHING be done his way, no deviations allowed. The play that was sent in had better be the play that was run, regardless of the actual situation on the field. That eventually ended up with the entire Offense being thrown onto Orton's arm. Kyle has a good QB skillset, but few QBs could carry a team like Denver without ANY help from the Defense, ST or run game.


Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.


I've followed Orton's entire pro career. I have NEVER seen an entire group of WRs fight so hard to catch and advance the ball as they were doing for Kyle in the Green Bay game. They sure seemed to appreciate the fact that Orton was getting the ball to them and giving them the opportunity to do something with it.


Because Orton was tagged as a "game-manager" in his rookie year playing for Chicago. He had little support from the FO who were still touting Rex Grossman as the QBotF for the Bears and insisted that Kyle was simply filling in.

So, the perception was established of KO simply being "adequate" but you can do better. Sure you can. There's another Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees out there. Somewhere. Maybe. But those guys are very few and very far between. And not always recognized as "THE GUY." Out of that group, only P. Manning was seen that way going into the draft. And at the time, there was a great debate as to whether Peyton or RYAN LEAF was the better pro prospect. It's virtually impossible to KNOW who's going to be great and who's going to be a bust.

A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." The Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli Manning. The Ravens did it with Trent Difler. Since then they've made the post-season 3 consecutive years with Joe Flacco. The Jets have gone to the AFC title game repeatedly with Mark Sanchez. The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman under center. The 49ers have clinched the NFC West with Alex Smith.

Yet the Cardinals are floundering with Kevin Kolb. The Chargers are repeatedly one-and-done in the playoffs with Phillip Rivers. The Eagles are falling apart with Mike Vick. The Cowboys can't get anywhere with Tony Romo.

You can keep spinning your wheels thrashing about in a vain search for the next "great" QB and keep your team in a constant state of self-destructive chaos. Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8225008)

Eli Manning is 'simply adequate'?

you have to be Carl Peterson...did you lean in your chair and fart while typing that crap?

Originally Posted by Omega (Post 8225011)

Manning wasn't particularly good the year the Giants won the Super Bowl. He threw 20 INT.

Originally Posted by Omega (Post 8225003)

Marshall's numbers are relatively the same in Miami, not counting TDs.

Orton is a good QB but let's not puff him up too much.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225001)

At least PART of the "same stats as Cassel" has to do with the way he'd been utilized.

In Chicago, after they elevated him to starter, the coaches allowed Kyle a great deal of leeway in his on-field decision-making. He would often audible out of a pass play and into a run - even at the LoS - if that were the best play for the TEAM. He didn't give a rat's ass about puffing up his stats, he wanted his team to win. If that meant only throwing 10 passes in a game and running it the rest of the time, that's what happened. Worked fairly well too - KO was 21-12 (.636) as a starter in Chicago.

In Denver, he ran into the opposite situation. The HC (McDumbass) was obsessively controlling with an ego that demanded EVERYTHING be done his way, no deviations allowed. The play that was sent in had better be the play that was run, regardless of the actual situation on the field. That eventually ended up with the entire Offense being thrown onto Orton's arm. Kyle has a good QB skillset, but few QBs could carry a team like Denver without ANY help from the Defense, ST or run game.


Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.


I've followed Orton's entire pro career. I have NEVER seen an entire group of WRs fight so hard to catch and advance the ball as they were doing for Kyle in the Green Bay game. They sure seemed to appreciate the fact that Orton was getting the ball to them and giving them the opportunity to do something with it.


Because Orton was tagged as a "game-manager" in his rookie year playing for Chicago. He had little support from the FO who were still touting Rex Grossman as the QBotF for the Bears and insisted that Kyle was simply filling in.

So, the perception was established of KO simply being "adequate" but you can do better. Sure you can. There's another Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees out there. Somewhere. Maybe. But those guys are very few and very far between. And not always recognized as "THE GUY." Out of that group, only P. Manning was seen that way going into the draft. And at the time, there was a great debate as to whether Peyton or RYAN LEAF was the better pro prospect. It's virtually impossible to KNOW who's going to be great and who's going to be a bust.

A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." The Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli Manning. The Ravens did it with Trent Difler. Since then they've made the post-season 3 consecutive years with Joe Flacco. The Jets have gone to the AFC title game repeatedly with Mark Sanchez. The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman under center. The 49ers have clinched the NFC West with Alex Smith.

Yet the Cardinals are floundering with Kevin Kolb. The Chargers are repeatedly one-and-done in the playoffs with Phillip Rivers. The Eagles are falling apart with Mike Vick. The Cowboys can't get anywhere with Tony Romo.

You can keep spinning your wheels thrashing about in a vain search for the next "great" QB and keep your team in a constant state of self-destructive chaos. Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8225008)

Eli Manning is 'simply adequate'?

you have to be Carl Peterson...did you lean in your chair and fart while typing that crap?

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225001)

A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...

Originally Posted by Carlota69 (Post 8225031)

KYLE ORTON IS THE ANSWER....for now and probably for the next year or two IF he signs with us. However, why would he sign with us if we keep Cassel and he has other offers to be the starter? Im sure KO doesnt want to go thru what he did in Denver again.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225062)

That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225033)

Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225062)

That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225062)

That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225062)

That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225113)

KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225113)

Sorry, but I don't rate Cassel as high as "adequate." Or Thigpen. Or Huard. Trent Green was the last KC QB even in that range.

Looking back thru the Chiefs draft history back to 1960, the only QBs who's names I recognize are Brody Croyle and Steve Fuller. Fuller was a good backup for Jim McMahon on the Super Bowl Bears of the 80s. That's the absolute best they've ever done at drafting the QB position.

KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225113)

Sorry, but I don't rate Cassel as high as "adequate." Or Thigpen. Or Huard. Trent Green was the last KC QB even in that range.

Looking back thru the Chiefs draft history back to 1960, the only QBs who's names I recognize are Brody Croyle and Steve Fuller. Fuller was a good backup for Jim McMahon on the Super Bowl Bears of the 80s. That's the absolute best they've ever done at drafting the QB position.

KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225124)

After 40 years of failure, yes, I would like them to try the approach that works for other teams. I'd rather take a new direction for the next 4 years rather than continue 44 years of a plan that has failed horribly.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225062)

That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.

Originally Posted by Phobia (Post 8224947)

I would even go so far as to say he's better than Trent Green.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225113)

KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225144)

Denny, what team do you root for? I'm assuming it's not KC since you said you didn't know who Peterson was.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225144)

Denny, what team do you root for? I'm assuming it's not KC since you said you didn't know who Peterson was.

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8225154)

Shouldn't matter... Orton is the best pure passer/best decision maker we've had since probably Grbac's probowl year. Before that... I don't remember Lenny playing but I'm guessing maybe it was him? :shrug:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8225154)

Shouldn't matter... Orton is the best pure passer/best decision maker we've had since probably Grbac's probowl year. Before that... I don't remember Lenny playing but I'm guessing maybe it was him? :shrug:

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225033)

No idea who "Carl Peterson" is.

Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB. The season they won the Super Bowl, he had a passer rating of 73.9. His completion rate was only 56.1%. He averaged only 6.3 Yards Per Attempt. That's been Eli for most of his career - good but definitely NOT "great." Good enough to allow his team to win.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8225159)

I assume you are being serious.

Best pure passer and decision maker based on 1 game?? I guess you crowned his ass already.

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8225182)

I saw someone Sunday that could make all the throws accurately. Trent Green had a Cassle arm which is why he relied on Priest for dumpoffs so much. Rarely he went down the field unless it was to TG.
As far as the Chiefs go... CROWN HIS ASS! HE WAS, WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS!

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 8225182)

I saw someone Sunday that could make all the throws accurately. Trent Green had a Cassle arm which is why he relied on Priest for dumpoffs so much. Rarely he went down the field unless it was to TG or 10 yard outs to EK.
As far as the Chiefs go... CROWN HIS ASS! HE WAS, WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS!

Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet (Post 8225201)

Thank you. I get tired of people who didn't watch the Chiefs or were too young to remember saying how average Trent Green was. He was a ****ing stud.

Originally Posted by whosyou (Post 8225239)

Trent green was great but he never had a season as good as Cassel's best 27 td 7 ints

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 8225218)

Trent Green was surrounded by the best offensive talent the Chiefs have had in 40 years. Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Will Shields, and Tony G, among others, sure help make a QB look good.

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 8225033)

No idea who "Carl Peterson" is.
Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB. The season they won the Super Bowl, he had a passer rating of 73.9. His completion rate was only 56.1%. He averaged only 6.3 Yards Per Attempt. That's been Eli for most of his career - good but definitely NOT "great." Good enough to allow his team to win.

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8225240)

LMAO


throw yourself off a high building