I am not trying to rate Albert against the rest of the league, especially since I have a bias for Albert, given that I was the first person anywhere that was calling him a tackle in the draft.

But I am comparing him to Long, and Long is still more technically sound, but there's no way that Long is more than a marginal upgrade, if he is even an upgrade at all.

and If Albert really gets the technique down, this would not even be debatable.

He's slated to be a free agent, we might be able to get him for NOTHING. But I suspect Miami will try to work out a sign and trade with a threat of tagging him. Far too early to tell what his fate will be at this point but if you actually knew what was going on with him then you would make incredibly piss ignorant posts like this one.

In pass protection, it's pretty easy to pick out who is assigned to block who.

It isn't rocket science.

PFF is just a means to appeal to an independent, unbiased rating system.

It only confirms what everyone here knows...Albert was awesome this year.

At this point Long looks like he will never recover from that injury. It's been two years and he's nowhere close to the player he was.

Brokedick, IMO.

LMAO

Dude, it is easy as **** to tell if a LT is one on one with a guy in pass protection. Stop this shit.

Continuity on the offense line is huge. Therefor, there isn't any reason not to either tag Albert and see about his back, or sign him if it checks out.

Here is where we disagree, Long is a huge upgrade outside of a ZBS but I'll agree that he isn't worth the trouble if we stay zone blocking.

To me it all comes down to how much money Albert is going to want. I'd pay him top 10 even top 8 money but not top 5.

I'd like to see Albert given a big contract with a big roster bonus due the third year.

That way, he gets a nice bump in pay to keep him happy and in town while giving the team the option to walk away if his back keeps him off the field.

He completely manhandled Tamba Hali like a little doll.

And again you show just how ****ing ignorant you are.

Dude take the homer glasses off.

LMAO

OK.

How many sacks do you think Albert allowed this year? Or are you just not smart enough to tell?

It's interesting that anyone thinks Jake Long is even in play for the Chiefs. They won't even contact his agent, I guarantee it.

It's almost like...someone has a Jake Long bias...and a dream of Jake Long in red.

I think Hudson is a quality C and we shouldn't give up on him.

You won't find many interior OL that have better fundamentals than him. He's going to be a solid and reliable OL for years to come.

This was one of the few Pioli draft picks that I actually thought was a good move.

And Hali has owned Ryan Clady.

Sometimes it just about how individuals match up with each other.

Hali has a nice initial burst, but he's more about power than speed, so he owns Clady, while Long is more physical, so he struggles against him.

There are, and have been, very few players that match up with both speed and power on either side.

Albert is still a work in progress, but has the physical attributes to eventually be that type of player.

Long doesn't.

Often it is. Sometimes it isn't. Depends on the play and the complexity of the blocking scheme. My point being, the ONLY people who can accurately create a metric for a given offensive line are the people inside that organization who know what was called and what the responsibilities were. Otherwise you are guessing. Most of those guesses will probably be right, but they are still guesses. If you look at an organization like PFF and how they handle their guesses you can see just how unscientific it really is.

NOBODY KNOWS HOW MANY SACKS ANYONE GIVES UP! IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL!!!

THEREFORE ALL OPINIONS ARE FORFEIT!

WE CANNOT TELL IF ANYONE IS BETTER THAN ANYONE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.

And I really hope Branden Albert's back problems are minor. It would ****ing suck ass if Albert's back problems turned into a problem like Jared Gaither's.

No, it's obvious you are the one who isn;t smart enough to follow along. It has nothing to do with how smart I am, it has to do with INFORMATION I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO you ****ing moron. At best, I can make an educated guess. That's all anyone outside the Chiefs can do.

This is the only thing you have said worth anything. He really hasn't recovered well and I'd want a massive workup done before signing him for sure.

It's too bad Jake Long will never be a Chief.

I've seen a couple of plays here and there where I question whether the OT had an assignment or perhaps it was a RB or TE.

But those are plays where there are just absolute whiffs, and it looks like there was confusion.

But when a LT engages with a DE or a LB and just gets beat, there are no guesses.

It's right there in front of your eyes.

The entire point being that we are about to hire the guy who drafted him. AND Andy Reid's first big free agent signing when he joined the Eagles? Jon Runyan. AND Long is a FA this year. AND our LT is a FA this year. It's not like some completely random out of left field thought.

I also doubt we sign him simply because I think Albert will sign a reasonable contract and this will be moot... I also have a feeling we will stick with some sort of ZBS and Long won;t be a good fit anyway.

It's still a stupid fantasy, because Long is not better than Albert, and hasn't been for two seasons.

**** jake long, the 99% prefer Albert... /thread

What if he is supposed to engage then break off? What if it's a situation like the Redskins pulled on Dallas where half the time they didn't even try to block Ware using misdirection instead? I agree that MOST of the time you can guess correctly but when you are talking about such a low percentage number (sacks allowed) even a few wrong guesses and those figures skew massively.

Everyone but AustinChief can't be wrong, can they?

BTW I trust someone like you who watches the game and makes their own determinations far far more than I trust someone like GoChiefs who is clueless and relies on PFFs specious numbers. (Except on Jake Long, I don't trust you on Jake Long.)

I think you are trying to make sound far more difficult than it is just to make your boy look better.

Dude, I already told you PFF only confirms my own observations.

Knock this shit off. You aren't smarter than everyone else here.

I say you and I agree to disagree on this one, since we neither trust each other on this specific subject.

^ This. There are two positions that NEVER hit the open market unless there are issues with them. Franchise QBs and Franchise LTs. If Long is elite then he is a franchise LT and if the Dolphins are willing to let him walk then that says a ton about him.

He certainly thinks they can.

Go on a Dallas BBS and tell them Tony Romo isn't a top 10 QB... see if 99% disagree there.

Fact is, I have dozens of friends who are rabid NFL fans of other teams and I have asked this question a number of times. Not ONE person placed Albert as a top 8 LT only TWO guys had him top 10.

CP is usually pretty damn good about not falling into the homer trap... Albert seems to be one of our blind spots.

so every play the Dolphins run to mask Jake Long's deficiency is they do some sort of chip block or disengage stunt? Against every NFL team. All 16 weeks. So Jake Long shouldnt be credited for those "blocks"

That's what you are saying. lol

85 to 90 percent of the time the LT is put on an island to block whatever LBer, DE, whatever rusher is coming off that edge.

In run blocking it is even EASIER to tell his assignment pending the running play, because the LT will identify and go after the guy lol

No, my intent is to show that people like GoCgiefs who trout out PFFs numbers on this have no clue. This has nothing to do with Long, I honestly have no clue what his numbers on PFF are.

his numbers awful, if you couldnt tell

fan perception about OTs is not the same as a position like QB, RB, or WR.

Albert has gotten little attention because the QB position has sucked the entire time he's been in the league. If he was protecting Manning's blindside he'd be one of the top LTs in the game.

Actually if they let him walk it's because they have a RT who filled in at LT and did a fantastic job (Martin) and Long is due big money. A team with as many holes as The Dolphins have can't afford to carry two quality LTs. Period.

QFT

so you're saying a team with HOLES like the Dolphins shouldnt keep Long

but a 2-14 with more holes than a french whore, in the Chiefs, should trade a 3rd rounder for him.

LOL

No that isn't what I am saying. So far you have been a consistent idiot in this thread...and this post didn't disappoint. My attack of the idea that you can tell 100% of the time who was supposed to block who and the exact breakdown of a play has NOTHING to do with Jake Long. At no point did I even infer that. Put away your jump to conclusions mat.

Was PFF wrong when they graded Long as the top LT in the game 3 years ago? LMAO

Dolphins have more holes than the Chiefs. We are far from airtight but our record comes from ONE glaring hole on offense and just horrendous coaching. If we don;t go ZBS and Albert is either hurt or asking for a ton of cash.. then yes a 3rd to guarantee signing Long is worth it in my book. That's a ton of "ifs" before we get to that point.

Dolphins have more holes than the Chiefs

that's it lol, I've read it all

If he was protecting the blind side of even a league average QB, he would get more recognition.

Bottom line, we already have a solid LT that we should re-sign. There is 0 reason to waste any draft picks on a position in which we already have solid starter.

Man you are all sorts of stupid. It isn;t about right/wrong. I can guess right too! It is when you try to trot out the NUMBERS that show how ignorant you are.

They may have been right, they may have been dead wrong. I'm surer Milkman will tell you that those numbers from 3 years ago are wrong because he received help or whatever... I disagree... but the fact is, PFF doesn't prove shit either way. You'll never see me trot out one of their subjective stats to try to back up shit. They do however have some OBJECTIVE stats that are worth using. (the same stats NFL teams actually pay them for) Oline rating just isn't one of them.

Nice.. I do approve! Winston better shut-up his fat-lip mouth and step-up his game or he'll be riding a disgusting bus back to some town in Texas!

IF he doesn't have a back issue and he doesn't try to price himself out of reach.. I agree.

I polled 10 of my very intelligent NFL friends though and they said we should replace Albert with Long.

Then leave. You're rather insufferable.

For someone with 4000+ posts you have a whole lot of stupid that I have somehow missed up to this point. Have you just not posted anything football related up until now?

well I dont usually talk to idiots that defend overrated LTs named Jake Long, so no

And again you go into troll mode. The point being, OUTSIDE OF KC FANS no one thinks Albert is anywhere near as good as you try to pass him off as. He is generally accepted to be above average... but not top tier.

As Hoover and Milkman point out, that could be because he protects shitty QBs... possibly.

He has never shown me anything to be excited over but he has only rarely shown me anything to get angry about either. There are 5 to 10 guys I'd rather have BUT it isn't a high priority upgrade for the team right now.

So because fans outside of KC don't think he's that good, we shouldn't re sign him?


Long is on the downside of his career, Albert is coming off his rookie deal. Unless we see that Albert's back is in that bad of shape, I see no reason not to sign him.

That isn't what he's saying.

I don't agree with him, but let's not argue a point that isn't being made.

No no no, I am just pointing out that people here have complete HOMERVISION regarding Albert. I have said we should sign him unless he wants crazy money. In that case, you make a play for someone like Long. (unless we stick to zone blocking)

As for the "downside" of his career... you do know that Long is a year YOUNGER right?

I'm just trying to get a grip on what he is saying.


Albert is coming off his rookie contract and is already, by his notions, a top 10 player at his position in the NFL.


Wouldn't that mean that he still has alot of time and ways to improve? I just don't think he can get past the Long/Michigan connection.

So we have homervision with Albert, but you don't with Long?


And Long is absolutely on the downside, he's had two injury riddled seasons. If a team is taht willing to part with a LT, who you say is a top 3 or 4 player at his position, shouldn't that raise a red flag?

Thank You.

It must KILL you that some of the people in this thread that have been vocally supporting Albert and therfore are technically on your side of the argument are such obvious morons. I've been trying to abuse them for ya but I don't really have the skills.

:D

He just cant accept that Brandon Albert is better than Jake Long, so every counter paints him in a corner as to why it is correct that Chiefs fans know their LT is a good NFL LT. Not top 15. Not top 8. But top 5. Easily.

I used to talk shit on Albert in 2010.

To say we just have homervision on him is false.

He has improved quite a bit, from an average player to a very good one, and other fans don't know shit because he's not a household name.

He'll get paid and you'll have to deal with it.

I have admitted many many times that I am completely 100% biased for Long. No question. I think he is easily a top 3 LT... but in reality he is probably between 4 and 8... but not in my mind.

You may be right regarding injuries.. I won't hazard a guess in that realm. It's a total crapshoot.

Again, Miami MIGHT be willing to part with him because Martin is a hell of a young LT with a massive upside who is a MUCH better fit for the blocking scheme they use AND is cheap cheap cheap.

I don't care how great a player is.. if he doesn't fit your scheme, he doesn't fit your scheme.. period.

Nothing to deal with. He is an above average LT and deserves to be paid as such. I fully expect a contract that makes him right around the 6th or 7th highest paid LT in the league... which is fine. Anything more and he better do some more serious improving to earn it.

Well, thats where we differ I guess. If I have a top 3 LT in the league, I would figure he could either fit any scheme, or I'd keep the current scheme he's a top 3 LT in.

Go coach Miami... you'd be an upgrade! I agree with you but Miami has problems.

He IS top 15.. you could even argue top 10 (you'd be wrong but I could see him eaking in there) but to say he is top 5 shows some serious football ignorance. He is top 5 in the AFC West! I'll give you that one!

I posted a link a few months back that had details to Duane Brown's new contract. It was far from outrageous and I'd expect Albert's numbers to be similar but with less guaranteed money.

I don't think that he or his agent will demand a contract that's equal to or greater than the best left tackle in the league.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=262462

No way he deserves a contract equal to Brown's but Brown's was a very reasonable deal so I wouldn't expect something drastically less either. Less guaranteed and 7.5-8 mil/year seems about right. So yeah I think you've got a pretty good bead on what he SHOULD get.

he's just as good as Duane Brown so why wouldnt he get a contract like that?

NO ONE CAN SAY FOR CERTAIN

GRADING OL PLAY IS A MYSTERY

Albert's been a multiple Pro Bowler? A 2nd team All-Pro and first team All Pro?

Uh, when?

Brown's younger, too.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
Bears special teams coach Dave Toub, one of the very best, has interviewed for ST job with KC and CAR. CHI interviewed him for HC job

I would give him WTF he wants to sign here.

Don't bother he thinks Albert is a TOP 3 LT. He's ****ing nuts.

Year Team G GS Pen Yds False Start Holding Sacks Allwd Yds
2008 KC 15 15 1 5 1 0 4.50 32.00
2009 KC 14 14 10 63 6 2 9.00 63.50
2010 KC 15 15 7 52 4 2 7.75 64.50
2011 KC 16 16 10 75 6 3 5.00 33.50
2012 KC 13 11 5 30 4 1 1.00 8.00

Totals 73 71 33 225 21 8 27.25 201.50

Kinda gotta move that "holding" column over to the right with your eyes.
So, 1 holding penalty and 1 sack this season in a contract year!
Holy smokes.

Source is from Hostedstats.inc great player site.

He also protects a good QB.

Look at the garbage Albert has been forced to protect.

It matters.

if you want to go by that guys source. Albert has allowed 27 sacks and Duane Brown has allowed 34.

And Brandon Albert has been playing with absolute dog shit QBs.

If Albert was even protecting a good NFL QB, he would be a notable name