Based upon what other decisions he had made previously?

I will take that for a "no"

I agree. I just know Lamar let Carl do whatever he wanted with rounds 2-7 but he wanted to sign off on 1st rounders. I know most of us were surprised with the LJ selection. I don't know if Lamar was surprised or not.

I'm not saying he had brain damage. I'm just saying it's not going to be ruled out without a test. And even then, given that he shot himself in the head, people will probably go "Well, his brain had a bullet go through it, so I don't trust the results" no matter what the test shows.

As for testing his brain, I don't think it takes a fully intact brain to do the tests. I think it can be done through a biopsy, it's just that there's not exactly a long line of living people volunteering to have their brain tissue removed.

But in a situation like this, where there might have been pieces of his brain in the parking lot and God knows where else, it might have taken a conscious effort on the part of the ME to make sure something was kept for testing. I haven't heard if anything like that happened.

Sure, it's really silly.

Someone in an agitated state that has a gun in their hand and just confessed to a murder asks you to call a couple of guys over. You do so and show or feel no fear.

Yet, you're saying that Pioli, Gibbs and Crennel were afraid, even though they've stated otherwise?

Riiiiight. You're the answer man.

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe 40+ years of choosing higher character guys?

How many other first round choices had been previously arrested for domestic assault? Or arrested at all?

The same franchise that passed on Dan Marino because he allegedly swore too much in his Chiefs interview is suddenly cool with women beaters?

One of my best friends was married to a prominent councilman close to the Hunt family. I knew about the cancer way back before it was made public, like two years before.

I know that Lamar suffered at times and had periods where the family didn't think he was going to make it much longer. I can't remember if one of those periods occurred during the 2003 draft because I just can't remember accurately.

But as I stated earlier, that pick was out of character, so it wouldn't surprise me if Lamar was incapable of any input or just plain unaware.

ROFL

here we go

Go where?

Why is it so hard for you to believe what I've stated? I've been a member her since 2000 and am friends, Facebook friends, etc. with many forum members.

If I was lying about anything, why haven't even ONE of them called me out?

And for the record, two of my Facebook friends that have access to my life are mods.

So what's up, Mate?

I never said that. Clay said that.

Try to keep up.

Please quote that claim. Thanks.

Wow, what an utterly ridiculous post.

First, I asked you to quote me, which you could not. So instead, you make up shit to support the idea that what you claimed I said was wrong.

JFC. That's ****ing ridiculous on a number of levels.

According to the Chiefs and the NFL, Belcher never had a concussion during his career. It's also been stated that he never missed a game or suffered a concussion in college.

Until it's been proven that he suffered from CTE or another form of brain damage, it's pure speculation and IMO, makes lessens the seriousness of the crime.

Do any of you remember Dale Carter?

That was a 1st round draft pick with plenty of pre-draft known problems. In fact, Carl Peterson was quoted as saying he worried every night about what Dale Carter might be doing.

If you recall, Carter go into an incident where shots were fired at his car after an altercation in a nightclub and on and on....

Carter was drafted no. 1 in '92

That's fine. I'm not saying head injuries had anything to do with what happened.

I'm saying the notion that "Head injuries had nothing to do with it because it was a crime of passion" is actually somewhat backwards. If anything, it helps open the door to considering brain injury as a possible factor.

But for all we know, it'll come out tomorrow that Belcher had been planning to kill her for weeks. So who knows.

Alcohol is a dangerous drug. It will cause dramatic mood swings.

That was very hard to read. I know what he did was un forgivabley awful but he isn't the monster most make him out to be. I'm waiting to truly comment on all this until I see all the facts and not BS reports and "anonymous" callers

Wow.

This place just isn't worth it anymore.

The Chiefs have ruined Chiefsplanet.

LOL

Yeah, but I always have to keep my knees together and walk funny. And if anyone looks at me from behind, well......

Seriously. Go back and look at your exchange overnight.

Laugh all you want, you look pretty pathetic.

I call them as I see them. One guy was trying to paint a single organization in the NFL as an altruistic knight over all others and another was alluding to the idea that he knows what goes on behind closed doors and at private events to which he had no access.

Both were wrong.

I did not compare the Hunts to any other owners.

Fact is there are several organizations that try to deal strictly in players with class. As much as possible, the Hunts have always tried to do that.

Oh, and if you want another example of how much of a cover-up artist Pioli is, look no further than Tamba Hali's belated suspension.

Unless the player was good at his position.

It's still a business.

I cannot disagree with that statement. I just disagree with your original one that the Hunt's wouldn't employ someone like Belcher. We have both agreed that they have and you were wrong.

It's definitely turned a little Twilight Zonish of late. Say ... the last year, or so.

And I have that uneasy William-Shatner-On-A-Plane-With-A-Wing-Monster feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better.

FAX

New details from the NY Post....

Belcher spent night before killings with another woman
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...=SFnewyorkpost

My original statement was that "the Hunt family doesn't tolerate people like Belcher."

They don't.

Larry Johnson's ass was cut as soon as he showed he wasn't worth putting up with.

Larry Johnson was charged with a felony his first year with the team - for waving a gun in his girlfriend's face and threatening her life. He was charged with two more assaults over the course of multiple years with the team.

He was tolerated, period. Your original statement was wrong, period.

They tolerated Derrick Thomas... no saint. I think it's funny that most here don't think Clark pays any attention to the chiefs whatsoever, but then, somehow, they know about mental timebombs like belcher.

Yes, but he wasn't "like Belcher." He was a first round draft pick making a lot of money.

If LJ had been a fourth round pick he would have been GONE over that.

But now, thanks to Scott Pioli, we root for a team that tolerates undrafted free agents who are also horrible human beings.

The only thing this place seems to be good for anymore is watching people fight with each other over shit that is never worth fighting about.

RIP Chiefsplanet.

Yeah, we used to root for a team of 1st round picks who were horrible human beings..>That's much better.

No. Larry Johnson was really the only dick.

This organization has always tried to be about class.

Now, who knows? Our POS GM swept tons of dirt on Belcher under the rug. Who else on the roster is a colossal POS?

Here is a good article from 2009 talking about these same issues with a former Chief.


Warren Moon Hopes Current NFL Players Don't Repeat His Mistakes

During much of his 23-year Hall of Fame career as a quarterback in the Canadian Football League and the NFL, Warren Moon kept his inner turmoil simmering beneath a poised, polished exterior.

As a trailblazing African-American quarterback, he tackled racism and stereotyping to hone a wildly successful playing career. But Moon never shook the psychological burden of becoming man of his household at age seven when his father died of liver disease, and forever feeling he had to financially provide for a huge family that included his mother, six sisters and other relatives.

Ultimately, Moon's personal demons wouldn't hide forever. As his playing career wound down, years of pent-up pressure, stress, frustration and anger led the popular NFL star to make news off the field -- embarrassing, troubling arrests for domestic violence and DUI that led him to undergo years of therapy and renewed accountability to his family, friends and those who idolize him.



"There is a lot on your plate for professional athletes -- the pressure to perform, to provide for your family, friends, everyone -- that a lot that people don't really know,'' said Moon, 52, who talks about his life, career and his myriad personal mistakes in a new book, Never Give Up on Your Dream: My Journey, co-written with Don Yaeger. "Eventually, if you're not careful or not aware of what's happening, it can come out and destroy you."

Moon told FanHouse he hopes his personal tale of the pitfalls that often accompany athletic success can serve a cautionary tale for young NFL players. And there are plenty of guys who can use this life lesson.

Thursday, former NFL running back Travis Henry was sentenced to three years in prison for his role in a cocaine trafficking ring. And how's this for a damning character trait -- Henry also is universally reviled for his admission that he can't afford child support for the 11 kids he has fathered with 10 different women.

On Monday, former Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who remains under indefinite suspension by the NFL, will begin life as a free man when his two months of home confinement ends. Vick served 19 months in federal prison after being convicted of financing a dogfighting operation.

"Doing time in the pen" isn't part of the NFL experience, but off-field mayhem often is. From Donte' Stallworth's guilty plea to DUI manslaughter after striking and killing a Miami pedestrian with his Bentley, to Plaxico Burress' gun charges, to soon-to-be-inducted Hall of Famer Bruce Smith's DUI conviction last month, these incidents assume their sorry place in what's become an NFL Hall of Shame.

"There are plenty of young guys that I'd like to grab around the collar and shake some sense into them,'' Moon said. "A lot of those guys are going through probably the same stuff I was, at that time.

"I probably wish someone would have shook me."

As a player, Moon largely maintained a stoic demeanor on the field and a quiet life off of it. He was respected as a model athlete, husband and father, and revered as a role model.

That sterling reputation quickly unraveled one awful night in 1995, when Moon and his wife, Felicia, were involved in a widely publicized domestic violence incident at their Texas home.

Although acquitted by a jury of charges that he punched, scratched and choked his wife in a physical dispute over credit cards, and despite Felicia's controversial pleas that prosecutors abandon the case before it went to trial, the Moon family remains haunted by that incident.

"My wife and I had our squabble; that's the biggest negative of my career, personally,'' Moon said. "We dealt with that as well as we possibly could, and I made sure I took steps to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. She did the same thing, because we were both fault. It was just a very public situation because of who we were at the time."

Later, two 2007 DUI stops in Washington that led to admissions of guilt in court, but reduced sentences for negligent driving, would tarnish his image further.

"I went to dinner and had a few drinks. I made a mistake but I thought everything was overblown,'' said Moon, who still believes the DUI charges were unwarranted since he tested under the limit in the first stop and was arrested for refusing field sobriety and breathalyzer tests in the other.

Still, Moon knows his fans and the public will not forget, nor will many forgive, these personal blemishes.

"Once you're in the news for something like that, it's hard to erase,'' Moon admitted.

Former eight-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Cris Carter knows all about demons. He battled alcohol and cocaine addictions that nearly derailed his 16-year NFL career, but he resurrected his life and image to win the Walter Payton Man of the Year award in 1999 and a spot on the NFL's 1990's All-Decade Team.

During the 2009 NFL Rookie Symposium earlier this month, Carter tore into the incoming class of NFL stars after one of them -- still unnamed -- fell asleep during his fiery speech about the challenges they face trying to earn a living "in a grown man's league."

Carter recalled seeing Burress, Vick, Ryan Leaf (indicted in May on one count of burglary and eight drug-related counts associated with the narcotic painkiller hyrocodone) and Adam "Pacman" Jones (trouble ad nauseum) in the audience at his previous "avoid the pitfalls" lectures to rookies.

"Every one of 'em said, 'You know something, Cris? It ain't gonna be me,' '' Carter recounted.

Moon hopes that Carter's powerful words got through to these incoming NFL players, and he wants his message to do the same.

He offers some simple advice to the younger, wealthier breed of NFL stars as these players negotiate their way through challenging playing careers and equally challenging personal choices.

"Watch the people who are around you and the people you associate with and hang out with,'' Moon cautioned. "A lot of times these are the guys you grew up with, that you don't want to turn your back on. But those guys aren't going in the same direction as you.

"These young players, these guys, really need to pay attention who they associate with and where they associate, the places they hang out. If they eliminate those two things, for the most part, they're gonna be OK."

Damn this thread has gone crazy and the stupid **** hasn't even posted in it yet.

Sad, if police had hauled his ass in like they do REGULAR FOLKS they find drunk sleeping in their cars then maybe this entire situation would have ended differently. They need to stop giving celebs breaks because it only enables their problems to escalate.

And you think other teams don't have this problem? I guarantee most NFL teams have at least 1 guy who is struggling with something.

And what exactly was Belcher's problem before this incident?

He didn't beat her, that we know of. She seemed very happy with him.

So you're telling us the Chiefs should have cut Belcher months ago because he had problems with his gf and they could have broken up permanently?

C'mon man. That is assinine.

They should have cut Belcher months ago because was an alcoholic thug.

i blame you. you awoke her

And how did he show that he was a thug before recent events?

I wish they would have just cut him for not being able to play better.

This is a passing league, and that was his weaker game.

Whenever I have financial troubles I like to cruise in my Bentley.

So it was the fans fault, now it's the cops fault. Got it.

who said he had financial problems?


she was failing classes he paid for. she quit her job.


maybe he wasnt ok with the way she spent his money

If they were worried about financial problems they both should have been back home with their new born eating healthy and watching video tape figuring out how to be a better player before calling it an early evening.

Alchohol, unhealthy codependent relationship. control issues and stress = disaster.

I know! I mean if that isn't just asking for murder, then what is?

You have such a hard on for Pioli you can't see the situation logically.

who has said that?


man you guys are ****ing crazy lately.

just trying to say that is maybe they were having financial counseling

Like they did Bam Morris and Tamarick Vanover.... oh wait.

LOL @ goatcheese trolling

If we are winning I can deal with drug dealing, alcoholic thugs.


/honest fans

Especially if they're white. /Jared Allen

We weren't exactly winning when Bam was around town...

Think of how much better Belcher could've been if he wasn't out chasing PT and getting murderously drunk so often??

Guys like LT could do that; he was a freak of nature. Belcher usually played like he was hungover...it all makes sense now.

I don't think Jared Allen has had a drop of alcohol since that DUI arrest.

I like Jared Allen and, while he may be a recovering alcoholic, I would consider him a 'bad element' or a 'thug'.

Quite the opposite, in fact...

Racist.

i see what you did there

well...you know all about how 'if the shoe fits' and all??

:D

He was arrested for DUI while in college and then twice while with the Chiefs. According to goatcheeze, Jared Allen should have been cut BEFORE he got a DUI... or perhaps we never should have even drafted an alcoholic.

Meh, as long as my team wins I don't care if they have a ton of problems.

Just being honest.

Jared Allen was also pulled over at least 2 other times and was released without incident, because he was Jared Allen.

Jared Allen should have been traded the minute he refused to sign a contract indemnifying the team against his reckless behavior...oh wait, that's EXACTLY what happened.

It may seem silly but it won't as soon as the Chiefs are named as a defendant in a Belcher-related lawsuit. You KNOW it's coming.

Chances are good that if they had lived the life style of a parent, at home with their 3 month old baby, they both might still be alive. 20 somethings need to socialize but aren't mature enough to change when a baby is involved.

That would make me SO angry

it's part of why he dropped to the 4th rd, but to say we should never have drafted him, because he's an alcoholic??

Favre's an alcoholic; he had a drug/alcohol withdrawl induced seizure and almost died while having offseason surgery prior to the SB season...but he cleaned himself up and had a pretty decent career by any standards.

Based on your logic, Favre shouldn't have been drafted. Nor Lawrence Taylor, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, etc. Just a couple LEGENDS that are/were sever alcoholics...

Most people would and do.

Hence the "honest fans"


I know it doesn't bother me as much as some people.

Well, if it REALLY bothered people, they wouldn't be able to be fans.

The league is full of 20-somethings, many who come from very difficult backgrounds.

You can't field a team of choir boys, there aren't enough of them.

I dunno. I have complained (even on this board and the old KC Star one) when men of lesser character have been brought to the team. It just irritates me that anyone could state hiring unsavory characters started with Pioli.

I am no fan of Pioli, but let's not blame him for assisted murder.

Well, at least those two weren't.

It's absolutely true; Ol' Kasi shouldn't have been at some crappy Rhyme N' Bass lusty soft-porn sleaze fest, and Daddy Jovan shouldn't have been out getting drunk and chasing the muff around.

At 1AM, with a 3-month old baby...any decent human beings would have been home asleep with their kid. Especially when one of them has to be at the team facility in a few hours for a team meeting then a walkthrough.

Like, you'd think Belcher would've wanted to be home with his daughter and get rested up so he could put all his energy into trying to win an upcoming game...but in reality, fans probably care more about the games than the majority of players (like Belcher.)

Hate to sound callous, but **** Jovan and Kasi. Selfish fools, natural selection's a bitch. Stay home with your kid, get rested for work. 'Hanging in da club' is about the most ridiculous crock of horseshit anyway. Trey Songz is ****ing terrible; generic, sophmoric digitized BS that is literally about nothing more than intercourse (every. single. song.) If you have no culture, no couth...if you watch garbage, listen to garbage and do garbage thigs, your life will probably be garbage, too.

Stay home with your kids, go to bed early, act like a real family, ****. In America, it's 'cool' to NOT be close to your family, 'do your own thing, be your own person, etc.' There is no personal accountability. Jovan and Kasi were a couple of ****ing idiots, living a hollow, bullshit life - so selfish, that even WITH their ample financial resources, they weren't capable of taking care of a child. Probably why Belcher's mom was there in the first place.

****ing losers.

This thread, ****...

All of that common cause, goodwill and unity, adios.

Its going to be a painful offseason around here.

fyp

this franchise won't be getting much better anytime soon. They're dysfunctional mess from top to bottom; from absentee owner to disgruntled parking lot attendants...

This team is ****ed.

I don't know about around here, but I certainly hope it is painful at 1 Arrowhead in the off-season. This would assure their desire to improve all around and help those who may need help in the future.

There are some seriously self-riteous mother ****ers in here.

staying home with your kid instead of going out and getting drunk is self-righteous??

Or have our ****ing standards for human decency become a non-entity??

His mother (who just came into town) was with the baby, and probably having a ball doing it.

I went out without my kids after they were born. It is normal.

That was kind of my point earlier this morning.

And it isn't just this board.

The fanbase is fractured. The tipping point HAS to be right around the corner.

Till 1am or 7am. I don't think its normal to leave a 2.5 month old with the babysitter until those hours.

you probably didnt have to work at 930 in the morning the next day when u went out though.

being a ****ing psychopathic murderer with deep deep issues, thats how

It's not my logic. It's goatcheez's logic.